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#2282066 - 05/28/14 01:07 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
I just want to post a comparison between my piano playing and my organ playing (as of this moment). I still think that my capacity to express articulation on the organ is at a baby stage. I'm a little better on piano.

There's obviously a different articulation approach on the organ. I hear the A-List players and they are so expressive. But an organ has a square envelope, as they say. There is no decay. So I haven't found the answer yet.

Articulation, as you get more advanced is about dynamics at each note, and micro-time control at the note level. These are subtle elements that often cannot be heard by beginners. I can do it to some degree on piano now. Now that I'm able to hear it on piano, it's glaringly absent on organ and it is frustrating.

Piano
https://app.box.com/s/aehj7n0v797tx1sxmmt5

Organ
https://app.box.com/s/lxqv582m6zo9cbyaqgl7

I'm thinking though that learning control of the organ articulation may add to development in piano control, at least at the time level (clearly not in dynamics).

BTW - most newbies in organ are probably concerned about the organ specific sounds like blues licks, glisses, smears, etc. I think these are the easy elements. I think the basics have to be mastered. Like starting at Alfreds Level 1.
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#2282189 - 05/28/14 09:08 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Tony never suggested it's preferred, just one approach. I think he was just looking for something that was easy to play, so I think just pick what comes more naturally.

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#2282305 - 05/28/14 01:12 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
I can see the benefits of 1-5-8. You don't have to consider the chord quality for major/minor. So you basically only think of the root (and the occasional half-dim). I was able to do All the Things You Are without thinking much.

It's really neat you're in the same area as the most well known Hammond B3 teacher.
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#2282316 - 05/28/14 01:34 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Actually, Tony is in Ohio and I'm in Chicago. The lessons use Skype, and Tony is well set up to do that. We even did one lesson from his hotel room when he was on the road.

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#2282789 - 05/29/14 02:35 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 402
Loc: Montreal Canada
Hi Jazzwee,

That is really kool that you are getting into organ, I just love the sound too. Different technique it is, something of "another animal" to tame and I'd say its just as difficult to get a good sound on a tune on organ than it is on piano. Just different.

If you have another keyboard with MIDI you can then configure it as the 2nd manual for the Nord, unless the Nord doesn't allow for it but I think it does. I do this with my Kurz PC3X or a computer running Native Instrument's B4. There are (or were) real drawbar MIDI accessories available too but if you ever get your hands on a Nord electro 4D, it has bars instead of those 2 up/down buttons.

I too, would love to get my hands on a B3 or even just an M100; both with a Leslie of course wink Good ones in near pristine condition are quite expensive (3-4K average, unless you know a little old lady that has one to get rid of). And one of my pet projects for when I retire in a few years is to find one and restore it to factory like-new. I remember as a kid still being fascinated with the rotating horn in the big brown box smile

For some great listening, check out Vince Seneri, Joey DeFrancesco, Reuben Wilson.

John
_________________________
"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

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#2283555 - 05/31/14 12:51 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Hey John, tell us of your organ playing history! Each one starts differently and it's fascinating to hear how one evolves to organs.

I've been having so many issues with so many things to learn on this. I've been asking questions on another keyboard forum where there's a lot of organ experts.

There's a lot to absorb but I've made quite a bit of headway in a couple of weeks so I'm excited.

Right now, I'm figuring out how to do LH Bass on organ. Much different from what I learned with LH bass on piano. Less area to cover (octave). We'll see how it goes.
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#2283890 - 05/31/14 08:55 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Just found out that Joey D is coming to one of my preferred local music clubs. I've seen in several times before, but I'll be going to this one, for sure. Right now he's touring with a Chicago based drummer (George Fludas) and a guitar player who used to be in Chicago although I think he's out in LA now (Jeff Parker).

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#2283891 - 05/31/14 08:59 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Cool jjo!

How long has it been since you started on organ BTW?
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#2284093 - 06/01/14 11:02 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
My first lesson with Tony was in January. I take a lesson every 3 weeks or so as I don't practice enough to take weekly lessons. It's been fun, but this concept for working a full time job may have to go!

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#2286426 - 06/06/14 03:12 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
The journey continues! Played organ at a gig tonight after 3 weeks of trying to figure it out. Still lots of rough edges but the audience seems to like the sound though.

https://app.box.com/s/c2nc8vwao9r4b0bhtnnn
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#2286530 - 06/06/14 10:20 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5659
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Well done smile Nothing like a gig to kick you into high gear.

Cathy
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#2286861 - 06/07/14 03:04 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Thanks Cathy! A little risky to be trying this so early but I guess that's how one learns.

I noticed btw that there seems to be zero "organ" activity in this entire forum. No one in Digital likes organ? I'm surprised at the fun textures in sounds one can get with a Hammond organ sound (if one knows how). And generally, it is easier to learn technique than piano.

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#2287147 - 06/07/14 10:31 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
Nothing more fun (and challenging) than playing organ IMO. I still have my lovely old Conn organ (with pedals) in the back room and enjoy playing it now & then. Here was one of my favorite songs to play on it back then:

MR. SANDMAN: https://app.box.com/shared/oostt4g0i4



Edited by Elssa (06/07/14 10:32 PM)

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#2287163 - 06/07/14 11:46 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
That's so cool Elssa! Do you play the pedals too?

So a Conn organ has no drawbars? I just looked at a pic. You just have preset sounds then? Does it have a swell pedal?

Envious that you have the real deal!
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#2287210 - 06/08/14 02:41 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
Thanks, Jazzwee, for starting this great organ thread. smile Yep, my Conn is a regular classic electric organ from the early 60's with the pedalboard, swell pedal, etc.. I used to play a pretty mean walking bass on it back then when I was young. cool Can't believe it still works, the pedals, rhythms, etc after all these years. A little static with a few of the contacts, but not too bad. They really made things so well back then, along with a beautiful wooden cabinet. It was my grandma's (my mom's mom), and I also had a larger one that I got from an organ teacher (Radio City Music Hall organist) which we eventually sold, but I kept the little one from grandma over the years. I love the Hammond as well as Conn - very rich sound, good deep bass sound with the pedals, etc.

Here's Ethel Smith playing Tico-Tico. smile Nothing more fun than playing Latin rhythms on the organ!



Edited by Elssa (06/09/14 01:17 AM)

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#2287574 - 06/09/14 01:22 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: Elssa]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
ETHEL SMITH

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/ethel/esmith.asp

"Two events dramatically changed the subsequent course of Ethel Smith's career. In 1935 the Hammond Corporation produced its first electric organ. The instrument revolutionized the keyboard genre by combining the fast action of the piano with the timbral resources of the organ. Miss Smith spotted her first Hammond while accompanying a singer in a Hollywood studio. According to her, "I just ran my fingers over [the organ] and said 'That's for me!'" (New York Times, May 16, 1943). Soon she was so proficient that she was able to pick up gigs in and around Hollywood, and even played on local radio broadcasts.

Ethel Smith was also concerned with sound quality. As she explained in another interview for Etude (May 1944), "The Hammond organist mixes tone color on a musical palette much in the manner of a painter in oils. He is not limited to ready-mixed colors." In fact, no one has ever made the Hammond sound quite like her. To some extent, this is due to her careful choice of organ stops and draw bars. Compare, for example, the shimmering pentatonic washes in "By the Waters of Minnetonka" (Bathing Beauty/Galloping Fingers) with the stark, other-worldly sound of "Firebird Blues" (Bouquet of the Blues) or the gnarly distortion of "Ethel Meets the Count" (Many Moods of Ethel Smith). She was particularly imaginative in recreating orchestral sounds and claimed that when arranging an instrumental piece for the organ she would "phrase as a flutist or clarinetist would" (Etude, May 1947). But Miss Smith's unique sound also depended upon her exceptional skills at transcription. In particular, she avoided clunky block chords preferring instead parallel thirds or other polyphonic devices. Take a listen to the ingenious countermelodies in "Brazil" (Many Moods of Ethel Smith/Latin from Manhattan). Using classical techniques, she even layered the same tune on top of itself to create her own "Fugue in Blue" (Bouquet of the Blues). The results were stunning; she was able to create full and fluid sounds without sacrificing her wonderful sense of color and rhythmic vitality. And that's why she was heralded by the Latin American press as "La Organista Mas Famoso del Mundo!"


Edited by Elssa (06/09/14 02:02 AM)

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#2287666 - 06/09/14 11:05 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
..
I noticed btw that there seems to be zero "organ" activity in this entire forum. No one in Digital likes organ?...


JW, did you try the organ forum here?
Organ forum

Ed
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http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#2287736 - 06/09/14 03:36 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Ed, I can't believe I've never seen that forum before. I guess I only look at the "Popular" forums which is what I bookmarked. Not busy either though.

Noticed too that there are two distinct groups of organ players. Classical/Church vs. Jazz/Rock/Blues. And how they handle the instrument is completely different.

At least this is my idea of organ playing.

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#2287744 - 06/09/14 03:46 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: Elssa]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Elssa
Thanks, Jazzwee, for starting this great organ thread. smile Yep, my Conn is a regular classic electric organ from the early 60's with the pedalboard, swell pedal, etc.. I used to play a pretty mean walking bass on it back then when I was young. cool Can't believe it still works, the pedals, rhythms, etc after all these years. A little static with a few of the contacts, but not too bad. They really made things so well back then, along with a beautiful wooden cabinet. It was my grandma's (my mom's mom), and I also had a larger one that I got from an organ teacher (Radio City Music Hall organist) which we eventually sold, but I kept the little one from grandma over the years. I love the Hammond as well as Conn - very rich sound, good deep bass sound with the pedals, etc.

Here's Ethel Smith playing Tico-Tico. smile Nothing more fun than playing Latin rhythms on the organ!



Super! Too bad they had to put an orchestra in the background. I would have liked to hear it with just the organ by itself. She's very expressive on this.
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#2287753 - 06/09/14 04:09 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
...
At least this is my idea of organ playing.



Yeah, me too.

I was just remembering that Gordon Vernick did some podcasts about the history of jazz organ, focusing mostly on Jimmy Smith. Good stuff. I think they are on iTunes.

Ed
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My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#2287917 - 06/10/14 12:55 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Elssa, I was looking for more Ethel Smith, trying to hear her playing by herself only. Hard to find. I guess she mostly played for movies and such. Wonderful sound. Like classical piano with her technique.
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#2287925 - 06/10/14 02:27 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
Ethel Smith



Edited by Elssa (06/10/14 02:35 AM)

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#2287927 - 06/10/14 02:36 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: Elssa]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY


Edited by Elssa (06/10/14 02:38 AM)

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#2287929 - 06/10/14 02:42 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: Elssa]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
More Ethel Smith - lots of fun. smile







Edited by Elssa (06/10/14 02:46 AM)

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#2288329 - 06/11/14 01:06 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Elssa, I was looking for more Ethel Smith, trying to hear her playing by herself only. Hard to find. I guess she mostly played for movies and such. Wonderful sound. Like classical piano with her technique.


Yes, such a wonderful technique. thumb She loved the Latin rhythms especially and used those on the Hammond organ quite often. She didn't need an orchestra or band, though she enjoyed that as well.

Here's my arrangement of Brazil. I still have her original sheet music and just changed the key and a few other things. She was a real virtuoso!

BRAZIL




Edited by Elssa (06/11/14 01:51 AM)

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#2288340 - 06/11/14 02:02 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1601
Loc: NY
This is the original sheet music that I have:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brazil-by-Ary-Ba...=item4867918d9b

This is very similar to the Conn organ I have at home now in the back room:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CONN-The...=item27e579de6d


Edited by Elssa (06/11/14 02:06 AM)

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#2288456 - 06/11/14 10:31 AM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Florida
Yikes, that Tico Tico really brought back some memories. I used to love that song when I was a kid, and I'm sure Ethel had something to do with that!

Here I am playing it on my Hammond in 1979. Audio quality is really bad - recorded on a kid's cassette player/recorder, sitting on the floor in front of the speakers, so there is way too much bass.

Tico Tico


Sounds like I was more into drama and harmonic tension than speed or technique! laugh

Ed
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My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#2288597 - 06/11/14 04:08 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
You sounded pretty good in 1979 Ed! Wow! Love it when you guys post organ performances. Something for me to look forward to.

You still keep cassettes from 1979????? Do you also have 8-track? smile And how did you digitize this? I don't think I even have a device that can play cassettes...
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#2288733 - 06/11/14 11:32 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
You sounded pretty good in 1979 Ed! Wow! Love it when you guys post organ performances. Something for me to look forward to.

You still keep cassettes from 1979????? Do you also have 8-track? smile And how did you digitize this? I don't think I even have a device that can play cassettes...


Five or six years ago, I was in the process of throwing out old cassette tapes, and came across this "organ time capsule" tape with thirty-some recordings from 1978-79. No improvising in any of these, but I was certainly having fun creating arrangements from lead sheets.

I have a boombox that plays cassettes, so I wired its headset output to my computer line-in input and digitized the tape with Audacity.

Fun to listen to the old recordings, even though the sound quality ranges from absolutely horrible to even worse!

Ed
_________________________
http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#2288746 - 06/11/14 11:56 PM Re: New Journey -- On Organ! [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
So was yours a B3? No Leslie?
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