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I don't believe that either Mr. Snyder or Mr. Galassini brought employees into consideration in terms of authenticity. Rich was asking Bob about a statement made by a Steinway employee in reference to a soundboard built in the Cunningham shops.

If you interpret my responses as "flippant" you have not taken the time to comprehend them.

I have already stated that it needs to be made by Steinway to be authentic and that is inclusive of their employees. All else is imitation or reproduction. The definitions of the word are not subject to flimsy interpretation. Please reread and comprehend what I have written.

Let me be sure I have this straight.

I am well aware that tapered soundboards have been used well before the 1930s, however that isn't the question.

Are you, or other rebuilders taking a 9mm soundboard blank and tapering it so that it is 9mm thick in the center and tapers to 5mm evenly at the rim, as shown in my diagram?

If so, I stand corrected.

No they didn't, but I did...in an earlier post. Rich Galassini stated: Based on that information, I assume the soundboard installer is qualified and knows the details of the Steinway recipe--which is no longer covered by its original patent. In this case, we are essentially dealing with who pays the soundboard installer to do the work. Does the simple fact that Steinway is not paying this installer anymore, make the soundboard and the piano 'unauthentic' or no longer a Steinway (i.e., a used piano, not being sold by Steinway, nor Rich Galassini as new, but as rebuilt piano with the worn out parts replaced...as is usual/expected)?

This question is not directed towards Minnesota Marty, it is open to all...

If the answer to this question is 'yes,' then I think people are talking about commercial issues, which have nothing to do with pianos, music, quality, or sound.

I think the problem here is attributing a "value judgment" to the words "authentic" and "reproduction." As has been said throughout this post, many boards installed by re-builders may be higher in quality (a value judgment) or better sounding (another value judgment) but unless Steinway produced and installed it, they are correct that it is, by definition, not a Steinway component and therefore is modified.... maybe good, maybe not.

If a Pizza was presented as being Domino's, but yet was made by Joe's Trattoria, it isn't a Domino's pizza (thankfully! )and Joe's would be silly for advertising Domino's.

Semantics aside:
In my company, we send out our Steinways in need of a new soundboard to David Rubenstein in LA. Many of you know him as the creator of the Rubenstein piano (10' at last sighting ). In my opinion, David makes boards that are second to none. While every other component of the instrument was rebuilt with parts directly from Steinway USA, I can not represent the piano as anything other than a Steinway rebuilt by our company to our standards. It is up to the consumer to determine if that's an appropriate sound and performance level for them, or not.

I have witnessed many newer Steinways with significant down- bearing and crown issues, and while I hold the brand in great esteem, I wouldn't personally be inclined to purchase a board from them to put into our rebuilt units.

It's not about 'happy camper' but seemingly more about 'authenticity'.

Make sure next soundboard also will blow up or it couldn't possibly have been 'authentic'.

Just kidding....

Norbert

Steinway, The Domino's Pizza of Pianos.

The OP, and other readers, may want to carefully consider the implications of that statement. The manner in which those soundboards are originally designed and constructed, often asks too much from the wooden fibres (i.e., the method of crowning cupeled with the intense down-bearing from the strings) even for brand new pianos. This is why, IMHO, rebuilders feel the need to replace soundboards on these particular instruments sooner and more often, as compared to other manufactures.

Was that really called for?

Don't worry, I think Steinway's reputation will survive. But if you keep quoting it, this post might get bumped up on Google.

The point above cannot be emphasized enough. And so, I have.

Being of Japanese origin, I can understand you hate Chinese pianos.
Something that apparently became abundantly clear during your own shopping trip....

But didn't know it also includes American makes.

Norbert

I’ve watched this thread with interest, and made a comment or two myself…

I’d hate to see it degenerate into personal attacks and verbal jabs that are unnecessary… (more so than it already has).

If so, it will be concluded and locked…

Rick

I was referring to master's comparison of Domino's to Steinway.

I'm not Japanese.

Russell didn't make that comparison, you did.

In this thread, I have suggested consulting a dictionary. You might look up analogy, simile, and metaphor. It would keep the discussion on track.

sophial,
If pointing out errors, defects, mistakes, poorly engineered specifications, etc is wrong-how do you suppose a professional in the field should inform the piano public? Like 443 I am prepared to defend the findings I have made. This is not opinion-this is fact.

As regards making improvements to the design and materials when rebuilding a Steinway-do you not think it possible? Is no mere mortal able to understand the engineering unless they happen to work for the Steinway company? Do you not think it possible for someone to study the Steinway and other pianos and come to some ability to take the engineering heritage further in the same way the founders were doing? Maybe that makes a rebuilt modified Steinway more Steinway than the new ones.

As Jim pointed out,
Tapering the replacement soundboard with common shop tools is not that difficult-it sure is dusty work though.

I said "origin"

You should be proud of this.

But not at the expense of others..

Norbert

Nope, not that either.

Okay, let's simmer down here. This is only a $50,000+ decision I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

This has given me a lot of perspective, and I thank all of you. The only person I really owe anything to in terms of what piano I buy is me. Because of Steinway's aggressive PRINT marketing (and make no mistake, we have seen it is VERY hostile toward rebuilders) it can be easy as a buyer to worry about feeling like a phony if you get a rebuild with a lot of aftermarket parts in it. Ed gave me a look when I brought this up, because I could not sit there and tell him his belly didn't sound like a Steinway should. It was my first encounter with an aftermarket board. I guess I didn't want to be the guy who bought the kit car Lamborghini. I wanted to know what was purring under the hood was hand-crafted with love in Italy. But it's evident to me that there are craftsmen of the same if not better quality all around the country.

Steinway is more than a maker of fine instruments and an American tradition. It's a status symbol, a Veblen good with a mystique and allure all its own. But as a working musician, I have to look beyond that and, as Bob so eloquently suggested, focus on the instrument that's right for me. I want to hold my head up proudly and be part of the Steinway family. I want to tour the factory someday knowing I'm a part of this amazing story. Sitka Spruce still sings, whether in the hands of Astoria, Cunningham, or Ed's shop up North.

At this point I am keeping an open mind. After my recent experience, my primary concern is durability and longevity. As A443 clarified, my issue is NOT cosmetic. Glue joint failure is a big fat nope in my book. I played a brand new B today and saw what normal compression ridges look like. By comparison, the 2002 board is a horror show and feels uneven and ripply. It may sing true today, but the point is that for the price I paid that uncertainty is absolutely unacceptable. When you pay this kind of money, I firmly feel you don't "just live with it." Either it's satisfactory or it is not. I've had several techs unanimously weigh in that the separation is not normal for an instrument of this age, nor is it a good sign. Beyond that, my search for my forever instrument continues in earnest. Let's keep the future posts civil. This situation is already causing me a lot of stress and anxiety as it is and I would like to minimize my emotional overhead during this decision. Thanks to you all for your support and your wisdom.