Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds
Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds with Emphasis on the Piano
Learn More

or
Buy This Book on Amazon.com
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Pianoteq
Who's Online
149 registered (ajames, accordeur, 38 invisible), 1828 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 6 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6
Topic Options
#2264775 - 04/20/14 10:39 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Piano Doug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 187
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
I am 15


So you are not a stem cell scientist, as it states in your profile?

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#2264784 - 04/20/14 11:02 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Piano Doug]
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1991
Loc: South Jersey
Deleted. Not liking it when I'm being rude or snarky.


Edited by DameMyra (04/20/14 11:04 PM)
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA

Top
#2264786 - 04/20/14 11:07 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Piano Doug]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: caters
I am 15


So you are not a stem cell scientist, as it states in your profile?


not for real but I often pretend to be one.

Top
#2264787 - 04/20/14 11:07 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: caters
I am 15

So you are not a stem cell scientist, as it states in your profile?

not for real but I often pretend to be one.

Things are becoming clearer by the minute.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2264789 - 04/20/14 11:29 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4978
Loc: USA
Troll caught.

Top
#2264794 - 04/21/14 12:01 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: JoelW]
Piano Doug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 187
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Troll caught.


What do we do with it?

Top
#2264795 - 04/21/14 12:03 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4978
Loc: USA
grin

Top
#2264796 - 04/21/14 12:03 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Piano Doug]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Troll caught.


What do we do with it?

Who can say? Why don't we have a vote.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2264811 - 04/21/14 01:46 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: DameMyra]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1924
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Deleted. Not liking it when I'm being rude or snarky.

Yeah, I should probably edit my own posts this way more often.........
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

Top
#2264813 - 04/21/14 01:54 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: JoelW]
caters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Columbus, ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Troll caught.


I am not a troll. Just because my profile says I am something when I am not does not mean I am trolling. and just because I often post things that you say are wrong(not as in wrong to post but as in there is a mistake in the post) doesn't mean I am trolling either.

Polyphonist on the other hand is a troll.


Edited by caters (04/21/14 01:55 AM)

Top
#2264822 - 04/21/14 02:49 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5506
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
I'm surprised. My guess was about half that. wink
LOL, but a tiny bit insulting...

Caters: Relax, try emailing the stuff you're about to post to yourself (previewing won't work with you I think) to check the validity of what you're saying

Remember that this forum, unlike most online forums is frequented by older people (I'm 36 for example)...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#2264842 - 04/21/14 05:47 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Nikolas]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8078
Originally Posted By: Nikolas

Caters: Relax, try emailing the stuff you're about to post to yourself (previewing won't work with you I think) to check the validity of what you're saying


I don't think he cares - he just wants to argue, instead of learning.

Being a kid can be tough, you know, and issues about authority rear their ugly heads, which is what I think is happening here. Kid just can't deal with the fact that people actually know stuff and have the authoritative knowledge required to say "this is how it is".

Even if I'm an old geezer more than four times his age (I forgot if we established that he's a "he" - sorry if I got that wrong), I still remember some of that phase. Ick...in some ways, it never ends.

Top
#2264845 - 04/21/14 06:31 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5506
Loc: Europe
I don't know, wr... I used to be argumentative when I was about 10, but at 15 I had matured enough to be sure to shut up when I didn't know something. I keep doing that! grin
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#2264854 - 04/21/14 07:12 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Nikolas]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8078
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I don't know, wr... I used to be argumentative when I was about 10, but at 15 I had matured enough to be sure to shut up when I didn't know something. I keep doing that! grin


In the US, 15 seems to be the new 10 (or younger). It's really kind of weird.

On the other hand, there's this whole bizarre thing happening about treating kids as if they are somehow equivalent to much older people in their life experience. It's also really kind of weird.

Top
#2264886 - 04/21/14 09:28 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: wr]
prout Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 980
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I don't know, wr... I used to be argumentative when I was about 10, but at 15 I had matured enough to be sure to shut up when I didn't know something. I keep doing that! grin


In the US, 15 seems to be the new 10 (or younger). It's really kind of weird.

On the other hand, there's this whole bizarre thing happening about treating kids as if they are somehow equivalent to much older people in their life experience. It's also really kind of weird.





I was argumentative at 10, and still at 15. And still at 64. One of the best ways to learn is to argue, especially if you argue both points of view.

Many of Caters' arguments follow a line of reasoning to its logical, absurd extreme. This is an excellent way of understanding a problem.

The discussion of dynamic range and decibels, and how what would be perceived as a change in loudness for 100 instruments playing as opposed to 10, and how that would relate to a dynamic marking was not thoroughly researched. Increasing the power output of an acoustic system by a factor of 10 does indeed increase the decibel reading by 10, so if the measured level for 10 violins was 100db, then 100 violins would measure 110 db. However, our ears don't hear the increase as 10 times louder, we would perceive the volume as about twice as loud.

So the question- Is ff twice a loud as f ? - Is fff twice as loud as ff ? Do we care, or, as in most music, do we terrace our dynamics as is Bach's music, to be perceived simply as louder or softer than the preceding section, or play from as soft as is possible to as loud as is possible as in Chopin?

Top
#2264890 - 04/21/14 09:40 AM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: prout]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 582
Originally Posted By: prout

The discussion of dynamic range and decibels, and how what would be perceived as a change in loudness for 100 instruments playing as opposed to 10, and how that would relate to a dynamic marking was not thoroughly researched. Increasing the power output of an acoustic system by a factor of 10 does indeed increase the decibel reading by 10, so if the measured level for 10 violins was 100db, then 100 violins would measure 110 db. However, our ears don't hear the increase as 10 times louder, we would perceive the volume as about twice as loud.


FWIW, doubling the number of instruments, assuming they're all playing exactly the same, will increase the dB by 3 (measured in SPL). So if 10 violins is 100 dB, 20 violins would be 103 dB, 40 violins would be 106 dB etc.
_________________________
"In opera, there is always too much singing" -Debussy

Top
#2265070 - 04/21/14 07:45 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: prout]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8078
Originally Posted By: prout
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I don't know, wr... I used to be argumentative when I was about 10, but at 15 I had matured enough to be sure to shut up when I didn't know something. I keep doing that! grin


In the US, 15 seems to be the new 10 (or younger). It's really kind of weird.

On the other hand, there's this whole bizarre thing happening about treating kids as if they are somehow equivalent to much older people in their life experience. It's also really kind of weird.





I was argumentative at 10, and still at 15. And still at 64. One of the best ways to learn is to argue, especially if you argue both points of view.



Gawd, not another one...oh, well, my "Ignore user" button still works, should it come to that.

It would be lovely if any learning seemed to be taking place with this kid, but I haven't noticed much. For example, I indicated two ways of how the dynamics in the Ligeti piece can be correctly read, but he simply ignored them and kept hammering on with his absurd nonsense.

Quote:


The discussion of dynamic range and decibels, and how what would be perceived as a change in loudness for 100 instruments playing as opposed to 10, and how that would relate to a dynamic marking was not thoroughly researched. Increasing the power output of an acoustic system by a factor of 10 does indeed increase the decibel reading by 10, so if the measured level for 10 violins was 100db, then 100 violins would measure 110 db. However, our ears don't hear the increase as 10 times louder, we would perceive the volume as about twice as loud.

So the question- Is ff twice a loud as f ? - Is fff twice as loud as ff ? Do we care, or, as in most music, do we terrace our dynamics as is Bach's music, to be perceived simply as louder or softer than the preceding section, or play from as soft as is possible to as loud as is possible as in Chopin?



The dynamic indications in piano music aren't about absolute, measurable levels of volume. Anyone who has played classical music for more than a short while should know that.

Top
#2265074 - 04/21/14 07:57 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: wr]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
The dynamic indications in piano music aren't about absolute, measurable levels of volume. Anyone who has played classical music for more than a short while should know that.

Right. Everything is relative and up for interpretive judgement. To try to assign an exact decibel volume to a dynamic is as ridiculous as trying to assign an exact BPM to a tempo marking.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2265104 - 04/21/14 09:30 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: wr]
Piano Doug Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 187
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: wr
It would be lovely if any learning seemed to be taking place with this kid, but I haven't noticed much. For example, I indicated two ways of how the dynamics in the Ligeti piece can be correctly read, but he simply ignored them and kept hammering on with his absurd nonsense.



Yes, and despite a number of posters trying to correct his mistaken belief about the range of the double bass, he continues to harp on about the need for an extended range piano for transcriptions involving the bass.

Top
#2265105 - 04/21/14 09:32 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
And the need for a ridiculous amount of pianos to give a rendition of a Mozart symphony, which he insists uses notes down to 32-foot C. ha
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2265113 - 04/21/14 10:03 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: caters]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19731
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: caters
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Troll caught.


I am not a troll. Just because my profile says I am something when I am not does not mean I am trolling. and just because I often post things that you say are wrong(not as in wrong to post but as in there is a mistake in the post) doesn't mean I am trolling either.
You are 100% correct.

The real problem at PW are the posters who frequently write nasty, mean spirited, or arrogant posts. Or the posters that use PW for endless back and forth arguments about the most trivial matters possible.

Top
#2265115 - 04/21/14 10:09 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19731
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: caters
]
I am 15

I'm surprised. My guess was about half that. wink
So incredibly obnoxious and mean spirited.

Top
#2265116 - 04/21/14 10:11 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
The Forum Policeman is on the scene.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2265144 - 04/21/14 11:47 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1924
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: wr
The dynamic indications in piano music aren't about absolute, measurable levels of volume. Anyone who has played classical music for more than a short while should know that.

Right. Everything is relative and up for interpretive judgement. To try to assign an exact decibel volume to a dynamic is as ridiculous as trying to assign an exact BPM to a tempo marking.

You are right of course, but all the same I am going to look down on any performance that doesn't end with at least two broken piano strings.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

Top
#2265145 - 04/21/14 11:48 PM Re: The hardest piano piece ever written [Re: phantomFive]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
What if I break all the strings? Do I get a prize?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2266140 - 04/23/14 10:32 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
T.M.E. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/14
Posts: 5
Hamelin's Circus Gallop!
But the most difficult posisble pieces probably would be Busoni's piano concerto and one of Prokofiev's.... probably his second.
Some people say Rach 3, Tchaikovsky 1 or Brahms 2 but I disagree...
I find the most difficult pieces to play are ones that you don't enjoy.

Top
#2266145 - 04/23/14 10:38 PM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: Polyphonist]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1924
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
What if I break all the strings? Do I get a prize?

You win my utmost praise and respect for any song where you accomplish that.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

Top
#2266303 - 04/24/14 06:59 AM Re: The hardest song ever written [Re: phantomFive]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 854
Loc: UK, Brighton
I've heard opus clavicembalisticum can be quite difficult if you've not warmed up properly. Finnissy's English Country Tunes is also quite tricky, so I've heard, and his The History of Photography in Sound has a couple of spots of bother. Frankly, um, a lot more difficult than anything I've discovered of the composers thus far mentioned...Ligeti's etudes can be made harder by increasing the tempo laugh
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Top
Page 6 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
NAMM Show 2015 Follow Up!
-------------------

Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The Spiritual Nature of Jazz
by Dfrankjazz
3 minutes 54 seconds ago
Is This Possible to Do? - Realtime Accompaniment
by newbert
27 minutes 36 seconds ago
Signed Steinway Grand at NAMM
by Piano World
28 minutes 40 seconds ago
Any other albums like these?
by Virtuosity
49 minutes 56 seconds ago
Kawai: new CN25 or used CA51?
by Bellicapelli
Today at 02:07 PM
Forum Stats
77915 Members
42 Forums
161033 Topics
2365579 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission