Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Piano Tuning DIYers

I just byed a new piana. I droped a qaurter between them black an white things and it wont play. Ken I fix it meself? I'm gud with dogs.

(Actually, I think Chris was kidding)

Kidding? Real tuners use PCs, but they shouldn't need them.

As a matter of fact, why do they need signs at all? Just give them an ETD and explain to them it's just like GPS.

What's a good tuning program to load onto a GPS?

I once tried to tune a piano with a PC but it chipped the key fronts something awful and they are heavy!

Use the mouse, not the cpu!

I'll just say this. My own DIY tunings with Tunelab are streets ahead of the last 2 'professional tuners' (obtained from small ads in the local paper) I paid to tune it.

But it's never sounded like it used to when my friend Richard (an experienced professional tuner) used to tune it before he sadly passed away many years ago.

Sally,

I enjoyed your two videos. Just a suggestion though it would have been better if your sound engineer had turned off the automatic gain (and reverb?) when the voice mic was live.

Perhaps off topic in this thread but as it was an item of your second video I ask you this. How is sustain changed by hammer felt conditioning? Are all the partials not sounding with equal relative volume regardless of felt condition?

Ian (newbie tuning own piano)

Real tuners need to be able to hear. Anyone seriously think that after 2-3 hours of heavy banging for a high level tuning, that a technician is able to hear subtleties in a tuning? That is non-sense: either mentally or physically, the ears fatigue.

I use earplugs, an ETD, and bang the piano into submission until it surrenders. ONLY then--with fresh ears--do I take out my earplugs make subtle adjustments as an aural tuner until the tuning is something truly very special. Tuning for stability, without an ETD, is unhealthy and dangerous!!!

Well, I dunno . . . I've tuned 18 pianos in one day (didn't do any the next). That may be excessive and I wouldn't vouch for the quality of the last one or two beyond being adequate. But, 4,5,6 per day? Doesn't wear out my ears.

In my awareness the whole "ear fatigue" concept is not well supported from a scientific/biological standpoint. Eardrums continue to vibrate in response to the surrounding air and nerves continue to fire. It makes about as much sense to me as saying your eyes wear out after a few hours.

Of course, common sense must prevail. Ear plugs are a good thing and it would be a bad idea to try tuning a piano after running a planer or being by a jet engine without hearing protection. But in my experience in the broad spectrum of "normal" ear usage, fatigue is a non-issue.

Beemer, the softer the hammers are, the longer the hammers will stay in contact with the strings. In the melodic section, for example, the frequencies are so fast that the hammer is ALSO acting as a damper: longer contact times dampen more of the higher partials, thus changing the overall spectrum and volume output.

LOL...that happens TOO! Ever been to Tokyo?!? After a few hours of exposure to so many crazy lights, I always feel like I am moments away from dropping into a light induced seizure!

In all seriousness, exposure to sound detail and/or many new sights will cause fatigue. Whether this is mental or physiological doesn't really matter that much to me--people experience/suffer from it all the time.

...and, BTW, 18 pianos in one day is crazy; perhaps it is time for an assistant! ;-)

A443, do you beat the piano because it is faster ?

I wasdoing so more or less BUT The stronger the piano is played at tuning moment the less the high range partials are present

Indeed playing firmy is interesting. But I tend to replace with more often playing that provide enough energy.

I do not experiment any lowering then.

I find it very difficult to go from a high compromis tuning (ET obtained by computation) and a more sensitive tuning. The ETD install the tuning iin straight rails not leaving much leeway up or down.
In the end I can hear it as "" too perfect" because intervals are tempered too much (all) without a preference given to a more sparkling resonance but a smooth compromize all along.

It change slightly the way you listen in the end in my opinion.

It is for the better when you come from an approximative tuning but then to get back to some humanity, I believe other means can be used.

Pianist say things as "never was tuned so good" when a good tuner with VT ETD tune their piano . But that is so much evened that it sound a little like a perfect architecture, the brillancy seem to be the same everywhere so some adperities may be welcome.

Not to say it is lifeless but the tuning scheme layed on the piano is too much perceived (opposed to ttuning with the help of yhe instrument natural consonances.).

A huge security however with concert work indeed.

But for some reason the ETD is always late of the ear and force you to slox down and listen late in the tone.

Btw you did not mention +0+ in your lidt of unison.
A few tests I made showed me that it takes less than 30 seconds of play to a perfect 000 to switch to that shape naturally. (At a lesser level than if installed purposedly, but plucked strings show that clearly as may do an ETD if you try.

Ever experiment that way ?

Regards

Well, I still don't know exactly what kind of small pocket PC to get for my tuning program... my lap top is fine, but just big and bulky.

As far as my Yamaha C7 that Sally Phillips tuned for me over a year ago, the tuning is still fantastic and holding up well, even with my oldies rock-n-roll style pounding! All I've had to do is clean up a few wayward unisons on a few notes due to some temperature/humidity drifting.

Sally really knows her stuff, and she gave me a few lessons on setting the tuning pin and doing some action regulation. After she finished tuning my piano I played a little Jerry Lee Lewis style boogie-woogie and she said she has tuned for Jerry Lee Lewis before... as well as Jimmy Swaggart and Stevie Wonder and other big-name artist and music celebrities. I told Sally she made me feel like a celebrity!

My hat is off to you pros (particularly Sally Phillips) who really know what you are doing!

Now, what was that about a stupid DIYer question?

Rick

I don't know what tuning program you're using, but I use Tunelab on a 10" Android tablet. Works great, and the tablet has 8-10 hours of battery life. You could use a smaller tablet too, which are pretty cheap these days. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, particularly if you're only using it for the tuning program.

Very good post, thanks for the link

I have to listen on better equipment , but the tonal difference between the 2 different pianos is very well perceived.

The NY model is brassy and immediately powerful as all impregnated hammers.Not sure the attack can be managed as much as with more "standard hammers" but I like the output, certainly not for any kind of music.

Dont you feel that using an ETD while making the usual aural tests (is less easy if the ETD recognize notes) is like walking on a tight rope but with a barrier left and right,perfectly secure.
But is not it making your tuning more neutral ?

Regards

Banging a piano into submission in the cause of stability is typical of an inexperienced tuner in my opinion. There is absolutely no need for this brutality if one is able to set a wrestpin, and much kinder to the poor customer that has to listen while the tuning is being done.

I couldn't disagree with you more!

For starters: what inexperienced technician naturally bangs on a piano like that?!? LOL...that was a ridiculous statement: no inexperienced technicians do that naturally! Every student I have ever worked with has had to be taught when and how much to bang to ensure stability--if you don't bang, and the pianist does, well...then, you are probably used to unisons slipping in a concert. At the very least, banging is insurance!

Besides, there are two issues at work: 1) setting the tuning pin, and 2) rendering the string segments to ensure they are equalised, and thus, remain stable with playing (i.e., playing the piano should not make it go out of tune; it often does, because the inexperienced technician doesn't take the time to render the string segments). But this all also depends on the design of the piano, and how much the tuning has moved, etc. However, once the tuning is there, and nothing renders down/up anymore, then there is no further reason to bang. Everything is relative...