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#2284426 - 06/02/14 03:16 AM Digital Piano recommendation
photocrazy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 1
Loc: canada
My 6 yrs old daughter has started her piano class and the tutor insists we buy a digital piano for her.she suggested one with 88 keys. since iam zero with musical instruments, i would need some suggestions and recommendations. I saw casio cdp220 for $400 and casio privia px-15 for $550. and there is yamaha p35 for $500. what would you suggest? do a starter really need 88 keys? how about a piano with 61 keys?

thanks in advance for your time

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#2284430 - 06/02/14 03:40 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2323
Loc: UK
You should post this in the digital pianos forum. But first browse the thread about Digital Pianos under $1000.

IMHO you should start with 88 keys. 'Need' 88 is a different question. The CDP220 and PX150 are decent for the price. I would not recommend the P35. There are others, better, more functions, what is the budget. Maybe the tutor can help? Another option is rental, piano or digital.

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#2284448 - 06/02/14 05:48 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1400
Loc: Australia
I guess if I were the parent of a 6 yr old starting piano I would be wary of spending too much on a piano. The child may give up or even decide to change instruments down the track.

There is a thread right now over on the digital piano forum on this subject but like spanishbuddha I would not recommend the Yamaha P35 (I have the P105 and am quite happy with that).

Here is a link to some reading on the matter.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

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#2284481 - 06/02/14 07:49 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 249
Loc: USA
It all depends on the child, but 61-key will not last 1 year if the child makes any progress. If the child quits in 6 months, it is fine. Need 88 keys as soon as possible otherwise. The P35 is better than 61 or 76 keys, but not a good long term tool. P105 is OK for 2 to 3 years for average child. Longer term, P155 or better.

Always consider upgrading to acoustic as possibility but keep in mind a digital is easily as good as an acoustic piano 3 times its price. So a $1000 digital should be at least as good as a $3000 acoustic piano, or a $1500 acoustic piano is likely not as good as a $700 digital piano. (guideline doesn't seem to work as prices go up. $4000 digital isn't necessarily better than a $12000 acoustic.)
_________________________
Practice is never finished, only abandoned.
Studying RCM Level 5 | Yamaha C3X

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#2285474 - 06/04/14 02:41 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: 8 Octaves]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1175
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Of the pianos you mention:

. . . If you can afford the Casio PX-150, buy it.

Within that price range, it's more "piano-like" in its action (the physical keyboard mechanism) than anything else.

The problem with 61-key keyboards is that most of them _don't_ have "weighted keys". "Weighted keys" is what acoustic pianos have. If your daughter has a non-weighted keyboard ("synth action") at home, she will have a lot of adjusting to do when she takes a lesson on an acoustic piano, or a digital piano with a weighted keyboard.

The difference is obvious to someone who plays piano. I don't know if it will be obvious to you.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I own a PX-350, which is a fancy version of the PX-150.

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#2285499 - 06/04/14 05:00 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Charles Cohen]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 951
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
The problem with 61-key keyboards is that most of them _don't_ have "weighted keys". "Weighted keys" is what acoustic pianos have. If your daughter has a non-weighted keyboard ("synth action") at home, she will have a lot of adjusting to do when she takes a lesson on an acoustic piano, or a digital piano with a weighted keyboard.

Are there any 61 key weighted keyboards? I know there are a few 76 key ones.

The main reason to get weighted keys, even for a child just starting out, is that it will help her with finger independence. So I'd be more concerned about feel than sound quality. Maybe you can find something used just until you see if she will be dedicated to it. I understand the problem. At that age, they change their mind so dramatically.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 21+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

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#2285564 - 06/04/14 08:14 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Brian Lucas]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11427
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
The problem with 61-key keyboards is that most of them _don't_ have "weighted keys". "Weighted keys" is what acoustic pianos have. If your daughter has a non-weighted keyboard ("synth action") at home, she will have a lot of adjusting to do when she takes a lesson on an acoustic piano, or a digital piano with a weighted keyboard.

Are there any 61 key weighted keyboards? I know there are a few 76 key ones.

The main reason to get weighted keys, even for a child just starting out, is that it will help her with finger independence. So I'd be more concerned about feel than sound quality. Maybe you can find something used just until you see if she will be dedicated to it. I understand the problem. At that age, they change their mind so dramatically.


Most keyboards with less than 88 keys have a spring action. They aren't really weighted so much as have some resistance, but it is nothing like an acoustic piano. With 88 keys, at least, you know the manufacturer is trying to mimic the feel of an acoustic.

Here are a couple of things to consider about purchasing a piano (sorry this is kind of long). When I was young, I begged my parents to let me play piano. My older sister was taking lessons at the time and so they thought I just wanted to do it because she was doing it. I kept begging, though, so they said OK, but I had to promise to stick with piano for at least 10 years. I was 5 at the time, and had no idea what 10 years meant, but it was a good promise to make because they knew piano would take that long to be something to last my lifetime.

While I don't suggest necessarily your daughter agree to 10 years, perhaps if you are making a $500 purchase, you first have her agree to a certain amount of time taking lessons that you feel would be suitable to justify spending that dollar amount. A return on your investment, if you will. I think it's important that she understand she just can't stop piano at the first sign of difficulty if you are to invest in an instrument and lessons.

If you are worried, however, then perhaps renting is the best option. Many piano stores will give you a rental digital piano for a monthly fee of around $40. After 6 months, you can use your rent payments as a downpayment towards a new instrument with them - digital or acoustic, or you can continue renting (not recommended), or discontinue renting. You may even be able to discontinue the rental prior to 6 months being over, I think, but not sure.

I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students. So if that's any assurance, if you support her in her studies, she will continue the lessons and get the most out of your piano purchase.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2285590 - 06/04/14 08:57 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
JazzyMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 80
I love the Yamaha P155 I bought last April. Looks like the P255 is out as the new version. I recently got the MoXF6 to use when I traveled. I love the light weight, the extra sounds, and the--okay, I confess--looks with the MoXF6, and the chance to "play around", but I was very happy to come back to my P155 and the piano feel.

I purchased it at Guitar Center and was pretty ecstatic to get a great deal at the time brand new. The price I paid is still less than what companies are selling it now.

Every now and then my piano teacher comes over and she LOVES my Yamaha. She wants to hold an adults-only recital at my house.
_________________________
Hobby 1: Photography. Bucket List 1: Learning Piano

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#2285704 - 06/04/14 01:33 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1175
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
. . .
I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students. . . .


Sorry for the thread drift, but I have to ask:

. . . Did they start with unrealistic expectations about
. . . how long it would take, and how much time it would
. . . take, to "learn piano" ?

Thanks --

. Charles

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#2285713 - 06/04/14 01:45 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Morodiene]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 951
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Most keyboards with less than 88 keys have a spring action. They aren't really weighted so much as have some resistance, but it is nothing like an acoustic piano. With 88 keys, at least, you know the manufacturer is trying to mimic the feel of an acoustic.

To be fair though, no 2 acoustics have the same feel. I've had to play some pretty crappy acoustics that had some resistance at best. I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 21+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

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#2285737 - 06/04/14 02:42 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Brian Lucas]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11427
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Most keyboards with less than 88 keys have a spring action. They aren't really weighted so much as have some resistance, but it is nothing like an acoustic piano. With 88 keys, at least, you know the manufacturer is trying to mimic the feel of an acoustic.

To be fair though, no 2 acoustics have the same feel. I've had to play some pretty crappy acoustics that had some resistance at best. I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.


That's not the point of my post. Digital pianos are trying to mimic a GOOD acoustic, not a crappy unregulated one. A "keyboard" or "synth" may or may not be trying to mimic a good acoustic piano action. When you get to 88 keys the chances are better you will get a better acoustic (non-synth) action, but not 100% always.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2285834 - 06/04/14 06:36 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Morodiene]
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 249
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students.


Yes, they were all adults because of that contract you make them sign in blood to not quit your studio for 10 years. Like you said, children do not know how long that is. laugh
_________________________
Practice is never finished, only abandoned.
Studying RCM Level 5 | Yamaha C3X

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#2285858 - 06/04/14 08:34 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: 8 Octaves]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11427
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: 8 Octaves
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students.


Yes, they were all adults because of that contract you make them sign in blood to not quit your studio for 10 years. Like you said, children do not know how long that is. laugh
LOL! No, adults just don't have someone in their corner at home every day encouraging them (or making them if need be) practice. Not everyone is self-motivated. frown
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2286095 - 06/05/14 12:04 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1175
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . . LOL! No, adults just don't have someone in their corner at home every day encouraging them (or making them if need be) practice. Not everyone is self-motivated.


That sounds about right.

I'm on a lesson-every-two-weeks schedule with my teacher (who has mostly adult students). She said:

. . . "I usually don't encourage that. A lot of people don't make
. . . any progress, and quit. But you _do_ practice between lessons."

I'm just getting good enough to enjoy my own playing, thank God!

. Charles

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#2286111 - 06/05/14 01:03 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
Starr Keys Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 960
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.


Digitals can have a heavy touch too. The VPC1 is a good example. I practice on all types of pianos in the college practice rooms, including some good grands, and none of them have as heavy a touch as it does.

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#2286146 - 06/05/14 02:13 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3452
Loc: Northern England.
It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2286167 - 06/05/14 02:51 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Charles Cohen]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11427
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
. . .
I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students. . . .


Sorry for the thread drift, but I have to ask:

. . . Did they start with unrealistic expectations about
. . . how long it would take, and how much time it would
. . . take, to "learn piano" ?

Thanks --

. Charles


Yes, most of them thought they could learn it very quickly, despite me telling them in the interview what was realistic. Some of them it was more a matter of not being able to set aside the 15-20 minutes per day/4-5 days per week I had recommended for practice.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2286198 - 06/05/14 03:53 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
AZ_Astro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 436
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: photocrazy
My 6 yrs old daughter has started her piano class and the tutor insists we buy a digital piano for her.she suggested one with 88 keys. since iam zero with musical instruments, i would need some suggestions and recommendations. I saw casio cdp220 for $400 and casio privia px-15 for $550. and there is yamaha p35 for $500. what would you suggest? do a starter really need 88 keys? how about a piano with 61 keys?

thanks in advance for your time



You want an 88-key keyboard with weighted keys and grand piano sound.

In the $600 range, you should consider the Yamaha P105. Very nice for the price and it will serve your daughter well for the first two (possibly more) years of her piano journey.

Go to a Guitar Center and try one (or a comparable) out.

There are lots of comparable digital pianos. The P-155, mentioned above, is quite a lot nicer than the P-105. It's around $1000.

Good luck
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2286231 - 06/05/14 05:03 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: peterws]
Starr Keys Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 960
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: peterws
It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .


I was thinking the exact same thing after my post. Last year I took singing lesson with someone who had a Yamaha Cabinet Grand knock-off from China. Man was that thing stiff and heavy. She was a terrible accompanist and I wondered if it had something to do with the fact that this thing was so hard to play. When I accompanied my vocals at her house recitals, I always brought my portable digital with stand. And I noticed her piano students never played without a million mistakes, even when they said they did it perfectly at home. I felt so sorry for her little kids, when I couldn't even play this thing without getting a sore arm.

Quote:
I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .


Do you think the VPC1 is an example of the latter or the former?



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#2286377 - 06/05/14 11:19 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: peterws]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 951
Originally Posted By: peterws
It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

That was kind of my point. Digital or acoustic can both be good or bad. Just know what you're getting into. Best to put your hands on it before purchasing. Especially for a young kid, you want some weight to it, but maybe not such a heavy action.

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 21+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

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#2286385 - 06/05/14 11:41 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Brian Lucas]
Starr Keys Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 960
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucus
By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.


I don't know if "a lot less concern" is accurate. I've read more than one post from musicians, amateur and professional, who claim to have gotten Tendonitus playing on 88-key Casio's, and I may have myself. But the technology may have changed in the last two years to the extent that this doesn't happen as much.

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#2286483 - 06/06/14 08:05 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Starr Keys]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11427
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucus
By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.


I don't know if "a lot less concern" is accurate. I've read more than one post from musicians, amateur and professional, who claim to have gotten Tendonitus playing on 88-key Casio's, and I may have myself. But the technology may have changed in the last two years to the extent that this doesn't happen as much.


Maybe not heavy keys/action, but there are other issues that can arise from playing certain digitals, even high-quality ones. The VPC1 does have a heavy action and I would not recommend it for a child, but it is a very good action for an experienced piano player.

In the price range the OP is talking about, however, I don't think he has too many options. The new Casio PX-150 has a good action I'm told.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2286561 - 06/06/14 11:43 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Brian Lucas]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3452
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Originally Posted By: peterws
It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

That was kind of my point. Digital or acoustic can both be good or bad. Just know what you're getting into. Best to put your hands on it before purchasing. Especially for a young kid, you want some weight to it, but maybe not such a heavy action.

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.


Most are too heavy for me to feel comfortable with. GHS has it`s setbacks but it`s really light; you can flick the notes and make `em bounce. Kawai ES7 and CN24 etc have excellent actions imo. I`d love one o` those in my piano . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2286570 - 06/06/14 12:07 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: peterws]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: peterws
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Originally Posted By: peterws
It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

That was kind of my point. Digital or acoustic can both be good or bad. Just know what you're getting into. Best to put your hands on it before purchasing. Especially for a young kid, you want some weight to it, but maybe not such a heavy action.

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.


Most are too heavy for me to feel comfortable with. GHS has it`s setbacks but it`s really light; you can flick the notes and make `em bounce. Kawai ES7 and CN24 etc have excellent actions imo. I`d love one o` those in my piano . . .


VPC1 yes, it's on the heavier side, but, to real heavy action is has still really many steps still to come.
btw Peterws, I don't know how you can find Kawai wooden action heavier than GHS? shocked
the yamaha action is heavy and quite strange... and GHS well... you could do better buying roland or casio, but each to it's own liking.

In the top down price the PX150 is no brainer.

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#2286580 - 06/06/14 12:25 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1162
Loc: uk south
I use a VPC1 as my main keyboard but when I'm away from base I take a Px150. I've been using only the casio for the last 4 weeks very happily. It's noticeably noiser than the Kawai (most Kawais are quiet) but this is a non-issue when you're playing either with headphones, or when playing through the PX150's own speakers at a decent 'realistic' level. I don't think the PX150 is bettered at its price point.

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#2286606 - 06/06/14 01:39 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: dire tonic]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
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Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: dire tonic
I use a VPC1 as my main keyboard but when I'm away from base I take a Px150. I've been using only the casio for the last 4 weeks very happily. It's noticeably noiser than the Kawai (most Kawais are quiet) but this is a non-issue when you're playing either with headphones, or when playing through the PX150's own speakers at a decent 'realistic' level. I don't think the PX150 is bettered at its price point.


How does the action on the Casio compare with the VPC1? Have you practiced on it for long periods of time?
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#2286619 - 06/06/14 02:14 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: photocrazy]
ShiroKuro Offline
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Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3415
Loc: not in Japan anymore
On the subject of tendonitis and digital pianos... I had an acoustic for 9 years, but now only have a digital. I have a Yamaha Arius YDP 160, my mother has a 140 and my mother-in-law has my old Yamaha digital from the dark ages (I think it's like a YDP 120 or something, it's about 15 years old). And I have always had teachers with nicely maintained grands. So my mental model of playing is the acoustic keyboard. My YDP160 isn't too bad, but I find it much easier to do dynamic shading on my teacher's acoustic grand. And when I play either at my mother's or at my mother-in-law's, I often find myself with sore fingers afterwards. I realized it's because I don't get the response I expect and am sort of banging or playing harder. It's hard to articulate, but I can see how if one of those were my daily piano, I would definitely be at a tendonitis risk. I wonder if this is as much of an issue for beginners though, because they don't have a particular sound in mind and are not as tuned in to dynamics. (no pun intended!)

Sorry for the thread drift. To the OP, good luck choosing a piano. I think you've gotten lots of good advice here. I hope you find a good instrument within your budget and that you are able to get your daughter started with lessons soon!
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#2286633 - 06/06/14 02:40 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Morodiene]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1162
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
How does the action on the Casio compare with the VPC1? Have you practiced on it for long periods of time?


They're quite different. I spent over a year using nothing but the Casio and almost a year now with the VPC1. I wish I could be specific but it's hard to pin down. The VPC1 action is heavier, requires more energy for the same speed, but in the playing it also feels much more solid than the Casio - which is probably a reflection of Casio's lightweight plastic construction vs Kawais use of much more dense materials and, of course, wooden keys. Somehow, when you play the two keyboards you can almost sense the difference in their weight (VPC1-65lbs, Casio 25 lbs) But the Casio's action offers up good resistance, very effective as a practise keyboard and not radically different from many AP actions.

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#2286740 - 06/06/14 07:06 PM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: Starr Keys]
Brian Lucas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 951
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucus
By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.


I don't know if "a lot less concern" is accurate. I've read more than one post from musicians, amateur and professional, who claim to have gotten Tendonitus playing on 88-key Casio's, and I may have myself. But the technology may have changed in the last two years to the extent that this doesn't happen as much.

I misspoke a little. I meant that in a digital, you know what you're getting based on the model. 2 of the same model keyboards will be virtually identical. If you're buying an acoustic, especially used, you'll have to try it out to see what the action is and what kind of condition it's in. Sorry for not being clear.
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#2286822 - 06/07/14 12:34 AM Re: Digital Piano recommendation [Re: ShiroKuro]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1175
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: ShiroKuro
. . . My YDP160 isn't too bad, but I find it much easier to do dynamic shading on my teacher's acoustic grand. And when I play either at my mother's or at my mother-in-law's, I often find myself with sore fingers afterwards. I realized it's because I don't get the response I expect and am sort of banging or playing harder. It's hard to articulate, but I can see how if one of those were my daily piano, I would definitely be at a tendonitis risk. . . . (no pun intended!)


Two things may be happening:

1. You may be trying to reach levels of volume, on the DP's, that they can't deliver. It's a rare DP that has loudspeakers and amps powerful enough to sound as loud as an acoustic upright, much less a grand.

2. You may be trying to achieve the bright tone quality that an acoustic piano has, when it's played _hard_. Some DP's (especially the newer ones) can deliver something like that; I don't think the old ones can do it.

So turn up the volume, and keep conscious of how hard you're hitting the keys . . .

. Charles

PS -- the answer to this problem is to use Pianoteq, and set up a custom velocity curve. I found that I _could not_ get my PX-350 up to velocity = 127, even pounding it.

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