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#2287148 - 06/07/14 10:33 PM Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions
IreneAdler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 120
Loc: Washington
My teacher last week had me start work on the 2nd movement of Beethoven's C# minor Sonata, and needless to say I was quite excited once I learn this movement I will have 2/3 of a Sonata in my repertoire. yippie I was working on the piece and I have run into two questions that I would love to work out before my next lesson as I am sure there will be other questions to spend my lesson time on this coming week.

1st Question: As I am still new to the piano, I find myself in a Shakespearean situation Measure for Measure if you will.
I am not entirely sure if you call the opening F octave quarter note on the 5th line it is own measure? Perhaps you treat it as a pick up note akin to the beginning of Chopin's posthumous A minor waltz? This F octave seems to me to be its own measure because its tied to a half note of the same octave therefore the original F octave is its own measure. I know how to "play" the notes counting wise, but I am not sure if it is proper to call the quarter note octave its own measure.

2nd Question: Depending on how you correctly count that opening F octave my second question is in either the 44th or 45th measure, right before the double bar on the 5th line, there are two quarter notes in the right hand a E flat octave and a D flat octave this seems to be two beats. I am lost where is the third beat, Beethoven would not make a mistake like this and neither I am fairly sure would Urtext misprint something like this, so I must be missing something. I am pretty sure my teacher explained it, but in trying to read the new music I must have missed his explanation or it didn't stick in my mind. Now a few days after the lesson youtube videos haven't answered the question, so I offer up the question to PianoWorld. Any assistance would be vastly appreciated!

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#2287173 - 06/08/14 12:31 AM Re: Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions [Re: IreneAdler]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5344
Loc: Philadelphia
1st question: If it does not have the required beats to be a measure, then it is not a measure. If, however, you are talking about a split measure because of a repeat, it is usually because of a pickup at the beginning of that section, in which case I believe you can call it a measure. (But don't count the pickup and the split as separate measures. Just one.)

2nd question: See my answer to question one. Because each repeat is split, two beats fall in the previous section, and the third beat is taken as a pickup to the next section. (Note the pickup beat at the very beginning of the piece.) The third beat of this measure is either the pickup to the section (on the repeat), or the beat immediately after the repeat, which is the pickup to the next section.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#2287174 - 06/08/14 12:32 AM Re: Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions [Re: IreneAdler]
carlos88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 95
Loc: Colorado
1. I don't have an official answer, but if I understand the locations correctly, I'd call it the first measure of the "Trio" section of the second movement.

2. Depending on if this is the first or second repeat, the third beat is either that leading F-octave of the start of the Trio, or the F-octave after the repeat. In both cases, those partial measures only have 1 beat, so correctly fit both the partial measure before entering the trio, and the the last section of the trio.
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

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#2287175 - 06/08/14 12:32 AM Re: Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions [Re: IreneAdler]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1204
Loc: western MA, USA
Derulux is absolutely right. I am only posting to add that you have now made me wonder how Irene Adler would play this movement. I think it would be excellent!
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Working on: Schumann/Kinderszenen
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
I love Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

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#2287367 - 06/08/14 02:39 PM Re: Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions [Re: carlos88]
IreneAdler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 120
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By: carlos88

2. Depending on if this is the first or second repeat, the third beat is either that leading F-octave of the start of the Trio, or the F-octave after the repeat. In both cases, those partial measures only have 1 beat, so correctly fit both the partial measure before entering the trio, and the the last section of the trio.


I thanks very much all has become clear with yours, Carlos88, and Derulux answers. Now I see how cleverly Beethoven wrote the beginning of the fifth line for the first repeat and further on for the second repeat. wow I always had a high opinion of Beethoven from listening to his music and now trying to play his piano compositions my opinion of him is exponentially increasing. Giulietta Guiccardi, how could you not run off to Gretna Green with this man? I know he is not perfect, but who is, one would be willing to put up with a lot to be mistresss of that household.

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#2287372 - 06/08/14 02:50 PM Re: Moonlight Sonata 2nd Movement Questions [Re: hreichgott]
IreneAdler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 120
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Derulux is absolutely right. I am only posting to add that you have now made me wonder how Irene Adler would play this movement. I think it would be excellent!


~Hreichgott thanks for the vote of confidence whome , I still have quite a bit of the movement left to learn. In few weeks I might be tempted to post a recording of the 2nd movement; after my final exams are over as I will have more time to practice the piece. Playing for anyone apart from my teacher and my family still makes my hands shake; but after a dozen failed attempts I did make a recording for the Tchaikovsky Recital even if I forgot to submit it on time. Recording Beethoven would be another good challenge. I suppose it would another opportunity to try and conquer my fear of the Red Dot of Recording.

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