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The problem with 61-key keyboards is that most of them _don't_ have "weighted keys". "Weighted keys" is what acoustic pianos have. If your daughter has a non-weighted keyboard ("synth action") at home, she will have a lot of adjusting to do when she takes a lesson on an acoustic piano, or a digital piano with a weighted keyboard.

Are there any 61 key weighted keyboards? I know there are a few 76 key ones.

The main reason to get weighted keys, even for a child just starting out, is that it will help her with finger independence. So I'd be more concerned about feel than sound quality. Maybe you can find something used just until you see if she will be dedicated to it. I understand the problem. At that age, they change their mind so dramatically.

. . .
I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students. . . .

Most keyboards with less than 88 keys have a spring action. They aren't really weighted so much as have some resistance, but it is nothing like an acoustic piano. With 88 keys, at least, you know the manufacturer is trying to mimic the feel of an acoustic.

To be fair though, no 2 acoustics have the same feel. I've had to play some pretty crappy acoustics that had some resistance at best. I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.

I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students.

Yes, they were all adults because of that contract you make them sign in blood to not quit your studio for 10 years. Like you said, children do not know how long that is.

. . . LOL! No, adults just don't have someone in their corner at home every day encouraging them (or making them if need be) practice. Not everyone is self-motivated.

I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.

Sorry for the thread drift, but I have to ask:

. . . Did they start with unrealistic expectations about
. . . how long it would take, and how much time it would
. . . take, to "learn piano" ?

Thanks --

. Charles

My 6 yrs old daughter has started her piano class and the tutor insists we buy a digital piano for her.she suggested one with 88 keys. since iam zero with musical instruments, i would need some suggestions and recommendations. I saw casio cdp220 for $400 and casio privia px-15 for $550. and there is yamaha p35 for $500. what would you suggest? do a starter really need 88 keys? how about a piano with 61 keys?

thanks in advance for your time

It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.

I don't know if "a lot less concern" is accurate. I've read more than one post from musicians, amateur and professional, who claim to have gotten Tendonitus playing on 88-key Casio's, and I may have myself. But the technology may have changed in the last two years to the extent that this doesn't happen as much.

That was kind of my point. Digital or acoustic can both be good or bad. Just know what you're getting into. Best to put your hands on it before purchasing. Especially for a young kid, you want some weight to it, but maybe not such a heavy action.

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.

Most are too heavy for me to feel comfortable with. GHS has it`s setbacks but it`s really light; you can flick the notes and make `em bounce. Kawai ES7 and CN24 etc have excellent actions imo. I`d love one o` those in my piano . . .

I use a VPC1 as my main keyboard but when I'm away from base I take a Px150. I've been using only the casio for the last 4 weeks very happily. It's noticeably noiser than the Kawai (most Kawais are quiet) but this is a non-issue when you're playing either with headphones, or when playing through the PX150's own speakers at a decent 'realistic' level. I don't think the PX150 is bettered at its price point.

How does the action on the Casio compare with the VPC1? Have you practiced on it for long periods of time?

I don't know if "a lot less concern" is accurate. I've read more than one post from musicians, amateur and professional, who claim to have gotten Tendonitus playing on 88-key Casio's, and I may have myself. But the technology may have changed in the last two years to the extent that this doesn't happen as much.

. . . My YDP160 isn't too bad, but I find it much easier to do dynamic shading on my teacher's acoustic grand. And when I play either at my mother's or at my mother-in-law's, I often find myself with sore fingers afterwards. I realized it's because I don't get the response I expect and am sort of banging or playing harder. It's hard to articulate, but I can see how if one of those were my daily piano, I would definitely be at a tendonitis risk. . . . (no pun intended!)

I misspoke a little. I meant that in a digital, you know what you're getting based on the model. 2 of the same model keyboards will be virtually identical. If you're buying an acoustic, especially used, you'll have to try it out to see what the action is and what kind of condition it's in. Sorry for not being clear.

It's very tempting to play digitals at low volume when using the speakers, so as not to disturb others. This will have the effect of encouraging thumping, which in turn predisposes the player to injuries. Another unfortunate side-effect is that the player never learns to play softly - because, in effect, he's using the volume control on the digital to control the loudness (and it's always easier to play loudly than softly, which requires much more control).

If you want to develop proper piano (as opposed to 'keyboard') technique, you have to play your digital as if it's an acoustic. Therefore, you should set the volume control high enough to simulate the volume from an acoustic when played with the same force. Use headphones if you don't want to disturb others, not turn the volume control down to unrealistically low levels. Not even occasionally. How can any learner pianist develop proper control of tone and dynamics if there is no consistent correlation between how hard he strikes the keys and how loud (and 'brilliant') the sound is - no matter how good the digital?

I've been playing my digital for four years. I've only altered the volume control once - when I replaced my old headphones with a better pair, which has higher impedance and lower sensitivity (therefore requiring a higher volume setting for the same volume). My digital has no speakers - and there is no point in me obtaining any, because I have neighbor problems, so I use headphones exclusively. And I have no problems transferring whatever I've practiced on my digital to any acoustic. (I give a mini-recital to colleagues once a month on an acoustic grand).

BTW, you'll find that a few classical concert pianists who use digitals for late-night practising blog about playing them with the volume control turned right down. Bear in mind that they have real grands to practice on daily, during more social hours; and most of them only use their digitals for specific technical 'drills' (e.g. for mastering tricky sections) and to learn new pieces, to 'get the notes into their fingers' and getting the fingerings sorted out, before going on to interpretative aspects. And they've long ago mastered the control of touch, tone and dynamics required for advanced classical music......