Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800

Thanks, but for now, because I am still a beginner, I will stay where I am at. My teacher is helping me. I have OCD and without her, I wouldn't know when to move on to the next group of songs, and she has been helping me with other things. Because I started out as an adult, I noticed that I couldn't play with one hand soft and the other loud and I would scoot on the bench. I have been doing Hanon a lot and she made the recommendation to practice Hanon with one hand at a different dynamic level than the other and to stay seated on the bench. For now, she is okay. Also, I thought I was paying too much! Wow!!

I do have the University of Evansville, which is a music school for when I get to the Advanced Level.

I guess you haven't compared them yourself yet, because there is not the step change in feel that you're imagining. Many people prefer the Roland PHA action (interesting video here) - which also avoids many of the foibles of Kawai's wooden key actions, such as uneven spacing, rubbing, and clicking, which you can read about on these forums.


None of the pianos mentioned has a wood action (it you want that, you need to look at the Avant Grands, which are expensive, large, heavy, and need regulation and maintenance). But you don't really want that. Even Kawai has been replacing the wood actions of its acoustic grands with more reliable plastic and carbon fibre parts (to the ire of the Luddites).

Some of the DPs mentioned have wood keys, but if you think that makes a lot of difference, you should check out this beauty that someone recently posted. It has wood keys, but spring action so I guess it feels pretty unrealistic. That's not to say the new Kawais don't feel good - some vocal posters here think they're they best (and I own one myself, and like it), but wood keys don't affect the action per se, and won't make you a better pianist.

What really makes a big difference to the feel, more than you might expect, is the sound produced. What you perceive is mainly the force you're applying to the keys, and less the speed the keys are moving. So if you have a heavy touch setting, the keyboard really does feel heavier, as you have to press harder to get the expected tone. Another example would be how the keyboard feels different if you introduce latency. So the connection with the sound engine really is important.

As already said, you really need to try them for yourself. There is not really a wrong answer. I suggest leaving any preconceptions at the door, and getting the cheapest model that fulfils your requirements. There are quite a few RD-700NXes floating around on the used market, for example, for around 60% the price of a RD-800, which would be a much better buy for you than a new RD-800.

This is why PW is one of the best forums on the internet!

Occasionally some trolls will come along, posting misleading or contradictory information, but the vast majority of members are here to help others and simply enjoy discussing pianos.

James
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What about MP7 action RH2 vs Roland RD800 concert premium action?
If Rolands Supernatural sound is better, what about it's 128 polyphony vs Kawai's 256?
Also, on another note, when logging in to this site and clicking on the "remember me" button, when accessing your posts or messages, why do you have to log in again? Only when clicking on "remember me". You don't have to relog in if you don't click that box.

Which do you like better? They're both good. I much prefer the Roland PHAIII over Kawai RH. It is more decisive, lighter and just more pleasant to play. But that's one opinion, from the previous generation of Roland & Kawai Dps - lots of people actually prefer Kawai actions.



Again, you might not prefer Roland's sound to Kawai's. Best try them, or at least audition them online (though that doesn't tell you much compared to actually playing them - there is the feel/ sound combination factor to consider, too.)

Regarding the 128 vs 256 voices - probably you'd never notice the difference unless you were using the pianos sound engine to drive multi-track recording via midi. Then you would soon run out of voices.

But only for piano playing - maybe some of Debussy's 'ambient' typer pieces with lots and lots of sustain and ringing overtones might come close to 128 tones sounding at the same time....but I doubt it would make any differnce to what you hear. The piano sound, keyboard feel and the connection between the two is much, much more important.

Is the sound of the mp7 much better than the new Yamaha p255? I like the Yamaha p255, but it lacks the 3rd sensor. How much closer to a real piano is the sound and action of the mp7 vs p255? Is the build quality of Kawai digitals as good as Yamaha? Thanks guys, this is fun!

just to show again how subjective this is... having compared the MP10 with the FP7F (I not so distant predecessor, in a way, of the RD800), I would pick the MP10 for sound and the Roland for action!

As for the sensor question, the third sensor is primarily useful for rapid trills, and quiet-ish same-note repetitions. But even that is assuming all else is equal which, comparing across brands, won't be the case. There are 2-sensor actions which you may find more playable overall than other companies' 3-sensor actions.

I guess I'll chime in. I have a Roland FP-7F and am an advanced pianist.

I picked the Roland because I had played some of the really high end Kawai digital pianos with cabinets and such, and to me they weren't as close to a real piano as a Roland V-Piano, which was supposed to be close to a FP-7F.

That said you're picking between 2 good choices. I think the features you absolutely need are the proper sensor tech (not the 6 level ones that came on the FP-4 and MP6 for example) and variable damper and una corda pedal. All the nicer actions with the sophisticated touch sensors come with "escapement" but it's useless, and as far as I know there aren't any digital pianos other than the Yamaha Avantgrand that have a true working escapement of any kind (which is a problem when you want to play certain things). Perhaps the PHA-4 and other new actions have extra sensors to try and emulate an escapement but I haven't tried them.

Go to a store and play some!

Kawai is built well and has a nice warranty and great customer support (I had a small issue with my MP10 and they actually send someone to my house to fix it).

The third sensor is for advanced players used to a grand piano. Most upright pianos I've tried are not able to replicate what you can do with the third sensor.

There is a Youtube video comparing the MP10 and the RD800. They go through a few piano tones, and some I like the Roland and some the Kawai. About 30 seconds in front of the Roland was all I needed to know I didn't like the action.

I am not able to cause any note cut-out with 128 note polyphony, even just messing around with my foot on the pedal and lots of notes played. It was not long ago that 128 polyphony was huge. The MP10 was arguably one of the best DP's on the planet a month ago (now there's the MP11).

The Kawai sound is more natural throughout the entire keyboard than the Yamaha. Yamaha has some nice tones but still many sound 'fake' or computer generated. I don't get that sensation nearly as much on the Kawai.

I love my Kawai. If I bought it without ever playing it, I'd be thrilled. If I bought the Roland without ever playing it, I'd likely return it if possible. This is just to show how subjective the feel is.

Wood keys in and of themselves are not the biggest factor. But pair wood keys with a realistic pivoting action (same as on an acoustic piano), the overall feeling is a lot nicer than the plastic keys with hinges. When the key hits the bottom of the bed, the wood damps out the vibrations in a very natural way, well since wood is natural. It feels different than plastic. Kawai's plastic keys are by no means bad, but the wood keyed action just feels really sweet.

Also there is no clicking, rubbing, or uneven spacing on my MP10. If there was, the action is fully regulate-able by a piano technician, or anyone who doesn't mind opening up a digital piano (which is very easy to do on the MP10). It uses all real piano parts in the action. The letoff sensation is adjustable, the key stroke is adjustable, everything is tunable like on an acoustic. it uses real wood keys, real piano felt, adjustable capstans, etc etc.

And it's still a problem on the Avantgrand. They screwed us their sensor placement so badly that rapid repetition is terrible. There are many DPs that do repetition much better than the AG. So even though the action IS physically doing a rapid repeat, the actual sounds don't trigger when it happens. I was most disappointed by that. It was confirmed to me when I saw a YT video of Cyprien Katsaris trying to do a tremolo on the AG and it was a disaster. Even he couldn't do it! Any action is only as good as the sensors.

For me I think it´s down to rd800 or kawai m7 too.
I tried the rd800 today and I liked it, It´ll probably take a few weeks until I´ll be able to try the Mp7.

+ For the RD800 is the XLR:s.
-is the size and price.

Can you layer 4 sounds on the mp7 as you can on RD800?

Yes.

I went to St. Louis, Missouri yesterday with my brother and went to the zoo and they happened to have a Kawai dealership in Shiloh, Illinois, right before we got to St. Louis. They had all the grands and the uprights and most of the digitals out on display. I got to play the RH, RH2, RM3, and the GF and even compare them to the real grands. Although, this was all just for fun - I do eventually want to upgrade my p155 for the touch and tone - I quickly came to realize I am too much of a beginner and not even close to being to the point where I can truly evaluate a digital piano, as far as the touch goes. I have been listening to classical guitar and piano for many, many years and have the ear, but that is about it. The RH, RH2 felt very cheap like a Casio, and the RM3 did not have the proper weighting in the bass keys as compared to their grands. The GF felt okay, but again, I do believe I need to listen to other people's thoughts and not rely on my own. The string resonance was a joke on the digitals as compared to the real thing. But, they could have been adjusted and messed up. I need to get another piano fairly soon because the p155 does not have the 3-pedal unit and the one pedal slides around and I am getting tired of it. I want the p255 because of the upgraded features and the 3-pedal unit but I hate that you have to screw the keyboard in to the stand. Just seems cheap, and the pedal unit is all plastic and cheap. I was looking at the Arius models and they don't have the sound or specs as the new p255 and even the entry-level Clp525 does not have the string resonance of the p255. A thought: What if I bought the p255 and the Yamaha lg800 stand. Is there a 3-pedal unit that I can use that will work with the p255 perfectly and offer the half-pedal effect and will install without too much trouble?

Do you need all 3 pedals? Or can you get away with 2?

The M-Audio SP-2 is a decent pedal that feels like a real piano pedal. It's $30 or less and is heavy with a nice rubber bottom that doesn't slide. There are SUSTAIN and AUX pedal ports on the 155 so you can make 2 work.

Is the keybed on the mp7 the same as any other kawai-piano? If you have been playin that, how would it compare to the rd800?

That's disappointing Hopefully by the time I'm looking into an Avantgrand (I want one someday for practice), they fix that. I feel like if I could adjust the action geometry slightly on the Roland PHA-III it would be able to actually play tremolos properly after I get used to it, but of course I can't.

Yes, the 'Responsive Hammer 2' (RH2) keyboard action is also found on the ES7 and CN34/CN24 models.

Kind regards,
James
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If there is someone here who have tried both the rh2 keybed and the rd800, please feel free to describe the difference if you can?
I know I must try it on my own but I don't have a kawai dealer nearby.

I only played the RD800 briefly in a store - it seemed a bit lighter than the RD700GX and I dont remember it having that thunk at the bottom of travel.
Compared to the very good one on the Yamy CP4 I prefer the keybed on the MP7.Thats probably due to the fact that it seems well conected to the sound engine. It just seems to not get my attention when Im playing and thats a good thing.
Playing the Electric Grand preset and it feels like the keyboard takes on the character of the original instrument.
Ditto with Rhodes sounds.
Its easy to play fast but it also with accuracy - to quote myself its "crisp and responsive".