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You all realize that this thread is 5 years old, right?

Greetings,
I suppose the first divergence I see in my practice is that I don't space the flanges, at all. Too often have I seen shanks and flanges that don't share the same axis after being pinned together, so the spacing of the flange is no more than cosmetic. I space my shanks so that there is equal distance between the shanks, at the knuckle. This allows the maximum consistency when spacing whip pens to them. It is not uncommon to find that when the set of shanks is spaced and traveled, the flanges are all over the map. This is unimportant compared to the shanks.

I have also tried the lateral movement vs.rotating the flange to achieve spacing and consider it inferior for two reasons. This approach produces greater inconsistency of spacing between the shanks in comparison to swinging them,i.e. if you need a hammer to move over 2mm, you will lose that much space at the knuckle by lateral spacing, but less than half of that by swinging. More importantly, lateral change of placement puts the edge of the flange on new, uncompressed, rail cloth, which always creates a traveling problem by tipping the flange in relation to its old position. This problem, if then corrected, will gradually settle back as the cloth compresses, leaving the shank now traveling back the other way. I watched this happen with several of the pianos at the university that I was tracking when I came back from a week at the New York factory, ready to save all that time papering flanges by tapping them side to side. Three months later, I had to go back and retravel most of the ones I had spaced with this method. Rotating the flange keeps the dimensional change between old and new bedding to a minimum and has served me well for many years. It takes longer, but it has shown itself to me to be the more stable approach.

I have never found paper to be unstable,(and most of my action jobs are under my constant scrutiny). On wooden parts, I use brown packing tape, slightly wetted. On WNG parts, I use another kind of tape. I leave approx, 2 mm of it beyond where the flange contacts for later removal if I see fit. The composite parts shine a very bright light on issues such as stability of traveling and spacing. Since there is no wood movement to blame things on, the stability of the spacing is directly dependent on the bedding of the flange to the rail. More specific lessons are taught when more variables are removed.

It seems to me that the combination of destabilizing the flange-to-rail fit by sliding the flange over, and then correcting it by removing wood, is creating irreversible compromises for little gain.
Regards,

Sure that consistency with the screws of the flange is how the job begins.

I noticed this is to be done when new flanges are installed, once spaced nicely with the screws not too tight, the screws are tightened and create the definitive imprint in the wood (that small drop of bees wax on the flanges helps to do so.)

Only on very small grands (i.e Grotrian 140) the flanges are not square to the rails all around the break and in the basses, as this allow more easy spacing/travelling. The rails are bore to allow for that while keeping the whippens centered on the keys (I noticed)

The parallel posture of the screw on the S&S flange matters when it comes to travelling the shanks, a screw that is not flat on the flange will always push it and you need a lot of paper to correct that. it is easier to hold the flange in the good position and work the imprint.

On older models, the screws are so long and the flange so much compressed I do not do that anymore, as the screw will push inside the brass rail and help to crack it.

The principle with Steinway flanges is that if they are correctly placed they will get back in place every time the screws are tightened no loss of time.

I like the method with the file,(i do so where there is solder) I use cardboard and paper, but on Renner type flanges I scrape with a small blade under the flange, that is more definitive an not too difficult as the underside is channeled a small pass with the blade take out very little wood easily.

Parallel and spaced shanks are indispensable to work the hammers

I like the directions : center the screws, space the flanges space/travel the shanks, then burn/ angle the hammers. Traveling left or right is used where the agrafes are not spaced evenly, just to keep the visual at rest.

3 passes are generally necessary. I hate doing the same things more than once, but it is

Regards

Oh, I didn't notice this was an old thread...I guess the OP isn't around anymore then.

There is an old saying "it is in the old threads we do the best soup" !

spacing flanges depends of the quality of the bore and the quality of the parts, I generally have well space bore and I can use the screw centered on the flanges, which is better, the pressure of the screw is well centered.

Also the bore for the whippens is suppose to be the same, and I want the shank to center of the whippen flange.

That is how we are told, anyway. and keep a consistent hammer travel, not adjusting it to aftertouch, the key dip can be adjusted a little eventually, or the reason why aftertouch is not even find and corrected.

This happen more easily when no jig/support is use to control the squaring of the center (or even correct a bad squaring) .

Ideally a jig and long centers (60cm) as the ones that where use in NY Steinway factory in the 30's.
But even with small centers, hand reaming is more secure when the flange is hold in a gig.
ON new Renner parts I never have such squaring problems.

All those "cosmetics" allow for a way more precise/easier job with hammers, as our eyes use all possible references (as when shaping hammers, eyeballing the center line from the tail to the crown helps to see if the head is symmetric)

As when gluing new heads working with the bench parallel to a wall, square to others, help the body to perceive better the best hammer vertical position at gluing time

Olek, it is good to read that you also find flange spacing/squaring important!

Flange spacing is more than cosmetics. When a shank's position is changed at the screw, the hammer will appear to drift from one side to the other [as it travels through the arc], then they get shimmed with paper to correct this movement--technicians often say it is not necessary to take note of how the shanks travels as they move to a straight up-and-down position (i.e., one need only travel to the horizontal position). I prefer my shanks to travel straight throughout the entire arc of possible travel, which happens through proper flange spacing/squaring--then, I am only dealing with real traveling issues (i.e., only very minor wood adjustments are necessary. BTW, I take note of the flange, knuckle, and shank when making sure everything is properly in alignment.

Flange spacing/squaring works perfectly with manufactures that are able to produce actions where the string position, hammer flange screws holes, whippen flange screws holes, and capstans are all in alignment. It becomes problematic when manufactures don't do their job correctly. So, Ed's method deals with a problem that the manufacturer created [which should have been corrected during construction]. When flange proper spacing/squaring alignment causes other problems (e.g., the screw head too far on one side when aligning the flanges to the strings or whippens), then compromises need to be sought out.

Sure it is not so easy to index the holes of the action rails to the strike line, taking in account the lateral motion of the crown.

it account for a +- 2mm displacement of the bore where the angles of hammers are significant.

We face those problems each time action position and/or strike line are modified.

Key capstan placement is also a source for trouble. hopefully with today laser measuring tables and devices, we can expect a good lining and spacing between parts.

Originally that is on the bridge that the spacing begins, as there are more strings by bridge length in the rounded part of the treble bridge. and the boring distance should not be less large than 13 mm or the parts will rub.

about moving the shank out of the 90° of the rail, this is advantageous to limit crown lateral motion around the break.

I even think it may serves to balance the hammer mass better. There is more mass on one side of the shank. within limits, of course.