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#2277473 - 05/17/14 01:21 PM Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 926
Loc: Lewes DE
...or perhaps one of many knowledgeable folks on this forum.

In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."

Here is my question: How does that rule of thumb change if your ceiling height is nine feet (or taller)?

Thanks.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F ..
Current: Diabelli - Song; Reinagle - Allegro; Faber - March Slav;

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#2277477 - 05/17/14 01:25 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Carbonblob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 369
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca.
Oh Man Brian!

I just woke up.......nobody told me there would be math questions this morning! I haven't even finished my coffee yet
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KAWAI RX-3 BLAK
YAMAHA GRANTOUCH GT1

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#2277480 - 05/17/14 01:33 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1577
Loc: Manywheres
It doesn't change anything...at all: a piano's size has nothing to do with whether or not it will function in a room.

You might want to consider--all other things being equal--the amount of energy delivered to the strings via the action should be the same on all pianos, regardless of the size of the piano. A bigger soundboard doesn't equate to more volume (i.e., it is not a speaker), it is actually slightly less--particularly in the melodic section.

The size matters aspect comes in with the thinner bass strings in longer pianos. You should get the biggest piano you can afford, if a better balanced sound is what you are after. Everything else can be adjusted.
_________________________
Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
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#2277486 - 05/17/14 01:54 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: A454.7]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 926
Loc: Lewes DE
Thanks for the info! This is kind of what I thought.

It just seemed strange to me that a "sizing formula" this specific was mentioned in that article.

Besides, I'm kind of "locked in" to my piano/room size combination. So far we are extremely pleased with our piano's performance in the room we have chosen.


_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F ..
Current: Diabelli - Song; Reinagle - Allegro; Faber - March Slav;

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#2277508 - 05/17/14 02:38 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5325
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
...or perhaps one of many knowledgeable folks on this forum.

In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."

Here is my question: How does that rule of thumb change if your ceiling height is nine feet (or taller)?

You can safely ignore this rule of thumb. Hopefully you'll be able to get your thumb out of the way before any real damage is done.

This question has come up several time on Piano Forum (though I don't know the topic titles). And the answer is still the same: Of far greater importance is the fundamental design of the piano (large or small) and its voicing.

In the dealer's showroom if a short piano seems a little bright to you it is probably going to drive you out (almost certainly smaller) room in your home. If the voice of a longer piano comes off a little on the soft side in that same showroom it will probably be about right in your home.

ddf
_________________________
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Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#2277531 - 05/17/14 03:27 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
If a train departs Haverhill, MA at 9:00 am, and a train leaves Elkhart, IN exactly 5 minutes later, what time will the ship arrive from Tianjin?

Then again, vaulted ceilings cause all sorts of havoc with piano shipping.

crazy
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2277542 - 05/17/14 03:59 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Beacon Chris Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 465
Loc: Idaho
Here's one for you, Carbonblob, et.al.:

My grandson is about as many days as my son in weeks, and my grandson is as many months as I am in years. My grandson, my son and I together are 120 years. Can you tell me my age in years ?
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment. - Woody Allen

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#2277564 - 05/17/14 05:14 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Bosendorff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 306
75

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#2277590 - 05/17/14 06:38 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: Beacon Chris]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 601
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Beacon Chris
Here's one for you, Carbonblob, et.al.:

My grandson is about as many days as my son in weeks, and my grandson is as many months as I am in years. My grandson, my son and I together are 120 years. Can you tell me my age in years ?

I'd say 72.
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

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#2277596 - 05/17/14 06:59 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1266
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.
_________________________
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Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#2277602 - 05/17/14 07:11 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: Eric Gloo]
Voltara Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By: Eric Gloo
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.

I think we can make an exception, as long as it's tuned in Equilateral Temperament.

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#2277607 - 05/17/14 07:26 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: Voltara]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Voltara
Originally Posted By: Eric Gloo
Originally Posted By: BrianDX
A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.

I think we can make an exception, as long as it's tuned in Equilateral Temperament.

Good One !!!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2277639 - 05/17/14 09:27 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 926
Loc: Lewes DE
OK this is fun; I just Googled "Equilateral Temperament" and this post came up first smile

I think we're making history here...
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F ..
Current: Diabelli - Song; Reinagle - Allegro; Faber - March Slav;

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#2277643 - 05/17/14 09:45 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
That makes cents.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2277709 - 05/18/14 12:51 AM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: Minnesota Marty]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3694
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Certainly resonates with me.

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#2277767 - 05/18/14 04:34 AM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1843
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Another dynamic to consider: When we pulled the carpet out of the room, "volume" on our little Hamilton grand 4'10" increased by at least 50%. Close your eyes and you'd think a 7' piano was playing. Much to think about when deciding upon acoustics and placement.
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com

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#2277784 - 05/18/14 05:56 AM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2089
Loc: Suffolk, England
Pianos seem to be tolerant of room size. Here's a rough and ready recast of the Piano Buyer rule of thumb. It indicates "preferred" and "maximum recommended" piano models, based on the smaller wall length:

8': upright
10': upright or baby grand, up to 165 mm
12': large upright or small grand, up to 195 mm
15': 180-190 mm grand, up to semi-concert grand
20': semi-concert grand, up to concert grand
30': concert grand.


Edited by Withindale (05/18/14 06:04 AM)
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2277900 - 05/18/14 12:57 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Beacon Chris Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 465
Loc: Idaho
PatH - you got it.


I am 72 years old.

Let m be my age in years. If s is my son's age in years, then my son is 52s weeks old. If g is my grandson's age in years, then my grandson is 365g days old. Thus,
365g = 52s.
Since my grandson is 12g months old,
12g = m.
Since my grandson, my son and I together are 120 years,
g + s + m = 120.
The above system of 3 equations in 3 unknowns (g, s and m) can be solved as follows.
m / 12 + 365 m / (52 x 12) + m = 120 or
52 m + 365 m + 624 m = 624 x 120 or
m = 624 x 120 / 1041 = 72.
So, I am 72 years old.
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment. - Woody Allen

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#2277909 - 05/18/14 01:15 PM Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question... [Re: BrianDX]
Carbonblob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 369
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca.
slow down guys! I'm still working on the "price of tea" thing!

Beacon: did you ever see the opening of the movie "scanners"? yeah, that's me sitting next the doctor! Thanks.....now I have no head and the room is a mess.
_________________________
KAWAI RX-3 BLAK
YAMAHA GRANTOUCH GT1

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