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#2269757 - 05/01/14 06:34 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
JeanieA Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 503
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Is today your anniversary, Brian? Double congratulations!

I've been married just a few years longer but never have I gotten an anniversary gift like this! Do you know the Anniversary Waltz? Very apropos, for BOTH occasions!
_________________________
Collector of sheet music I can't play.

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#2269893 - 05/01/14 10:23 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: JeanieA]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Sounds like I'd better learn it smile

BTW: After getting a few private posts we have turned the piano around 180 degrees so that the keyboard now faces out to the room. I think this will result in a better look, better sound, and the bench will never be in the way of folks walking around the piano to get to my office.

I'll re-post pics of the room tomorrow morning.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2270117 - 05/02/14 10:25 AM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Updated photo with the Piano's final room placement. Thanks to my private "helper" (He knows who he is!)

_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2271987 - 05/06/14 05:04 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 190
Loc: Usa
Brian, I'm curious, were you supposed to have caster cups for the wheels? Did you intentionally opt not to have them put on?

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#2272025 - 05/06/14 06:43 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Grandman]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Grandman;

Because the piano sits on a carpet already, I was advised by my dealer that casters were not necessary either for stability or sound quality. Plus, he said having casters would make it much more difficult to move the piano.

Well boy was he right! Not only have I had to move the piano a bit here and there for room placement a few times, I'm having a floor outlet installed under the piano (for the piano lamp) and overhead lights as well. So it will be moving again.

Of course, if you have hardwood floors or a very nice area rug (like my teacher has) casters are a very good idea.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2272037 - 05/06/14 07:28 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Brian,

The piano you have has very small casters. Those have a habit of punching through carpeting and into the padding. I would recommend using caster cups when the piano is moved for the electrician.

Despite the fact that those casters look like they should be used to roll the piano, they really aren't designed for that. They are a furniture design element left from previous eras, before pianos had heavy iron plates. Even on a hard flat surface, they put a lot of strain on the leg fittings. Moving on carpet can really be asking for trouble. Look at a few photos of some other grands and you might see large, dual, locking casters on the legs. Those are the ones which are designed to actually roll the piano.

With a small grand, the best way to move it is to invite some strong friends over, and chill the beer. One person at each leg will do it for a piano of that size.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2272070 - 05/06/14 09:25 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Thanks for the advice Marty!
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2272526 - 05/07/14 08:00 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
My piano has caster cups that have 3 casters each, but once in place, the carpet will be indented permanently. I've even used an industrial steamer, and it doesn't help much. I think the piano will stay put for some time.
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

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#2272536 - 05/07/14 08:26 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: thetandyman]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 190
Loc: Usa
Originally Posted By: thetandyman
My piano has caster cups that have 3 casters each, but once in place, the carpet will be indented permanently. I've even used an industrial steamer, and it doesn't help much. I think the piano will stay put for some time.


Yes, but even without the caster cups, carpet will be indented by the piano caster wheels. But like you said, the piano isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

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#2272547 - 05/07/14 08:51 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Indentations do occur as the piano sits. There is no doubt about that. However, the use of caster cups prevents perforating the carpet layer. Whether the 'divots' can be removed depends on the materials used for the carpet construction. Natural fibers with a natural backing stand the best chance for success.

Trying to roll any grand, with small casters, across carpeting is asking for trouble.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2272549 - 05/07/14 08:57 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
On Friday morning the electricians will install the overhead lights and the floor outlet. While they are here I will have them help me move all three legs onto caster cups, which I ordered today and will be arriving tomorrow.

At that point, the piano will be in its final position (I hope smile )


Edited by BrianDX (05/07/14 08:58 PM)
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2272557 - 05/07/14 09:21 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Phew !!!

Relax and Enjoy!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2272566 - 05/07/14 09:59 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
PhilipInChina Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 800
Loc: China
I don't want to be accused of hijacking a thread but is it possible to put large casters on the legs of my Bechstein? it has the ice cream cone legs.
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

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#2273264 - 05/09/14 01:43 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 595
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Brian,

When you were looking at the Avantgrand N1, did you consider the N2? I know it would have been even more expensive, but would the N2 have had better speakers, better ergonomics, and avoided the sustain-pedal/key interaction problems that you had with the N1?

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#2273269 - 05/09/14 02:02 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Almaviva]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Almaviva,

We did indeed. In fact, when I heard the original issue with the N1 at the dealer, I suggested that perhaps we should move up to the N2 instead.

After a rather disinterested "why would you want to do that?" reply from my dealer, we went ahead with the N1.

The N2 did not have the same sustain pedal issues as far as I could tell, and the speakers were noticeably better. However, now that I have had the pleasure of having the Yamaha C2X in my home for over a week, I can make these observations (clearly my own smile ):

1) No matter how good the N2 (or N3) are, they really cannot fully reproduce the actual sound of a quality acoustic piano.
2) If it turned out we would not have room for the C2X, we would have bought a Yamaha U2 upright, which had a fabulous sound all its own.
3) If we really needed to stick to a digital piano (due to headphone necessity) knowing what I know now I would have stuck with our $2,000 Kawai CN34. Although it does not have the same grand action of the AdvantGrand series, the bottom line is, we were happy with the Kawai, very very unhappy with the N1.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2273271 - 05/09/14 02:07 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
An update on this post:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"On Friday morning the electricians will install the overhead lights and the floor outlet. While they are here I will have them help me move all three legs onto caster cups, which I ordered today and will be arriving tomorrow. At that point, the piano will be in its final position (I hope)"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The lights are up, piano is in its final position with caster cups. Once our music poster and new piano bench arrive on Monday I'll post a "final" picture of our setup.

Thanks to Marty, Philip, Grandman and everyone else who contributed to this thread grin

P.S. How do I insert the comments of a previous post and make it look very nice in its own dialog box?


Edited by BrianDX (05/09/14 02:09 PM)
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2273272 - 05/09/14 02:09 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 190
Loc: Usa
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
Almaviva,

We did indeed. In fact, when I heard the original issue with the N1 at the dealer, I suggested that perhaps we should move up to the N2 instead.

After a rather disinterested "why would you want to do that?" reply from my dealer, we went ahead with the N1.

The N2 did not have the same sustain pedal issues as far as I could tell, and the speakers were noticeably better. However, now that I have had the pleasure of having the Yamaha C2X in my home for over a week, I can make these observations (clearly my own smile ):

1) No matter how good the N2 (or N3) are, they really cannot fully reproduce the actual sound of a quality acoustic piano.
2) If it turned out we would not have room for the C2X, we would have bought a Yamaha U2 upright, which had a fabulous sound all its own.
3) If we really needed to stick to a digital piano (due to headphone necessity) knowing what I know now I would have stuck with our $2,000 Kawai CN34. Although it does not have the same grand action of the AdvantGrand series, the bottom line is, we were happy with the Kawai, very very unhappy with the N1.


Wow, thanks for sharing, Brian. Its interesting that you preferred the u2 to the n1 or n2.

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#2273275 - 05/09/14 02:11 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 814
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
Almaviva,

We did indeed. In fact, when I heard the original issue with the N1 at the dealer, I suggested that perhaps we should move up to the N2 instead.

After a rather disinterested "why would you want to do that?" reply from my dealer, we went ahead with the N1.

The N2 did not have the same sustain pedal issues as far as I could tell, and the speakers were noticeably better. However, now that I have had the pleasure of having the Yamaha C2X in my home for over a week, I can make these observations (clearly my own smile ):

1) No matter how good the N2 (or N3) are, they really cannot fully reproduce the actual sound of a quality acoustic piano.
2) If it turned out we would not have room for the C2X, we would have bought a Yamaha U2 upright, which had a fabulous sound all its own.
3) If we really needed to stick to a digital piano (due to headphone necessity) knowing what I know now I would have stuck with our $2,000 Kawai CN34. Although it does not have the same grand action of the AdvantGrand series, the bottom line is, we were happy with the Kawai, very very unhappy with the N1.


I agree. I played the N3 and thought the speakers were lacking. I don't understand why they didn't go all the way and make the sound as big as a 9' CFX. Maybe it'd start stealing sales from the Cx series, or maybe there are some physical limitations. But Kawai's CS-10 had not only a pleasant tone, but it had the volume of a really big grand. Hopefully they're working on a better action.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2273280 - 05/09/14 02:23 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Grandman]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Grandman,

Everyone has their own special criteria when choosing the right type and model of piano.

For most, the three most important are their budget, physical space, and special considerations (headphones, additional sounds, etc.)

We were lucky that our budget allowed us to consider some very nice choices. However, once this three week ordeal (or adventure?) was completed, there were only two really important things that mattered: how does it feel, how does it sound?

Now I'll tell you this; I went through all of the Yamaha literature abut the AG series, and the one hour spiel from my local dealer about how the AG series was "perfect".

OK, here were two real basic questions that I asked him:

1) Is is true that regardless what is "up front" in the AV series, the actual sound comes out of a series of speakers? YES
2) Is it true that an acoustic piano produces sound through a combination of hammers hitting piano wires, which then can cause other strings nearby to resonate, which are amplified by a spruce soundboard, which are then transmitted to my ears through analog sound waves that are not digitally sampled? YES

OK, I think I've made by point smile


Edited by BrianDX (05/09/14 02:26 PM)
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2273355 - 05/09/14 05:40 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
P.S. How do I insert the comments of a previous post and make it look very nice in its own dialog box?

Under each reply in a thread there are a series of boxes to let you reply in various styles. "Quote" will include the screen name of the poster you are referencing, and "Quick Quote" will not. I have no idea why it is considered any 'quicker'.

It brings up the a reply box with the quoted text inserted. It is active text and you are able to edit it, such as deleting unnecessary text, as I have done with your posting.

To view how it will look, simply click "Preview Post" to confirm that everything is as you want it.

To practice, you can try it out and as long as you don't click on "Submit," it won't show up in the forum. You can always use your browser's "Back" button to return to the thread.

I hope this helps.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2273461 - 05/09/14 09:18 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
To practice, you can try it out and as long as you don't click on "Submit," it won't show up in the forum. You can always use your browser's "Back" button to return to the thread.

I hope this helps.


It did smile


Edited by BrianDX (05/09/14 09:19 PM)
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2273463 - 05/09/14 09:31 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Brian - You now have become a full-fledged PianoWorldian.

Congratulations!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2273608 - 05/10/14 11:04 AM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
A special shout-out to Marty concerning caster cups;

Not only does the piano now sit better and more evenly on our carpet, but they have added a more elegant look to the whole piano setup.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2273609 - 05/10/14 11:06 AM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
Aha! - I should quote your quote of Groucho.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2274335 - 05/11/14 10:34 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Everything has finally arrived and our room is finally in place.

Thanks so much to the many folks who helped us during the past few weeks. grin
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2275997 - 05/14/14 03:41 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
Final pics. Perhaps when the piano tech comes in a few weeks for our first free tuning I'll post anything of interest that he/she may find.

BTW: The room is 13 feet by 15 feet and the piano is 5' 8". There is another thread going on right now where folks are posting pictures concerning how big a room do you need for a 6 foot piano.


_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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#2276007 - 05/14/14 03:53 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
That looks like a great spot. Enjoy that Yamaha!
_________________________
Gary

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#2276012 - 05/14/14 04:06 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7285
Loc: Rochester MN
It is lovely!

The runner is very tasteful.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2276013 - 05/14/14 04:08 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Plowboy]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 190
Loc: Usa
Brian,

I really like that piano lamp. The way its attached, is there any concern it could scratch your music desk? Also, does it put any pressure and weight on the music desk at the point of attachment?


Edited by Grandman (05/14/14 04:09 PM)

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#2276014 - 05/14/14 04:10 PM Re: Yamaha Grand buying choices [Re: Minnesota Marty]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 551
Loc: Lewes DE
My wife and I think so smile

The only issue we have is sometimes our cats will not permit us to play "their" piano. For those who owns cats you know what I mean.

So Marty, don't them caster cups look cool?
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .


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