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There's definitely enough slack to unplug for transport and a ladder tie is provided to wrap the cord up nicely for transport. It's made so the length of the cable will not reach the XLR output.

It's not bad at all really. Way better than it's getting credit for.

Edit: I confirmed with our service manager that in Canada, we would honour a warranty claim for any normal warranty situation except somebody undoing the modification and connecting the AC cable to the XLR Outputs and doing damage as a result of disregarding the warning sticker now affixed above the clamp.

Jay

I bet the replacement for the RD300 won't have an umbilical cord. I might also bet that Roland will be rolling out a RD800 mk2 asap.

That's not bad. Someone who wants to reverse the "fix", can do it, and risk the consequences. Roland won't penalize that choice.

Rather like a car with "stability/ traction control", and a button marked "Race Mode" that turns it off.

. Charles

PS -- this is not a defense of the original design.

That's why I already have, and other existing owners can, decline to have the modification fitted.

I am happy with the original arrangement, along with the very small inherent risk that went with it, and my original warranty remains intact.

What I objected to was the approach taken by Roland in almost forcing existing owners to adopt the mod, rather than us given a choice, and accepting the responsibility should we not have it fitted.

If they don't have a ground lead, why don't use a C17 connector instead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320).

A fixed cable? Really Roland. What you should do is recall all units and replace the connector completely.

It was not recalled. At least not from customers. They've gone down the route of implementing a solution that can be carried out by the end user.

Whilst a C17 (or more popularly a C14) would be the ideal solution, it likely wouldn't fit into the existing aperture. This would necessitate a significant modification.

I am tempted to say "so?" and that it's their problem.

A fixed cable is not acceptable if you are lugging your stuff around, especially with large plus and case issues.
Just having your keyboard amongst a lot of other equipment makes it shaky when you have to remove it with a cord following.
You detach the power cords and all cables from your equipment, put them all in their cases, then gather up all cords and cables and put them into a separate case.

Sorry for rambling, I just feel the solution is not acceptable (and I don't even own a RD-800, but I know how I would feel if it was the case for my equipment).

Whilst I agree with you, I feel that this would have made the recall last too long, potentially including top panel replacement/modification, power supply board replacement/modification and power supply mount replacement/modification. Then it would have to go through approval processes and certifications to ensure it wasn't breaching any other safety issues.

As people have mentioned, I'd wager they're working on a new design incorporating maybe a three pin and potentially shifting the socket to the other side. Whether this will be a soft launch that "just happens" in six months (ie, RD-800 rev 1), or a new product, who knows.

Also, as mentioned, XLR bungs might be an option for those that don't want to implement the modification. They won't eradicate the potential of plugging in the wrong socket, but they'll stop blind plugging mistakes.

Something like the Neutrik SCM could be fitted easily...


Or the Neutrik NDM if you don't want something hanging but could probably be lost...



Both are cheap options from Thomann.

By the way, what is the actual implications of plugging the mains into the XLR? Some people have mentioned being fried, but I was under the impression that it causes damage to the board (and not to you).

Totally agree, surely XLR caps or plugs and a warning label should have satisfied the liability aspect of this issue.

The modification currently being offered was conceived by Roland's R&D team in Japan, and for the UK was subsequently authorised by UK Trading Standards, to stop any potential for misconnection and the possibility of electrocution



It has been reported that metal parts of the keyboard can become 'live' is the power lead is connected to one of the XLR's.

Plugs would be an option obviously, but I don't think it covers them liability wise, since you would still have to option not to use them.

But in any case, if indeed the case can become "hot", it could potentially kill you if you are standing on grounding material without shoes and/or touching something else.
Personally I think I would always have the awareness of not plugging it wrong, but who knows. You're stressed, late on stage to set up and then wham, without realizing.

Slapping a fixed cord on due do a design error that can potentially cause such severe incidents is, in my opinion, not the right way to approach all those loyal Roland users who lug their stuff around.

A solution would be sprung XLR connectors, so a cap is permanently over the XLR input, and moves out of the way (lifting to one side) when you plug an XLR in. That would cover Roland legally and prevent any possible mess-ups on stage, which could cause harm, or damage.

This would be a relatively cheap retrofit for Roland (or their dealers) and would help, not hinder, the user.

Yeah, the current two screws (http://www.rolandce.com/mediafiles/images/products/large/RD-800_R_300.jpg) holding the XLR connectors should be able to, if exchanged with slightly longer ones, hold a spring action lid (assuming the spring is rather modest, but you just need the lid to be kept in place really).

Already suggested in my post dated 20th May, I even sent this to Roland UK in April...



If either attached bungs or sprung covers are used, the the user would physically have to remove the bung or open the cover to make a connection.

This in conjunction with a label would make it the responsibility of the user to get it right.

If the user left the bungs out (not a good idea when transporting the keyboard), then be it on their head.

Sorry to repeat an idea you already put forward, bgiles. But I agree with you, anyway, that it would be a neat solution which appears to cover all the problems and would be acceptable - or even a welcome improvement - for users.

I just didn't understand this bit:

If the user left the plugs out (not a good idea when transporting), then be it on their head.

If the sockets are always covered by either a sprung cap or the XLR itself, I don't see there can be any mistakes leading to accidents.

Toddy,
I'm very happy for anyone to repeat the idea, in the hope the message gets across to Roland. I'm not here for credit, just want a proper fix to the issue for everyone.

My mistake for not being clear, I would fully endorse the sprung XLR covers idea, no idea why they didn't take it up, maybe manufacturing costs/time, but it would be a proper solution, leaving no risk of inadvertent misconnection.



If Roland however chose the rubber bungs option, such as the Neutrik SCM as suggested by Cessquill, attached by wires to the keyboard, there would be no manufacturing costs or delays.
So, along with a warning label, the user would be foolish to leave them out for transportation, risking damage to the bungs, and subsequent misconnection, for which Roland can't be held responsible.

I think we all agree that the attached cable fix is a bad idea, so if anyone can come up with a better solution than the sprung XLR covers or plugs, that avoids a recall, and removes the risk, please share it, and then we can present our case to Roland.

No. Simply undoing this fix opens the door to the very real possibility of frying the DP and/or the player. And now Roland won't cover the damages.

If I owned an RD800 I'd put sprung XLR caps on there and remove this fix if it was previously applied. The sticker showing where to plug in AC is a good idea, but it's way too ugly and way too huge. Roland really should have silk screened indicators on that surface in the first place - angling all the I/O downward without indicators just about guarantees a major grope fest at setup/teardown.

I really wish Roland would stop playing these wacky style games with the RD line. A simple rectangular case gives you I/O on the back you can actually see, facilitates portability, and protects the keys better. Style is fine, in its place, but it shouldn't negatively impact functionality.

Yes to all of that. Thinking about it, if I'm to be honest, I'd probably filed away your post with the sprung cap idea away in my mind. Then a month later, I thought I'd thought of it myself.

This is ALWAYS happening with songs. I'll get a brilliant idea while I'm washing up the dishes. I'll go to record a rudimentary demo. I'll be thinking how very creative I am, and what a good idea it was not to have the dish-washing machine fixed.

Next day, it hits you: it's a virtual carbon copy of Elton John, Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchel or Stevie Wonder....or some lesser known writer, but the same story. Pain in the ass.

No you wouldn't! You just wouldn't plug the wrong wire in the wrong bleedin' hole! How about that for a workable solution?

We need a major war or famine or disease or to be attacked by an alien life form. Something actually worth worrying about to distract us from all this irrelevant nonsense.

Whilst that is true, it doesn't address the objective...

And that is to come up with a proper and acceptable modification that owners would be happy with, rather than the impractical 'permanently attached cable' one that Roland are insisting on fitting to existing and new RD-800's, in order for them to be considered safe, even in the most careless of hands.