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Hey PianoWorld,

What are your positive or negative experiences with pianos listed for sale on Craigslist? Should one avoid shopping on CL?

Unless you have a lot of experience, it's buyer beware.

I have been watching Craigslist in my area for about two years, almost daily. I have gone to see pianos and I have posted pianos for sale.

Basically, most of the ads are legitimate. But I would not purchase anything that I hadn't seen or played.

If you decide to post something for sale, be prepared for scammers who will try to weasel money out of you, sight unseen. These instances, ugly and unfortunate as they are, are common. They are pretty easy to spot however. They always have an excuse why they can't come to see the piano that you have for sale and all you need to do is ...

The rule for purchasing remains: have a registered piano technician look over the piano if it's something you like.

And as Minnesota Marty states, it's caveat emptor.

Hey 199,

Same experience as AZ. I've sold but never bought on CL but I watch it daily, out of habit now. I had a beautiful C Bechstein for sale (for a friend). The ad ran for a long time and 99.9% of inquires were scammers. I also opened up a Gmail account. That way, I could dump the account after the piano sold. You might want to correspond with a different email account too.

As for actual pianos for sale, I would say most are legit. I was looking for a Yamaha at first. What I found was TONS of grey market Yamahas and LOTS of misrepresentation concerning condition (that goes for all pianos listed). I got hooked into looking at a "mint" C7 (even though it was a bit of a drive for me). I kept after the guy for pictures and info before committing to the drive out. After lots of back and forth and some clever but concealing pictures, I went to go see it.

As it turned out, the real story was; the seller was a friend storing the C7 at his mom's house, the real owner was a recording artist who moved out of country and the piano had been sitting for months in front of a picture window, blasted by sunlight. Here's the best part. The owner duct taped microphones all over the piano and it lifted the poly finish everywhere! The piano actually wasn't all that bad but it looked liked beat up studio piano. So much for the pristine part.

CL sure seems to be the place where private sellers list, at least here. Again, my advice would be to ask for lots of pix prior to seeing the piano. Ask for pull back shots. Any pianos I saw next to fireplaces and picture windows were out for me. I also did all the leg work and reported my findings to my tech at the time. I paid him for his advice (I never found one good enough for him to inspect though). That's just my experience. Like MM said, buyer beware........big time. Good luck with your search and let us know how it's going........blob

I saw several pianos on Craiglsist and didn't have any problems with scammers. Actually, the most deceptive ads I saw was from a dealer. He advertises something, you come down there to look at it and he tries to sell you something else.

I've sold several musical instruments on Craigslist (a saxophone, a nice drum set, some more percussion equipment) and I only remember one scam reply. All the other responses were people interested in buying the instrument. There were low ball offers, but then that's just part of the game.

A group I'm a member of purchased a piano that we found on craigslist. We had it fully examined by a very capable technician/rebuilder. It was an excellent purchase.

Like the other posters, I too have bought a couple of pianos advertised on CL and sold a couple (all in the process of upgrading or just tinkering). What I've found is that you can tell a lot about a seller or buyer after a short phone conversation.

If someone wants to keep sending emails or text messages, that is a red flag as far as I'm concerned. Of course, you come across a few loony-toons as well. But, you can usually tell after an intelligent conversation and asking some basic questions.

A big-red flag... if they send you an email asking if you still have the item for sale, it's a scam. I think to myself... oh yea, what item would that be?

Rick

+1.
Some ads that seem fake/not legit/questionable on CL are actually legit. I saw someone who sold a concert grand, advertising it in all caps, emailed him and asked for his phone number, and turned out that he was just really and truly trying to sell the piano, that's all. So I suggest that you ALWAYS call after ONE (maybe two) email. Keep on asking for their phone to weed out scammers.

I looked at quite a few Craigslist pianos in the last year, and ultimately bought one of them. The most common issue I've seen is people misrepresenting what they have, not necessarily on purpose, mind you, but every piano listed is "beautiful." Some people just don't know. Also, people look at a few grands to determine "value" and want to price their Aeolean no-name grand the same as a Steinway because "it's a baby grand." At the same time, I think there are a lot of old gems out there that people tend to dismiss too quickly.

I know this is a bit off topic, but is the saying "you can't tune an out of tune piano" true? (Meaning, if a piano hasn't been tuned in a long enough time, it's impossible to get it back in tune)

There is a separate thread on the technicians and tuners forum for funny CL ads for pianos. It is hilarious.

"...I will be traveling out of the country for the next two weeks, but if you send a cashier's check I will have one of my employees arrange shipment for you..."

I don't believe this to be true...

A piano that hasn't been tuned in a long time may well be very far out-of-tune, but not without hope. It may take two or three (or more) tunings to get it back in tune and stable.

Just my .02...

Rick

Agree. Or it may be hopeless and unplayable for a number of other reasons. This is why it is always recommended to have a qualified tech evaluate any piano prior to purchase!

^ Thanks guys.

Malkin, after how many years (without a tuning) would a piano be considered "hopeless?"

Pianos don't have an expiration date, and there's no one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

The reason you want it to be in tune when you evaluate it, is so that you know it can be tuned, and that ideally it can hold a tune. If it's not in tune when you see it, it's difficult to tell (yet another reason you'd want a competent technician to assess it).

Often sellers will say "it just needs to be tuned," and they are probably telling you the truth as they understand it, but years of neglect can detrimentally impact a piano too. Remember, that most of the pieces and parts of a piano are made of organic materials. These wear when a piano is used, and need maintenance and/or replacement over time, like the tires on a car. But, just like tires can dry rot even if a car is not driven, the parts of a piano can also degrade and deteriorate over time even if the piano is not played.

When you're looking at "grandma's old piano," that hasn't been played or tuned in five, ten or twenty years, just be aware that it may require voicing and regulation in addition to a tuning, and--given a lifetime of wear and tear, followed by years of neglect, some parts may even need to be replaced.

I would say a simple definition of "hopeless" would be if the cost to acquire a piano, plus the cost of any needed repairs, exceeds its market value. That said, if it's your own grandma's piano, it's sentimental value may be significant enough for you to want to bring it back to life!

One more question (I must be a bother)...

Let's say that I'm purchasing a piano from a dealer. That dealer offers a 3 year warranty on any defects/damages the piano may, as long as it wasn't caused by neglect. Is a tech still needed to check the piano out before purchasing? If so, is it still of utmost importance?

Yes. Warranties in the piano industry are only as good as the dealer still being in existence, and/or your willingness to take them to court to uphold the contract. Mostly, they try to find a way to get out of their responsibilities/promises...there are, sometimes, exceptions, but it is something to be aware of...

If you buy a new piano, and get a manufacturers warranty, you can probably assume it's ok. That said, as A443 said, every dealer is not the same. If you buy second-hand from a dealer, then the dealer's quality and reputation would certainly come into play. There are some great dealers out there--some active here as you probably know--and then sometimes we hear horror stories here too... caveat emptor, as the saying goes.

New piano: If it were me, and it was an expensive piano, then I'd have a 3rd party technician check it out, even if it's at a dealership, even if it's new. It's a small price to pay to ensure your piano is truly in good condition, and that there are no hidden defects or concerns. I mean, even if it's warrantied, do you want to incur all the hassles associated with repairs? That said, it might not be possible to have it inspected if you buy a low priced piano that's delivered directly to your home from a warehouse.

Used piano: you definitely have a 3rd party technician check it out for you, even if it's at a dealership, even if they offer a warranty. Again, it's a small price to pay to have someone objective look it over, make sure it's something you will truly enjoy, and help you avoid inheriting someone else's problems.

I just recently bought a nice Kawai upright through craigslist. It's just another way to find out what pianos are available. All the same caveats apply as for any other mode of finding pianos.

Our one and only piano retailer apparently has discovered CL and is advertising its used pianos there, finally.