It is either 6'0" or 6'1".
Kawai web indicates RX-3, GS-30 and KG-3 are all 6'1". HOWEVER, ads are all over the web for KG-3's indicating 6'0". Yet, I see no "official" Kawai info indicating they EVER made a 6'0" grand.

Now, before I get flamed with the "who the hell cares" posts, I am in the process of looking at a particular KG-3 for purchase. Piano movers use 6'0" as the cutoff for a price jump!!!! If the thing is 6'1" (as I suspect it is), shipping gets bumped quite a bit. But if I am right on size, how can so many dealers not know the correct size of this piano?

Never thought one inch could cause this much trouble.....

I think the KG-3 was originally listed as a 6'0" piano. They say it superseded the RX-3 which is a 6'1" piano. There is a KG-3 available locally to me and it is listed as 5'10"...

... just tell them it is a 'small one.'

I believe the 5'10" is the KG-2.
I can't find any information to indicate Kawai ever made a 6'0". Where do you see it "originally listed" as a 6'0"?
Thanks for the help...

Yes, I , like you, believe the KG-2 to be a 5'10". However, I was in the shop looking at what the dealer had displayed as a 5'10" used Kawai. We even measured it (with the lid up) and it scarecely came to 5'11.

Imagine my shock and amazement when I looked at the plate and saw KG-3 stamped on it!

It was an older (1970) piano and had the sound commensurate with it's size, but was in rougher condition than I think I would have been happy with long-term. Another oddity was that it only had two pedals. When I brought this up to the dealer he asked if I used the middle pedal. When I told him I didn't he just kinda smirked at me.

This dealer asked $8000 for this one.

Two pedals on a Kawai generally indicates that the piano is grey market.

I though the KG3 was 6'1" too, like the RX3. The KG2 I played was 5'10. But the KG3 preceded, not superceded, the RX3.

Thw KG-2 is 5'10.5", and the KG-3 is 6'0". What's interesting is that the specs for both pianos show a #1 bass string length that is the same, and soundboard area in sq/inches that is the same. Both pianos also sound about the same.

I dunno, but $8000 for a rough looking (as you say) 1970 KG seems pretty high to me. Has it ever been rebuilt? I got a 1987 Kawai CA-40M 60th anniversary model in near mint condition for a couple of thousand more a few months ago. It is 6' 1".

That said, I'm not sure the one you are looking at is a grey market, because I thought (you probably should check on this) the KG series was built for the US market, whereas the CA series is the same and slightly newer model, but built for the Japanese market. I know for a fact that my piano is grey market, but that is not an issue for me. It has all three pedals, but like you said, who ever uses the middle one anyway?

Also, I personally would not get a Kawai piano without the ABS action parts, which replaces the wood in some sections of the action. ABS is not susceptible to humidity and climate changes, which makes the action more consistent over time. The newest Kawais use carbon fiber in the action, which makes it lighter and faster and probably much stronger. Carbon fiber is used in brake rotors and drive shafts for Indy cars, so that tells you how strong it is.

Just my two cents. Good hunting

But the KG3 preceded, not superceded, the RX3.[/b]

Actually, neither one.

The KG-3 was a 6'. Years before the RX series came about, everything from 6' up became the GS series. There was a KG1, which was at first a 5'1 then grew to 5'4, a KG2 which was 5'10, maybe 5'101/2, I never kept that close an eye on it. The KG3,4,5,6, and so on were discontinued and replace by the GS series. The KG3 grew to 6'1" and became the GS-30, which then became the GS-40, which was retired when the RX series came out, the RX3 being the updated version of a GS40.

A KG3 is getting a bit long in the tooth. 8K is on the high side in my opinion, but have a tech check it out. If it's in good shape it might be worth it.

Edit: just noticed it's a 1970. I would not recommend anyone buy a Japanese piano that old, for any amount of money.

Carbon fiber is used in brake rotors and drive shafts for Indy cars, so that tells you how strong it is.[/b]

Careful - one does not speak for the other any more than the dash of a car equates with a drinking straw. Both of those are plastic, but they just aren't the same. Kawai action parts with carbon in them are not going to stop a car anytime soon.

Good point Larry, but the car would probably stop faster than with rotors made of wood!

I don't know.... I think the wooden ones would catch fire, and the ABS ones would melt. The question would be which one has the highest flash point, I guess. I think the wood would be last to go... well actually, I think the car would hit the wall long before we found out the answer with either one of them......

Actually though, hard maple is actually used as bearings in some machinery where certain caustic chemicals that eat metal are present - so if you made the brake drums out of hard maple, it might just stop the car...

About what size to tell the movers:

If you cannot give the exact size, it's better to err on being conservative and assume that larger size, IMO.

If you have tricky hallways or turns, it doesn't do anyone any good to underestimate the size.

And, who knows, depending on the size assumption, the moving company may decide to send a crew of two versus a crew of three. (A moving company once sent a crew of two to move my 6'6" grand because the guy on the phone some how wrote down "baby grand." That didn't work. They had to call in two more backups to finish the job.)

It could be the third person in the crew that determines whether they charge you a higher or lower price, and that third person may be crucial to the success of the move and critical to the safety of your piano.

Weigh the risk carefully.

Good luck.

Larry,

Thanks for the sequence on the Kawai models.

Larry,

The KG-3 I am investigating is a mid-eighties model. VERY nice. Tech is checking it for me. Price is $8000. Called Kawai to have the serial number run. Kawai thinks it is grey market, but couldn't say for sure. Were KG's USA only pianos? If it checks out, is price fair? Why does Kawai web indicate KG-3 is same size as GS-30 (6'1")?
Thanks so much for the help.

pgl911,

This might be of interest to you: Kawai model number decoder ring .

(Also, could it be that the 6'0" vs. 6'1" a matter of rounding confusion? The Japanese build pianos using metric measurements in centimeters... so it could be just a matter of rounding up to 6'1" or rounding down to 6'0" given a length measure originally specified in centimeters.)

Axtremus-

That sure makes a lot of sense. I have seen too many KG-3's listed by dealers at 6'0". Trying to square this with "official" Kawai info at 6'1" just made no sense. You may well be right. Wish I had a KG-3 and an RX-3 side by side to measure. My guess is that the KG-3 would come up just a bit shorter.

By the way, any opinion on the price????

Thanks much.

Paul,

There are lots of problems with piano measurements as specified by manufacturers.

The original KG-3 was called a 6' piano during the early 70s. It was measured from the front of the key slip to the back of the rim, and measured a little under 6' in length. Piano manufacturers generally round up to the nearest inch.

When the KG-3C was introduced in 1972 the styling was changed a little, and the lid overhang was larger than the earlier version, and the company decided to start measuring with the lid closed. The measurement was about 6' 1/2" which was rounded up to 6'1".

The KG-3 was made at the same time as the GS-30 and GS-40 for some years, through the 'D' version. The designs were quite different, and although both were considered 6'1" pianos the GS-30/40 was, I think, about 1/4" longer.

A KG-3 from the 80s with 2 pedals will be a Japanese market piano. All US Kawai grand pianos had 3 pedals.

Tell the movers it's a 6' piano, and raise the lid if they decide to measure it. I have never worked with a mover who charges different for 1" over a given length. All the ones I have worked with consider everything from 5'10" to 6'3" a "6 foot" piano. Once you get to 6'6" then they will use a 7' skid board and charge more.

Thanks Don-

After much soul searching, I've committed to purchasing an RX-3 with the new carbon action. The reason? First, the thing flat-out blew me away. Second, the action is amazing. Third, the price to value is tough to beat. And last, no one will argue Kawai's 10 year warranty and committment to customer satisfaction. So I trashed my budget and made the jump. Now I have to wait on delivery.....

Thanks again for your help, Don.

pgl, wise choice. You will be very happy.

pgl911,

Congratulations on the new piano![/b]

Paul,

Wow - nice choice! I'm going to be in Akron doing a technicians seminar in about a week - if you are in that part of the state, feel free to come hear more about your new action design!

Pellegrino Music, Tuesday 3/15/05 in the evening.

I am in the market for a 6' grand piano, so I have learned a little about the KG-3C. Apparently, the KG-3C (early-mid 1980s) is the predecessor to the CA-40, and eventually the RX-3 (or 5). The dealer I was looking at who had the KG told me that the KG was actually 6'0", and not 6'1"

The pianos that I have been researching and looking at are the Kohler and Campbell (650) (Millenium Series), at $10,400 (includes tax) + $400 delivery (new), a used 1982 Kawai KG-3C (very good condition, at $10,000 + $600 (tax)+ $300 delivery, and a Brodmann 187 (6'2") for $11,000 (new). The Brodmann's price already has tax and delivery included in it. I think the Kawai is probably overpriced (if it was a GS-30 or GS-40, the $10,000 base price would be more in line, I think). The Kohler is a nice piano, to be sure, but I was blown away by the quality and tone of the Brodmann 187.

The only thing that concerns me about the Brodmann is the fact that although it has top quality components, it is assembled in China, and only for a few years now. And apparently the Brodmanns from 2005 had a few quality issues, that I have been told have been worked out.

Buying a $1000 piano is one thing.. if it turns out to be a lemon, then I can deal with that a heck of a lot easier than making an $11,000 mistake.

Sorry for the rambling.. buying a piano is almost as difficult as buying a car.. and the dealers can be pretty shady if you're not careful.

KG3C is not the predessesor to the CA-40 The
CA-40 is a gray market mdl.6'1" similar to the GS40 as for harp and case design but with ABS flanges but with wood shanks. KG3C was of Kawai's lesser series in my opinion / KG series. I would pass on the KG3C and consider your other options