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#2262668 - 04/16/14 04:03 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
I must say, caters, your posts are rather amusing if nothing else.
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Polyphonist

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#2262675 - 04/16/14 04:18 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: Vid]
Plowboy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2386
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Vid

Ouch!!! I know someone who is the pianist equivalent of this woman.


I wish you'd leave me out of this!
_________________________
Gary

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#2262678 - 04/16/14 04:22 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Sorry, Plowboy, that joke's taken. grin
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Polyphonist

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#2262710 - 04/16/14 05:57 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: caters]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5423
Originally Posted By: caters
I once saw in a list of videos 2 pianos 16 hands. It is impossible to have 4 players on 1 piano so it is impossible to have 2 pianos 16 hands.


I've no idea of what you're on about in your second paragraph, so I've deleted it wink .

But in case you're interested, the world record for the largest number of musicians playing the same instrument simultaneously has recently been broken, in Manchester, England. Sixteen pianists joined forces to perform Ticcatoccatina, a five-minute work for 32 hands on one piano by Tom Harrold.

Check that out, baby! grin
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2262763 - 04/16/14 07:46 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: bennevis]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: caters
I once saw in a list of videos 2 pianos 16 hands. It is impossible to have 4 players on 1 piano so it is impossible to have 2 pianos 16 hands.


I've no idea of what you're on about in your second paragraph, so I've deleted it wink .

But in case you're interested, the world record for the largest number of musicians playing the same instrument simultaneously has recently been broken, in Manchester, England. Sixteen pianists joined forces to perform Ticcatoccatina, a five-minute work for 32 hands on one piano by Tom Harrold.

Check that out, baby! grin


How is it possible for 16 pianists to be playing on the same piano? I mean I can see how 16 pianists can play on 8, 16, or any number between those but 16 pianists playing 1 piano seems impossible.


Edited by caters (04/16/14 07:46 PM)

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#2263177 - 04/17/14 06:03 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: wr]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 597
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: wr
But about your comment - isn't it at least possible that someone else might find it musically interesting enough to attempt it, rather than just because it's "unplayable"? I rather like it in this very playable player piano performance, which was made by the person Ligeti entrusted it to (the sound quality of the video is not so great, unfortunately).

Didn't sound too bad in the beginning; in the end it became a bit repetitive. But then, so are lots of Bach preludes from the well tempered piano.

As for a living pianist attempting this: I was a bit reminded of Depardieu playing the piano in "Green Card". I guess someone could try to hammer a piano in a certain way, and lots of people couldn't tell the difference with the Ligeti.

Green Card scene (playing starts at ca. 1:50)
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Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
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#2263179 - 04/17/14 06:10 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: wr]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 597
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: wr
And anyway, topics about "the most" whatever are inane by definition, since there is no way to determine "hardest", "greatest", "saddest", "best", etc.

To paraphrase a German football coach: The hardest piece is always the next one. wink
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2263563 - 04/18/14 02:29 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
The contrabass and Double bass are two names for the same exact instrument. Playing range = written range which for most instruments = sounding range but for things like the piccolo and contrabass it doesn't. The contrabass can play down to c in the great octave with an 8vb written but it sounds as if it is playing an octave lower than written. Thus my reasoning towards extended pianos.

As to the number of pianos needed to play Mozart's symphony no. 40 I realized that I don't need 14 pianists on 7 pianos. I can actually have 3 treble and 1 bass instrument per piano thus lowering it down to 4 pianos and 7 pianists but that is still a septet. Why my reasoning towards 3 treble and 1 bass per piano? Well there are fewer bass instruments than treble instruments in the orchestra and that ratio is approximately 3 treble : 1 bass.

This ratio and the 4 instruments per piano means that I can have all the notes of a quartet as a duet for 1 piano 4 hands


Edited by caters (04/18/14 02:33 PM)

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#2263568 - 04/18/14 02:34 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: caters]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
The contrabass can play down to c in the great octave with an 8vb written but it sounds as if it is playing an octave lower than written. Thus my reasoning towards extended pianos.

grin
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Polyphonist

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#2263638 - 04/18/14 04:12 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1814
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Beam me up, Scotty...
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"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2263736 - 04/18/14 07:15 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Here's a sample from Ligeti etude 14-A, which is so hard it hasn't been played by a human. The tempo marking is very precise, half-note = 105.



Also, I think it would be unfaithful to the score to play it quietly, but that might just be my own personal interpretation. Try playing a bit of it.


8f's? Not possible unless you have a whole orchestra playing mezzo forte or something. Nobody could hit the piano hard enough for it without muddying the notes into a dissonant chord or worse, breaking a piano. For me what sounds forte is mezzo forte but what sounds piano is piano. Somehow my ears or my brain have the louder dynamics displaced so that mezzo forte sounds forte and forte sounds fortissimo. I am not getting deaf of these loud sounds like how Beethoven got deaf, just they are displaced so that there is a smaller gap between mezzo piano and forte than there should be. I have seen in musescore if you look at the dynamics window they have everything from 6 p's to 6 f's. Now how can somebody ever hear 6 p's on the piano or not get deaf from 6 f's on the piano.

Beethoven I do beleive not only got deaf of higher frequencies first but also of louder dynamics first.


Edited by caters (04/18/14 07:26 PM)

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#2263738 - 04/18/14 07:16 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Here's a sample from Ligeti etude 14-A, which is so hard it hasn't been played by a human. The tempo marking is very precise, half-note = 105.



Also, I think it would be unfaithful to the score to play it quietly, but that might just be my own personal interpretation. Try playing a bit of it.


8f's? Not possible unless you have a whole orchestra playing mezzo forte or something. Nobody could hit the piano hard enough for it without muddying the notes into a dissonant chord.

grin
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Polyphonist

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#2263766 - 04/18/14 08:07 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1652
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: caters
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Here's a sample from Ligeti etude 14-A, which is so hard it hasn't been played by a human. The tempo marking is very precise, half-note = 105.



Also, I think it would be unfaithful to the score to play it quietly, but that might just be my own personal interpretation. Try playing a bit of it.


8f's? Not possible unless you have a whole orchestra playing mezzo forte or something. Nobody could hit the piano hard enough for it without muddying the notes into a dissonant chord.

grin

Break the piano on the first chord and that will solve the problem of playing the rest of the song
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2263768 - 04/18/14 08:09 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
A wise solution.
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Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2263801 - 04/18/14 08:59 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
breaking a piano is not wise. What is wise is letting an orchestra play this Ligeti Etude 14a instead of a pianist because orchestras can get much louder than pianos can.


Edited by caters (04/18/14 09:00 PM)

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#2263806 - 04/18/14 09:03 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5423
Originally Posted By: caters
breaking a piano is not wise. What is wise is letting an orchestra play this instead of a pianist because orchestras can get much louder than pianos can.

http://youtu.be/9aO6_ONXp-Y
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2263812 - 04/18/14 09:06 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
breaking a piano is not wise.

grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2263892 - 04/19/14 01:07 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1652
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: caters
breaking a piano is not wise.

grin

Polyphonist's posts are getting shorter and shorter. Soon he is going to post comments without any writing at all.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2263895 - 04/19/14 01:13 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Perhaps it's likely. But for some reason I feel the urge to respond to all caters' posts with the grin emoticon.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2264040 - 04/19/14 11:14 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6223
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: caters
breaking a piano is not wise.

grin

Polyphonist's posts are getting shorter and shorter. Soon he is going to post comments without any writing at all.


!deednI |
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2264256 - 04/19/14 07:14 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
Ligeti's etude no.14 is written for pianists, and the 14-A version is for player piano (if i'm not mistaken).

If we're talking about hard "songs", Christopher O'Riley's Radiohead transcriptions are insanely difficult.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
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Franck - Violin Sonata

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#2264335 - 04/19/14 10:06 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Kuanpiano]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7979
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Ligeti's etude no.14 is written for pianists, and the 14-A version is for player piano (if i'm not mistaken).



You are not mistaken. 14-A was published for player piano, with a live performer being "ad lib." option (which might well have been a bit of drollery by Mr. Ligeti, IMO).

The issue of dynamics is a non-issue. Dynamics within a solo piece are scaled to the instrument on which the music is being played. If a composer takes poetic license with them, that's a consideration, too, and literal-mindedness becomes a serious liability.

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#2264505 - 04/20/14 09:36 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Kuanpiano]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5325
Loc: McAllen, TX
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
If we're talking about hard "songs", Christopher O'Riley's Radiohead transcriptions are insanely difficult.


They're hard, but not impossible. Most of the stuff in there is pretty natural after you practice it for a while. They're a blast to play, though!
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#2264700 - 04/20/14 07:51 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.

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#2264711 - 04/20/14 08:14 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7979
Originally Posted By: caters
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.


How old are you?

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#2264713 - 04/20/14 08:16 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: wr]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: caters
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.

How old are you?

A question I have, with difficulty, long refrained from asking. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2264716 - 04/20/14 08:19 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
Originally Posted By: caters
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.

Sorry caters, but decibels work logarithmically, the piano/forte scale works proportionately; one does not map to the other without some scaling factor, i.e. the performer. Um...as such, a piece could be written with a thousand fortissimos and be possible to play with a single finger. I could be wrong...but I don't *think* I am...
Xxx
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#2264752 - 04/20/14 09:52 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6223
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: caters
a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears.


You have no idea what you are talking about. The equation you just advanced would suggest that 10 instruments playing at 100 decibels would be the equivalent of 1000 decibels. In reality it would be about 110 decibels.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#2264764 - 04/20/14 10:13 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 191
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: caters
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.

How old are you?

A question I have, with difficulty, long refrained from asking. grin


I am 15

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#2264774 - 04/20/14 10:32 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7707
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: caters
8 f's is impossible with a piano. The loudest I can get is 3 f's. forte is always the same number of decibels no matter what instrument and so a whole orchestra playing forte wounds like x decibels(where x is the number of decibels in forte) * number of instruments and so would hurt your ears. That is how come not every instrument plays forte in an orchestra.

How old are you?

A question I have, with difficulty, long refrained from asking. grin

I am 15

I'm surprised. My guess was about half that. wink
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Polyphonist

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