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#227849 - 01/20/09 10:17 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
I'm not thrilled by the poly finishes on some of the pianos that are not black.. on the carved pianos most of the defintion is lost..like cornice molding with too many coats of old white paint..

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#227850 - 01/20/09 10:52 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
James Senior Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 342
Loc: England
I agree Bob,

It does seem strange that the manufacturers are prepared to put such little time into case finishing - especially as it makes or breaks the look of the thing.
I understand that a real french polish, applied over many weeks, is far too expensive for your average piano. However for a special Bluthner like that, costing over $100k, you'd think it was worth it.

I've always hated the look of fine woods hidden under a sheet of cheap plastic.

It's as bad a seeing restored Rolls Royces where they use thick two-pack curing paint instead of multiple coat, hand rubbed cellulose finishes.

Crying shame.

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#227851 - 01/20/09 12:01 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
When one finishes very ornate art case pianos as well as furniture,the chances of it being clearer as in not killing the grain,polyester or polyurethane is gonna be a better bet nowadays.Most refinishers doing lacquer whether satin or high gloss have a hard time in not killing the grain(too much sealer)milky effect. I think the new polyurethane is better than polyester in achieving the razor sharp edges and art case detail.Polyester rounds out the edges which most don't notice. Many manufactures don't do polyester on 100% of the piano. ex.Yamaha legs,music rack,lyre etc.
Observations over the years ;\)
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#227852 - 01/20/09 03:19 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer:
Del, are you at liberty to disclose any details of the scale design changes being made to the YC pianos? I assume you're shortening the speaking lengths and increasing the backscale, but is the arrangement of the strings - bass/tenor break, which notes have 1, 2 and 3 strings each, which (if any) are trichord wrapped, etc? [/b]
I'm at liberty but, and more to the point, short on time. To answer your questions in detail would take more than I have available.

Each piano presents its own challenges and opportunities. Many of these pianos come from different heritages and, at least at one time, had different tone and performance character. I am attempting to change that and give them all some commonality.

I will be giving each of them as much backscale length as is practical. In general I am not changing the arrangement of the strings as that would require entirely new plate patterns. Right now we are concentrating on changes that can be made more quickly by modifying the plates. Some of these are rather extensive modifications but basic pattern continues. None of the redesigned scales will use tri-chord wrapped strings.

They are all getting new scales, new tenor and bass bridges, corrected hammer strikelines, etc.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#227853 - 01/20/09 09:45 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
Del,

Does the change on YC limit on the scale only?

Any changes in the manufacturing methods and also the choice of materials?

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#227854 - 01/21/09 01:53 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by tanjinjack:
Del,

Does the change on YC limit on the scale only?

Any changes in the manufacturing methods and also the choice of materials? [/b]
The changes are fairly extensive. See my earlier posts under this topic for some indication of what has been done.

I have made a number of changes in the assembly process to improve parts registration and alignment all designed to improve performance and, to some extent, appearance. The most significant materials change so far has been with the hammers. They are now Abel "Natural Felt" hammers; hard-press for the YC and medium-press for the Weber. (I should mention that their definition of "hard" is not nearly as hard as most. I wish there was another word they could use to describe them.) Some other materials may be changing as well but that is for another day.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#227855 - 01/21/09 02:07 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Before this topic fades into oblivion I’d like to comment on some of the entertainment that is available offsite, but within walking distance, of the NAMM Convention Center.

On Saturday evening (if memory serves—everything NAMM becomes a blur after a while) we attended the Sauter reception and performance at the Hyatt about five or six blocks down Harbor Blvd. Ulrich had this new concert grand set up in a small hall where an absolutely outstanding jazz trio (piano, bass and drums) played for a couple of hours. The piano was (is) incredible, the music world-class and the food delicious, plentiful and fattening.

Attendance was disappointingly light but those who were there were enthusiastic and were treated to a memorable event.

I don’t know where that piano is going next but it’s an instrument worth following.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#227856 - 01/21/09 04:54 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
thecoldeye Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 77
Loc: Vienna, VA
I hate to complain, but we want more photos. It seems to me you guys have done more drinking at this year's show--and not enough picture taking.

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#227857 - 01/21/09 06:34 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by thecoldeye:
I hate to complain, but we want more photos. It seems to me you guys have done more drinking at this year's show--and not enough picture taking. [/b]
And eating...don't forget eating.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#227858 - 01/21/09 07:12 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1905
Loc: El Cajon, CA
I'd have to agree with el ojo frio.

next time you guys need to take a full-frame dSLR camera.... then spend at least as much on memory cards as you spend on the camera... fill them with pics of the PIANOS at NAMM... then post them on here. \:D
_________________________
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1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
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#227859 - 01/21/09 07:49 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer:
I'd have to agree with el ojo frio.

next time you guys need to take a full-frame dSLR camera.... then spend at least as much on memory cards as you spend on the camera... fill them with pics of the PIANOS at NAMM... then post them on here. \:D [/b]
Ok, you want pictures, I got pictures (but I did get to eat and drink too:-)



















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#227860 - 01/21/09 08:00 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Frank, [/b]t-dot suggested reportage re introductions. IMO this would generate interest on PW and would help us with our recommendations. Manufacturers also might like reportage. Perhaps a photographer might accompany the reportageur(s) - not that there's anything wrong with your snaps, as Seinfeld might say;-)

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#227861 - 01/21/09 08:04 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...







It's not all pianos...










_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


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#227862 - 01/21/09 08:10 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...











_________________________
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www.PianoWorld.com
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


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#227863 - 01/21/09 10:09 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
I wish there's videos or recordings of those beautiful pianos. \:\(

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#227864 - 01/22/09 07:15 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1905
Loc: El Cajon, CA
tanjinjack you beat me to it!
Anyhow was David Rubenstein there?
_________________________
Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.

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#227865 - 01/22/09 08:31 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
what grand is that make/model? (solo shot) on the red carpet? I love that 2 tone effect of the burlwood.. \:D

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#227866 - 01/22/09 08:36 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
what grand is that make/model? (solo shot) on the red carpet? I love that 2 tone effect of the burlwood.. \:D [/b]
It seems to me that the fallboard name is covered. If you look at the picture more carefully, you will find that the place where we usually have the decal is slightly different in colour.

Anyway, it seems like it's a big model, judging from the over-sized casters.

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#227867 - 01/22/09 11:26 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
what grand is that make/model? (solo shot) on the red carpet? I love that 2 tone effect of the burlwood.. \:D [/b]
Fazioli
_________________________
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www.PianoSupplies.com
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


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#227868 - 01/22/09 11:30 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Del:
Before this topic fades into oblivion I’d like to comment on some of the entertainment that is available offsite, but within walking distance, of the NAMM Convention Center.

On Saturday evening (if memory serves—everything NAMM becomes a blur after a while) we attended the Sauter reception and performance at the Hyatt about five or six blocks down Harbor Blvd. Ulrich had this new concert grand set up in a small hall where an absolutely outstanding jazz trio (piano, bass and drums) played for a couple of hours. The piano was (is) incredible, the music world-class and the food delicious, plentiful and fattening.

Attendance was disappointingly light but those who were there were enthusiastic and were treated to a memorable event.

I don’t know where that piano is going next but it’s an instrument worth following.

ddf [/b]
If I'd known, we certainly would have attended (could have snuck out of the NPTA party early).

Guess my invitation must have arrived after I'd left Pompano Beach ;\)

Even though I'm an old rock musician, I get tired of the rock groups blasting so loud in the hotel lobbys that you can't hear yourself think.

I have to say though, the NPTA had a nice jazz trio, and a few of the talented members sat in and did a great job.
_________________________
- Frank B.
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www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#227869 - 01/22/09 12:35 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano World:
Here my friend Kathy demonstrates what happens when Tom L. of M&H pulls out the stick...

[/b]
How is this achieved? Hydraulic jack?

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#227870 - 01/22/09 12:47 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1905
Loc: El Cajon, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano World:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
what grand is that make/model? (solo shot) on the red carpet? I love that 2 tone effect of the burlwood.. \:D [/b]
Fazioli [/b]
That's what I thought it was. Was it the 308 or the 278?
_________________________
Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.

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#227871 - 01/22/09 12:56 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
 Quote:
Originally posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer:
tanjinjack you beat me to it!
Anyhow was David Rubenstein there? [/b]
He was there Friday but not his piano.I got him his badge. \:D

If the two tone effect (burlwood) floats one's boat you could buy the Hailun (above pic) and pocket the remaining 200K.
The NAMM show was in Anaheim.In that I am the Hailun dealer in Southern CA. I wonder who bought that piano after the show. :rolleyes: ;\)
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#227872 - 01/22/09 04:47 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
Did anyone stop by the Baldwin booth - anything you can tell us?

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#227873 - 01/22/09 05:08 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by kluurs:
Did anyone stop by the Baldwin booth - anything you can tell us? [/b]
The Baldwin "booth" was in with Gibson guitars.

They had quite a few pianos on display, including a couple of the wacky designs (but also including traditional cabinets).

I couldn't get anyone's attention to ask questions. I did see one young lady (employee) dressed in jeans talking to some people about the pianos.

I keep hoping someone with official ties will jump on the forums to give us some info.
_________________________
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#227874 - 01/22/09 05:12 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
 Quote:
Originally posted by tanjinjack:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano World:
Here my friend Kathy demonstrates what happens when Tom L. of M&H pulls out the stick...

[/b]
How is this achieved? Hydraulic jack? [/b]
Details to follow.

They have some other interesting things in the works too. More information and pictures as they are available, likely in a few weeks.
_________________________
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Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#227875 - 01/23/09 01:26 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
From the Kawai Dealer Reception...

Hirotaka Kawai, President Kawai, Me, Kathy (LadyFord), Naoki Mori Exec. Vice President KAWAI America



Our thanks to Hale Ryan (National Marketing and Product Development Manager North America Acoustic Division
KAWAI America) for inviting us to the reception.
_________________________
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Founder / Host
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Find Us On:
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


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#227876 - 01/23/09 02:20 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Hale KAWAI Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 114
Loc: miami
Frank, truly a pleasure meeting you and Kathy! I will make sure Mr. Kawai will see this on my trip to Japan late next week.
_________________________
Hale Thomas Ryan
Marketing and Product Development Manager, Acoustic Division
KAWAI AMERICA

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#227877 - 01/23/09 07:07 PM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1721
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano World:
I did see one young lady (employee) dressed in jeans talking to some people about the pianos.[/b]
In the pictures, I miss the girls sitting on the pianos, talking to people about the pianos they are sitting on :rolleyes:



Edited to add cartoon
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
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#227878 - 01/24/09 09:46 AM Re: NAMM 2009 - Picts & Stuff
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
An overview of our impressions from NAMM 2009

In addition to piano manufacturers continuing to introduce new models, we found there were individuals developing new ideas.

Scott "the Piano Guy" Houston has some interesting projects in the pipeline (to be announced later).

Larry Fine (author of The Piano Book) also has some interesting projects in the works.
We talked about working more closely together in the future, something I'm looking forward to.
If all goes well, we should be hearing some news from him by late spring/early summer.

We ran into Robert Estrin of Living Piano.
Robert brings the music of historic pianos alive by performing on the original instruments, often in period costumes. ( www.LivingPiano.com ).
I suggested he get to know the Fredericks of Frederick's Museum fame ( www.frederickcollection.org/ ).

We also had the pleasure of meeting a number of members, wherever we went. It was great fun to walk into a display space or even a hotel lobby and have people come up to introduce themselves as members of our forums.

My overall impression is that the industry is cautiously optimistic.

Many manufacturers indicated they were having a good show. How much that is true, and how much of it was because they knew it would end up on the forums, I don't know.

I can say we chatted candidly with many dealers, and while none of them said business was great, most were satisfied with the previous year, and looking forward to better times.

The most optimistic of them were the ones who are proactively developing business by reaching out to their communities. Of prime importance: Offering lessons, giving great service, getting involved in community activities, hosting piano forums parties (ok, I snuck the last one in).

And then there were the performers!

Including the 14 year old boy who's mother works for Gibson. He went from piano to piano, playing wonderful performances of Chopin and other classical pieces. We happened to be in the booth when he proclaimed Fazioli to be his choice.

Too bad, his mother could probably have gotten him a nice deal on a Baldwin Hummer.

We were also treated to performances by our own Indrek Laul (Pres. of Estonia), Cecil from M&H, and Craig Smith of SMC. Each with their own unique style, and each amazing pianist in their own right.

EDITED: Craig pointed out to me that Cecil has a CD available on his web site ( www.cecilramirez.com/ ) I didn't even realize Cecil had a web site (sorry Cecil).

Then of course there are all the musicians wandering the floors of the show. NAMM is one big smorgasbord of great musical experiences, and as always, more than worth the trip.

I'm hoping some other attendees post to this thread later. I'll mention it in our next newsletter.

In the meantime, our thanks to all the people who make the show possible, to all the exhibitors who provide those wonderful toys to play and hear, and to all our friends old and new for their friendship and their music.

See you all at NAMM 2010!
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
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Find Us On:
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Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ
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