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#2285194 - 06/03/14 01:52 PM Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55
kaanguner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 91
I'm not exactly sure about measure numbers but it is the part where you hit quarter notes making two sentences. It's self explanatory for anyone who knows the piece.

My question is about fingering. I have a fingering which i myself learned to my liking. But now that I'm looking at some threads some people use a different fingering.

My fingering is: 3432 1543 2432 1231 2342 4123 4312 3232

But I found two comments which tells: 3432 1432 1432.. and the way i go back differs too.

So is that matters? Like for playing it fast some movements are better than others etcetera. I learned that part this way and instinctivly I want to keep it like that. But if there are obstacles ahead and high tempos that'll appear to me, I'm ready to re-learn.

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#2285282 - 06/03/14 05:25 PM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Quote:
I'm not exactly sure about measure numbers but it is the part where you hit quarter notes making two sentences. It's self explanatory for anyone who knows the piece.

I've played this piece for 20 years, and I don't know anywhere in it that a series of quarter notes make two "sentences".

Now, based on the fingering and measure numbers you've provided, I'm going to guess that you have the measures correct, and work with that section. But this section has 16th notes and 8th notes, so if there is a quarter note giving you trouble, it isn't here.

This passage isn't particularly fast, nor very demanding, so you can use either fingering. In general, the thumb on the black key in the 2nd fingering means you have to move your hand in. Many pianists try to avoid this movement by placing the 2nd finger on the black key (F#) instead.

If you're looking for an alternative, try 3432 1213 2432

You might find it easier than trying to go from thumb to pinky. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2285381 - 06/03/14 09:50 PM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1230
Loc: western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: kaanguner
I'm not exactly sure about measure numbers but it is the part where you hit quarter notes making two sentences. It's self explanatory for anyone who knows the piece.

My question is about fingering. I have a fingering which i myself learned to my liking. But now that I'm looking at some threads some people use a different fingering.

My fingering is: 3432 1543 2432 1231 2342 4123 4312 3232

But I found two comments which tells: 3432 1432 1432.. and the way i go back differs too.

So is that matters? Like for playing it fast some movements are better than others etcetera. I learned that part this way and instinctivly I want to keep it like that. But if there are obstacles ahead and high tempos that'll appear to me, I'm ready to re-learn.

If yours works for you then keep yours!

You should probably check it at tempo to make sure. You don't have to learn the whole passage up to tempo to do this. Just try groups of three or four notes at a time, in fast short bursts with big pauses in between, with your fingering. You'll find out if any of your choices are not optimal for the performance tempo.
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Working on: Schumann/Kinderszenen
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
I love Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

Top
#2285651 - 06/04/14 11:55 AM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: Derulux]
kaanguner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 91
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Quote:
I'm not exactly sure about measure numbers but it is the part where you hit quarter notes making two sentences. It's self explanatory for anyone who knows the piece.

I've played this piece for 20 years, and I don't know anywhere in it that a series of quarter notes make two "sentences".

Now, based on the fingering and measure numbers you've provided, I'm going to guess that you have the measures correct, and work with that section. But this section has 16th notes and 8th notes, so if there is a quarter note giving you trouble, it isn't here.

This passage isn't particularly fast, nor very demanding, so you can use either fingering. In general, the thumb on the black key in the 2nd fingering means you have to move your hand in. Many pianists try to avoid this movement by placing the 2nd finger on the black key (F#) instead.

If you're looking for an alternative, try 3432 1213 2432

You might find it easier than trying to go from thumb to pinky. smile


So what i should be avoiding is putting my thumb at the black keys not going from pinky to thumb?

So fingering issue is mostly for the expression at here I assume.

And sorry about the notes. I meant 16ths.

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#2285819 - 06/04/14 05:46 PM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: kaanguner
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Quote:
I'm not exactly sure about measure numbers but it is the part where you hit quarter notes making two sentences. It's self explanatory for anyone who knows the piece.

I've played this piece for 20 years, and I don't know anywhere in it that a series of quarter notes make two "sentences".

Now, based on the fingering and measure numbers you've provided, I'm going to guess that you have the measures correct, and work with that section. But this section has 16th notes and 8th notes, so if there is a quarter note giving you trouble, it isn't here.

This passage isn't particularly fast, nor very demanding, so you can use either fingering. In general, the thumb on the black key in the 2nd fingering means you have to move your hand in. Many pianists try to avoid this movement by placing the 2nd finger on the black key (F#) instead.

If you're looking for an alternative, try 3432 1213 2432

You might find it easier than trying to go from thumb to pinky. smile


So what i should be avoiding is putting my thumb at the black keys not going from pinky to thumb?

So fingering issue is mostly for the expression at here I assume.

And sorry about the notes. I meant 16ths.

One of the most basic goals of fingering is to facilitate expression. In other words, you find the most efficient way of producing the sound you're trying to achieve. Unfortunately, that means it is often very personal. There are some "standard" fingerings, but even those rules can be bent or broken.

If you find a fingering that is comfortable, and allows you to express what you're trying to express, then use it. Only switch fingerings if you can't get the sound you want, what you're doing is causing unnecessary tension, or you find something that works better/easier.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2285967 - 06/05/14 07:03 AM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
kaanguner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 91
But as a principle is it possible to say that:

Putting your thumb on black keys makes your hand move in forward so have to be avoided when possible

Going from pink to thumb is a big leap so must be avoided in fast passages?

Top
#2286020 - 06/05/14 09:39 AM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1230
Loc: western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: kaanguner
But as a principle is it possible to say that:

Putting your thumb on black keys makes your hand move in forward so have to be avoided when possible

Going from pink to thumb is a big leap so must be avoided in fast passages?

Sorry, there aren't really any general rules for fingering choices, except "do what is most efficient and produces the best sound for you for that particular group of notes" !

Usually people avoid putting the thumb on black keys right before or after a longer finger on an adjacent white key, just because most people find it inconvenient. Scale passages for example. (Your passage is basically a scale passage with a lot of U-turns.) But there are plenty of times when you would want to use the thumb on a black key, like anytime you need to cover a lot of distance in that direction -- a leap downward from D to F# followed by a leap upward to E would be easiest for most people with thumb on F#.

5-1 on adjacent notes is often a good choice. 4-1 is often easier, but it depends on the notes. I think Derulux was just suggesting a possibly easier alternative for this particular spot.
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Working on: Schumann/Kinderszenen
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
I love Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

Top
#2286118 - 06/05/14 01:10 PM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5353
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: kaanguner
But as a principle is it possible to say that:

Putting your thumb on black keys makes your hand move in forward so have to be avoided when possible

Going from pink to thumb is a big leap so must be avoided in fast passages?

You've already gotten one good reply to this, but I'll chime in, too. Do you find it awkward to do those things? Is it uncomfortable? Can you get the sound you want?

Ignore "principle" and pay more attention to "comfort" and "sound". They are far more important in the end.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2286474 - 06/06/14 07:47 AM Re: Rondo Alla Turca Measure 33-55 [Re: kaanguner]
kaanguner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 91
It's all appreciated. Thank you for your time.

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