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#2290825 - 06/17/14 02:40 AM Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi everyone,
I just ordered one of these after trying in store smile . I tried many instruments leading up to today but only recently had I seen any of the new clps. I tried the 545 but noticed that the action on the 585 was significantly better. The sound was also very impressive from the 585 with a beautify, rich, natural sounding tone coming from the cabinet.

The counterweight seemed to improve the feeling of the initial part of the down stroke of each key and the overall feel was very natural, fast and responsive to play. The bottom of the stroke had a good feel - it was not 'boggy' or too soft and was also not noisy. Overall the action felt on the light side rather than heavy. (I am a beginner to intermediate player so don't read anything definitive about my opinion of the action - it just felt really good to me).

I also liked the appearance - although a secondary concern - of the polished ebony finish and the soft close fall board and music rest are very sturdy and feel very good quality. It also came with a height adjustable stool which impressed me as I didn't expect it.
In short, I was blown away by the instrument in a very short time of testing. Outstanding action, extremely impressive and natural sound, and a beautiful overall presentation. I've been waiting for others to review this instrument before purchasing but in the end the instrument spoke for itself.

I'll expect delivery in the next week and will be happy to update with further feedback for anyone considering one for themselves. I didn't get to try a 575 so can't comment on that model. I recently purchased a Kawai but after having some technical problems with it was returned for a refund.
Regards, Peter.


Edited by cub (06/17/14 02:40 AM)

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#2290831 - 06/17/14 03:07 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9688
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Congrats Peter!

May I suggest that you add the details of your purchase to the "Digital Piano Prices Paid" thread.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2290837 - 06/17/14 03:29 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yes, congrats!

Peter, have you compared the new Yamaha action with the older generation? What they called GH3 and GH had in my opinion a rather odd initial resistance to movement of the key - the effort to overcome it meant maintaining control towards the end of the downstroke was more difficult. To be fair it was only really apparent when comparing directly to other actions but once it was in my mind I found it difficult to deal with. I just noted your comment about the initial part of the downstroke on the 585 - is this the improvement you are referring to? In which case Yamaha will have made a significant step here.

Thanks for your review. Keep us updated.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2290843 - 06/17/14 03:50 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: EssBrace]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi EssBrace,

Yes, that is what I was referring to. I did try the 440 (and a CVP 609) as well and found that the 585 was far superior to these and the 545. When comparing the 545 to the 440, I actually preferred the 440. I just didn't like the 545 action. I was considering getting a 470 today to be honest but wanted to at least try the 585 before making a commitment. I feel the 585 is a huge improvement and better than the 440 and 545 significantly. It is not a subtle difference either - its very noticeably different and within a few minutes of playing, I knew it would be a joy to play for a long term. In fact, I was quite sceptical about the 'counterweight' and thought it may be just a bit of marketing.

Its a shame they can't put that action in the more affordable instruments - perhaps it will 'trickle' down over time into other DPs. In fact I can't wait to get it home and start practicing on it.

I was also intending on trying the new action from Roland which I still have not tried but in the end I was very satisfied with the 585 and my search stopped there.

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#2290845 - 06/17/14 04:12 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: Kawai James]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Thanks James,
I'm not keen on publishing 'price paid' for various reasons. I paid a price I was happy with and I'm sure the dealer was happy too. It was quite a bit more that the price I paid for the CA95.
I'm still a big fan of Kawai and feel bad about how the digital worked out. The Shigeru Kawai remains on my short list for a grand piano when I can afford a house big enough to have the space for a grand!
Best regards, Peter.

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#2290848 - 06/17/14 04:46 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9688
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Peter, I can appreciate your reluctance to publish the pricing information.

Thank you for your positive words about the Shigeru Kawai too!

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2290878 - 06/17/14 07:41 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 565
Loc: UK
Hi cub, I'd be interested to hear the story of what happened with your CA95. You said you had some clicky keys and a technician was coming to look at it... what happened next? Why do you feel bad?
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2290953 - 06/17/14 10:07 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: lolatu]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi Lolatu,
I've sent you a PM with the details here. Essentially there were some technical issues with the action which a technician couldn't fix. A second replacement instrument had similar issues and I opted for a refund at that stage and started looking for a product from an alternative maker.
Why do I feel bad? - well its awkward for the buyer and seller when there are problems with a product. I was very excited by the CA95 in terms of its potential and the excellent feel on the keys that worked well. I also received very good service from the dealer and Kawai Australia in handling the problem. I feel bad that it didn't work out the way I had hoped.

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#2290959 - 06/17/14 10:17 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
cub, How would you compare the action between the CA95 and the CLP585?

Edit:

I will also add that I found it interesting that you preferred the action on the 440 (GH3 - not wood) over the 545 (Wooden "X" - but no counter weight). The counter weight seemed to do it for you. Too bad there is a $2600 (retail) price difference between the 545 and the 585. $2600 (plus taxes) is what I think I paid for my 340 in 2010. My kids however have been taking piano now for 7 years and one of them will probably start needing more "grand" playing time here real soon. I definitely do not have pockets that deep ... hence my interest in the CA95 and CLP585.


Edited by theoak (06/17/14 10:27 AM)

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#2290961 - 06/17/14 10:18 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Peter, could you let us know (at some point) how the Imperial preset compares to the CFX?
Thanks.

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#2290966 - 06/17/14 10:27 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
P120 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Italy
It was enough strange to not find messages about new CLP-500 series in this forum.
Congrats for your CLP-585. I would like to know the difference with CA-95 if possible. I would like to buy a decent digital piano with a realistic action since I'm a classical pianist with a real acustic piano of 2 meter, but I have troubles with neighbors. Some times ago I tried Yamaha AvantGrand N1 and I liked its action but not its price. I am interested in CA-95 but here there is only a shop that sell Kawai digital and it has only a CN34: I not like both sound and action. So this new CLP-585 could be a valid solution for me. Thanks.

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#2291472 - 06/18/14 04:40 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: theoak]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi theoak,
I think the the action on the CA95 and CLP585 are both very good and at the top of their respective ranges from each maker. Overall I prefer the yamaha but many on this forum rate the GF action on Kawai very highly. I'll wait till I have my 585 at home to give further feedback about the action. One difference I could say now is the bottom of the key stroke is softer on the kawai. The overall weight of the keys is probably similar between the two. I also noticed with the 585 that the keys were easy to play up high up (or at the back in between the black keys). The escapement was just noticeable if you went looking for it but not irritating or intrusive.

On the issue of the 440 vs 545 - I just felt that the 440 action was more refined and better quality. I was going to look at the 470 as overall I would prefer the wooden keys. I had a Clavinova 240 from 2006 until recently and was keen to upgrade from the plastic keys. In the end I didn't end up getting a chance to try to 470 because the 585 was so good when I tried it that i stopped comparing with others and bought it.

In terms of wanting a 'grand' like experience for your kids, I would definitely recommend trialling the CLP 585 before making a decision. Its only my opinion but I feel its the best action on a digital I have ever come across. It is more expensive than the CA95 where I live and many rate the CA95 very highly. I would try both and decide for yourself. In terms of sound the Kawai is very nice but as others on the forum have said the sound sometimes needs a little tweaking in the settings. The 585 had very pleasing sounds to my ear but I wont be able to fully review this aspect until it is here and I can have a proper test of it.

P120,
I've explained some of the differences above for you. You should try a 585 for yourself. I think both instruments would be suitable. I'm looking forward to hearing what more advanced pianists think of the new yamaha action with counterweights - remember I'm not very advanced (currently working on pieces from grade 4-6 in terms of difficulty).

Theoak - have you thought about getting an acoustic for your kids?

Pete14 - I didn't really get a chance to try the bosendorfer sound thoroughly. In the store I preferred the yamaha CFX sound which I really loved. The bosendorfer was perhaps a more delicate (?thin) sound but I noticed a lot of colour and tone change with different dynamics. I'll try it at length once I take delivery and update after that.

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#2291649 - 06/18/14 12:36 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
Hello Cub,

Spurred on by your experience in this thread I have been trying out the Kawai CA95, Kawai CS10 and the Yamaha CPL 585 along with the Yamaha N2 and some silent acoustic piano's such as the Yamaha YUS5 and a really nice Kemble. I'm kind of building up my impressions over time and this represents an initial starting point. Bearing in mind I only spent about 20 minutes playing around with it, I did find the touch on the 585 interesting and engaging. The model has only been on the showroom floor for two weeks. At first I really liked it and I also enjoyed both the CFX and the new Bosendorfer samples. The sound from the cabinet is also very good indeed. However after a while, the touch began to feel a little odd and.... how can I put this... 'kind of wobbly'. I think it has something to do with the counter weight mechanism. I can see what they are trying to achieve here with regard to the tensioning of the keys but it ended up feeling a little unnatural to me. As soon as I got back on the N2 and the upright acoustic's the touch became more familiar. The N2 seems as good as some of the grand piano's I briefly tinkered with on the showroom floor and is currently my favourite hybrid digital piano. Its just so darned expensive. Anyway, given that all pure digital piano's struggle to emulate both grand and upright acoustic action, IMHO the touch on the 585 is very sensitive, easy to acclimatise to and is a worthy competitor to the Kawai grand feel.

Regards,

Paul H

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#2291661 - 06/18/14 01:19 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3882
Loc: Northern England.
I had a quick pop at the 585 which has arrived at our dealers whilst I picked up some music retaining screws. . . Managed to switch it on, nothing happened. Asks the fella if this was a "Silent Piano" . . . he couldn`t get any volume either, nor did he even smile! (which made me laugh out loud). Eventually succeeded. Didn`t like those fiddly controls; "generic" I think they call `em. Sounded pretty good though. . .but I couldn`t find the Bosendorfer or anything else for that matter.

What I did find was this Bluthner portable priced at £1300 with the name plastered over the front in appallingly bad taste. And it didn`t sound brilliant either, imo.



Edited by peterws (06/18/14 01:23 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2291760 - 06/18/14 06:45 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
cub, do not mean to derail the topic ... but you asked about getting an acoustic.

My dilemma is I have been told by multiple sources that my Clavinova is built "like" a grand and hence has a grand piano action (or at least close to it). To get an upright acoustic would be a step back (or maybe sideways). So, that leaves me with a grand piano and the many many thousands of dollars later which I simply cannot afford. Also, I am not sure if an acoustic (upright or grand) will "fit" into my home. I have 5 kids (5 to 13 in age) and to have an acoustic ringing all day would drive us crazy with everything that goes on here. My son truly loves the piano and if he had his way he would be on it all day - literally. This is where the digital piano has saved us ... he plugs in his head phones ... and then comes up for air a few hours later ... or at least when he wants a snack wink

The AvantGrand models intrigue me, but they are 2009 technology, and are also SUPER pricey. Hence my interest in the CLP-585. I look forward to more reports on the CLP-585.

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#2291769 - 06/18/14 07:05 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: P120]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12227
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: P120
It was enough strange to not find messages about new CLP-500 series in this forum.
Congrats for your CLP-585. I would like to know the difference with CA-95 if possible. I would like to buy a decent digital piano with a realistic action since I'm a classical pianist with a real acustic piano of 2 meter, but I have troubles with neighbors. Some times ago I tried Yamaha AvantGrand N1 and I liked its action but not its price. I am interested in CA-95 but here there is only a shop that sell Kawai digital and it has only a CN34: I not like both sound and action. So this new CLP-585 could be a valid solution for me. Thanks.


The CN34 action is very different from the CA95 action. The sound is also very different. In both instances the CA is much better. I have found the GF action to be superior. The HI-XL sounds are top-notch. Still not as great a sound as you can get with some better software pianos, but very, very nice. If you cannot try out the CA95 in person, you can try CA65 or MP11, as they all have the GF action. Try with headphones for the CA65 or the MP11, though, to get a good idea of the sound.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291784 - 06/18/14 07:28 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9688
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: peterws
Eventually succeeded.


What was the problem?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2291792 - 06/18/14 07:45 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: theoak]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi Theoak,
Now I can see your situation - it really sounds like the benefits of a good digital piano would be best here. I can still only dream of having the money and space for a grand piano! I know one day its coming but I need a new house first. Life must be hectic with 5 kids - we have a hard enough time with 1.

I think the 585 remains an option - when will you have a chance to check it out? Also - do you play yourself or is it mainly for the kids? and how old is your son who is playing so much?
And, have you considered Kawai? - there seem to be many happy kawai customers on the forum. You know my feeling on this but if you have considered a CS10/7 or CA95/65?


Edited by cub (06/18/14 07:45 PM)

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#2291808 - 06/18/14 08:38 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi Paul,
Thanks for contributing to the thread. Its interesting to read your comments here. I was also very impressed with the sound from the cabinet and enjoyed the sound samples. I didn't get a wobbly feel from the action but this kind of thing is very subjective. I felt the action was very solid and sturdy while being light and fast as well. I think a familiar feel is always comforting - what instrument have you been playing at home?
Thanks again and best wishes for your search for the DP thats right for you.
Peter.

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#2291860 - 06/18/14 11:26 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: Kawai James]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3882
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: peterws
Eventually succeeded.


What was the problem?


I don't really know . . . but one or two other Yamahas were the same.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2291903 - 06/19/14 02:10 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
Hi Cub,

I am about to move into a new house with neighbours either side and my ageing Kemble compact acoustic piano will only do for daytime practice. Hence the interest in digital. I'm haunting Rose Morris and the Yamaha Music Centre in London at the moment. I fully intend to go back and have another trial of the 585. I think the key point here is familiarity. I'm so used to the feel of an acoustic upright with a delicate touch that all the pure digitals I've tried feel odd in one way or another. Hopefully as I become more used to the action, I will be able to see past this. I also found the Kawai grand feel a bit soft if thats the right word. And oddly, the dynamics on the CA95 that I tried felt compromised. I thought the 585 better in this respect but none as responsive as the Yamaha YUS5 acoustic. To be fair the CA95 had a lower octave that was much louder than the above 2/3 of the keyboard. This created an impression of uneven sound. I suspect someone had been messing about with the settings. For instance this was not the case with the CS10. I guess I've set my heart on the Yamaha acoustic silent piano at the moment whereas my head tells me its far too expensive. We will see. For those here that are intrigued by the Yamaha hybrid Avante-Grande N2, this video review should pique your interest.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/30598575

Kind regards

Paul H


Edited by pmh (06/19/14 02:11 AM)
Edit Reason: Punctuation

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#2291918 - 06/19/14 03:15 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
P120 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Italy
Thanks for your messages Cub wink
I must find a shop that have it available yet. I will try it as soon as possible, overall I'm interested in the transition between digital to real acustic since in the past I did study some important passages (Chopin Sonata Op 58) on my Yamaha P-120 with satisfaction but then on my real grand the same passages was imperfect... I know that P-120 is old technology and I bought it many years ago to use it when I am in travel and it is ok, but the differences in the action are really evident with a real piano.

X Morodiene: I know that CN34 is another world, unluckily I did find few shops that sell Kawai digital pianos. However I will try to find MP10 or MP11.

Very interesting video, thank you pmh: I tried N2, I played only some fast passages from Chopin Scherzo n 2 and the keyboard was really responsive, like a good real grand. The price is a real handicap, so I hope that Yamaha soon replace N1 and N2 with newer models so maybe actual prices could fall a bit... Altough I am not sure of this since the high prices of previous GrandTouch series in the second hand instruments market.

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#2292026 - 06/19/14 10:24 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
pmh: Awesome video on the digitals. The only gotcha I have with an Avant Grand is knowing my luck I would spend the money on the beast and then in a few months they will refresh the line. I was hoping that Yamaha would have refreshed the line this year too. I guess they did a little with the NU1.

cub: Yes, the CA95 tempts me too. There are too many choices and not enough money to buy them all wink

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#2292087 - 06/19/14 01:02 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
I'm glad you guys find the video helpful. I think it is one of the more telling and instructive reviews. With regard to the Kawai CA95, Ms Dinnerstein also hinted in a related article that she was not convinced by the grand feel action. The trouble is, all the digitals in the video are being compared to acoustic grands and the N2 so they are bound to suffer. Personally, I don't find the CA95 brittle or nasal and I'm guessing its position in the room makes a big difference. With regard to 95's dynamics, there is enough responsive light and shade to encompass most pieces of music and it does sound very 'piano like' to me. In a way, the CA95 is well suited to small and medium sized domestic environments in my opinion. It does hold up well against the Yamaha 585 which has its own beguiling sounds. I'm now on a mission and I'm going to spend some quality time with it this coming Wednesday, IF I can avoid the pesky salesmen. In the meantime I'm looking forward to Cubs impressions when he finally get hold of his piano.

Paul H

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#2292458 - 06/20/14 06:47 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi Paul, Thanks for the great video review link. I found her to be very validating as I feel very similarly about many of the actions and sounds (although I've never tried an AGN2). I'd be interested in the same reviewer's opinion of the new 585 action.

Have you tried or considered one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdshxsRsclI

I'm not sure how new this is and whether this is what you are already looking at with the YUS5 with silent piano.

I found out my 585 will be here next week. Due to work commitments first chance to play will be next friday. This week I've been playing my acoustic upright a lot but I can't wait for the digital and the ability to play and practice late at night with out disturbing family or neighbours.

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#2292577 - 06/20/14 01:49 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Peter, thanks for your reply. Please do follow up on your impressions regarding the Imperial-CFX comparisons.

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#2292598 - 06/20/14 02:33 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 247
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: pmh
I'm glad you guys find the video helpful. I think it is one of the more telling and instructive reviews. With regard to the Kawai CA95, Ms Dinnerstein also hinted in a related article that she was not convinced by the grand feel action. The trouble is, all the digitals in the video are being compared to acoustic grands and the N2 so they are bound to suffer. Personally, I don't find the CA95 brittle or nasal and I'm guessing its position in the room makes a big difference. With regard to 95's dynamics, there is enough responsive light and shade to encompass most pieces of music and it does sound very 'piano like' to me. In a way, the CA95 is well suited to small and medium sized domestic environments in my opinion. It does hold up well against the Yamaha 585 which has its own beguiling sounds. I'm now on a mission and I'm going to spend some quality time with it this coming Wednesday, IF I can avoid the pesky salesmen. In the meantime I'm looking forward to Cubs impressions when he finally get hold of his piano.

Paul H


I've seen that video posted here before but I hadn't seen the other written article where she goes into a bit more detail. I think this is the one your referring to.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323605404578384472502632956

It mentions she was unimpressed by the feel of the action on the CA95 but doesn't go into specifics. Both myself and my piano teacher like you found the Grand Feel action on that to be soft. I'm not sure if that's because Kawai are trying to make it as quiet as possible but if it detracts from the realism of the action I'm not in favour. I also go to the same shops you mentioned in London and was also very impressed by the YUS5. If I had the money it'd be hard to go for the N2 over that just for the grand action when the YUS5 sounds so much better.

Simone in the article is also quite positive about Casio's action for the price if not the sound.


Edited by Enthusiast (06/20/14 02:35 PM)

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#2292896 - 06/21/14 09:10 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: Enthusiast]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
Hi Enthusiast,

I've been away for a few days so I've just caught up on the posts. I think the softness of the grand feel does seem to detract from the realism but I will try different settings especially heavy to see if this improves the experience. I did like the way Yamaha had tried to create a tensioning in the key press with their counter weight system. On initial testing the touch did feel promising although the type of tension does not seem to match the acoustic grand or the N2. I will be going back this Wednesday for a further play and will report back. I think Cubs impressions when he receives his piano will be invaluable. But yes the Yamaha YUS5 silent system is the model of choice for me at the moment over the N2 if I can cobble together the money. Maybe I should try the Casio to compare actions but I have a feeling this probably is a good compromise touch for the lower end digital piano.

Hi Cub, thanks for the heads up on the Trans Acoustic technology. It seems to be the most exciting development truly achieving the best of both digital and acoustic worlds in one piano. But I should imagine it will take time before its implemented on the YUS5 and the price will most likely be prohibitive unfortunately. Still, I will have a word with the guys at Yamaha Music London to see what may be round the corner and report back. Its all good stuff in any event.

Regards,

Paul H

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#2292902 - 06/21/14 09:16 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12227
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: pmh
Maybe I should try the Casio to compare actions but I have a feeling this probably is a good compromise touch for the lower end digital piano.



I think you are right. Casio is great for someone with a sub-$1k budget, but I'm not sure they can compare with higher-end digitals of other companies.
_________________________
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2293883 - 06/23/14 01:38 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
If you brush up on your Italian ... which I know none of ... there is a really cool (at least to me anyway) demo of VRM in action at the 2:15 mark.

He does a couple of demos with the CLP-585 followed by the same on a grand CFX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV4B3AbgaC0

Recording acoustic is always challenging ... recording levels, mic placement, etc ... but the comparison I found to be quite interesting.

I don't want to spoil it wink


Edited by theoak (06/23/14 05:15 PM)

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#2293944 - 06/23/14 04:07 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
That is a very interesting demo. Nice find Oak. Like you, clueless about the Italian but I kind of got some of it. The more I hear demo's of the Yamaha's CLP 585 sound the more I like it. Im definitely going to give it a good play this Wednesday. The video really did bring out the sustain differences however, and I wonder if there aren't a few red faces at Yamaha. Maybe they are immune. It also makes me wonder what the samples will sound like through their new transacoustic sound board. Yamaha centre London will have the new U1 TA sometime in September. Cant wait. Once again thanks for the video.

Paul H

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#2293965 - 06/23/14 04:54 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
That is what I thought too ... the CFX sustain ... lasted ... forever smile Now tuning can come into play, and again, mic placement, etc on the CFX. Also, as I am sure this CFX was NOT the one used to obtain the samples from for the 585.

The 585 appeared to have default settings. I wonder if some of the settings were tweaked (Damper resonance - appeared to be set to 5/10, Key resonance - appeared to be set to 5/10, Chorus - appeared to be Off, Reverb - appeared to be set to Recital, etc as shown briefly in the video) if the sustain could not be stretched out?

The single note I thought was pretty cool with the CFX lasting on the sustain.

The multi-key however with the CFX, had a lot more of those lower base notes that never gave up and eventually became louder than the higher notes. The 585 started out with the base real good I thought, but lost the low notes after only a few seconds. Maybe the human factor played (pun intended) here and he just did not hit the base keys quite as hard???

He also did the same thing with the CLP-575 (link below starting at the 3:15 mark), where I did seem hear the base much more this time with the multi-key, again, not lasting near as long as the CFX and not to the degree of the CFX. The 575 and 585 should in theory have the same samples for the pianos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af0LC2u9KkQ


Edit:

The 585 has the counter weights, extra instruments, and extra speakers over the 575. FYI


Edited by theoak (06/23/14 04:56 PM)

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#2294700 - 06/25/14 07:19 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: pmh]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Just a quick update here. I received delivery yesterday during the day. I'm working very long hours this week so I only managed to assemble the instrument last night and a quick play at midnight and then again a quick play tonight - not enough for a proper review. Assembly took about 75 minutes - essentially by myself with my wife helping for a couple of the lifts. Everything fits together perfectly. The height adjustable stool is very solid and looks nice too.

Suffice to say that I'm loving it so far. The quality of the cabinetry and finish is very high. The sounds are beautiful (both CFX and Bosendorfer). I'm also extremely happy with the action.

I'll have some more time on Friday to play and then next week as I'm working many hours over the weekend too (84 hours for the week!). I'll post some more details in a week or so.

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#2294745 - 06/25/14 09:57 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
A few pictures would be nice too ... front, back, and sides. Also, is the keyboard cover soft falling? Of course ... when you have time.

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#2294763 - 06/25/14 10:51 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
Ditto with the pictures. Congrats on your new piano Cub. I had another 10 minute go on the demonstrator at the Yamaha Centre London this morning. I must say that the action is very good and closer to the Avant Grand N2 than I first thought. Someone had been messing with the internal sound as it was horribly uneven which it definitely wasn't last time I tried. I must learn how to reset the instrument. I think the action is closer to the real thing compared to the Kawai grand feel but I'm going to assess this over a period of time.

By the way, Bert Smorenberg is demonstrating the Yamaha Grand TransAcoustic at Yamaha Music London this Saturday between 12:00pm and 4:00pm if anyone is interested. You need to phone up and book a ticket. I spoke at length with the main sales guy on the piano hall level about the TransAcoustic. He has played it at exhibition and was very impressed with the quality of the digital samples through the sound board which he described as rich, deep and resonant. Looks very promising. The 'only' dark cloud on the horizon is the price of admission which will probably be another 2 grand over the silent system. The U1 SH is already near the 9K mark with the TA coming in at a nose bleeding 11k or thereabouts. For that you may as well get YUS 5 SH which is a wonderful sounding piano with a touch close to the full grand piano. The U1 TA will be available from September onwards with the Grand version being released after Christmas as far as anyone can tell.

Regards,

Paul H


Edited by pmh (06/25/14 10:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarity

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#2294788 - 06/25/14 11:44 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
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Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
The U1TA was scheduled for release (U.S.A.) back in April, yet we're almost in July, and nothing yet.

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#2294838 - 06/25/14 01:35 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
pmh: "I think the action is closer to the real thing compared to the Kawai grand feel, but I'm going to assess this over a period of time."

This are big words. I think Yamaha has realized that Kawai has made huge efforts (with great results) and have finally worked hard here. Its about time smile

Too bad the sound was all messed up.


Instructions to Reset from the manual:

Method 1:

1. Press the [MENU] button several times to select “System Menu.”
2. Use the [^]/[Down] buttons to select “Backup,” use the [>] button to call up the next display, then use the [^]/[Down] buttons to select “Factory Set.”
3. Use the [>] button to call up the next display, then use the [^]/[Down] button select “Execute.”
4. Press the [>] button to execute the Restore operation.
A message indicating that the operation is completed appears, then the instrument will restart after a while.

Method 2:

Press and hold down the white key on the right end (C7) and press the [Power] (Standby/On) switch to turn on the power to this instrument. This operation will not delete the Songs in the User folder.

cub: Also, I am surprised the piano dealer did not assemble it for you. Did you get the polished ebony or the satin black?

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#2295615 - 06/27/14 02:30 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: theoak]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
I am loving this clavinova so far. Here is a link to some photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sadv7se6ydrpbnk/AAAS2QpJyGioldppL1eHRcGMa

I tried the pianoworld photo uploader but it would not accept the size of the files and I couldn't be bothered resizing them so its a dropbox link. Let me know if it doesn't work properly.

In relation to assembly - the dealer did offer to have the delivery boys assemble it but I preferred to do it myself.

The fit and finish of the cabinetry and the Polished Ebony is of a very high quality. The sound is just so smooth, delicate and powerful at the same time.

More comments coming...

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#2295736 - 06/27/14 11:14 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
theoak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Idaho, USA
Did it come with the adjustable bench too, or did you pay extra for that?

Beautiful piano!

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#2295755 - 06/27/14 11:45 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
As I said in another post, I was curious about the new 585 and went to the shop where I could (only) tried the 575
I found its action extremely good, and really close to my N2 (which is not a 'small' reference I think)
For sure Yamaha made a great job there, and probably the 585 is even better on this side
I am now eager for your opinion about this piano after having played it some hours.

Cheers and enjoy
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2295794 - 06/27/14 01:18 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2475
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
As I said in another post, I was curious about the new 585 and went to the shop where I could (only) tried the 575
I found its action extremely good, and really close to my N2 (which is not a 'small' reference I think)
For sure Yamaha made a great job there, and probably the 585 is even better on this side
I am now eager for your opinion about this piano after having played it some hours.

Cheers and enjoy

Hi enzo, does this mean you are even remotely thinking of changing from your N2 to a 575 or 585? Really curious as this would suggest some small dissatisfaction with the N2.

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#2295806 - 06/27/14 01:48 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: theoak]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
The adjustable stool came with the 585 at no extra cost - it was in the huge box with the piano. The salesman told me they came with the adjustable stool.
I was not aware of that from the marketing material until he told me.

Can I say the stool is very solid and sturdy with a smooth mechanism and looks quite good too. I see it as a bonus and am very pleased as I have not really been happy with the stools that came with my last clavinova (240) and the kawai ca95. It will save me buying a separate piano bench.

I played some more this afternoon and I can say I'm in love with the piano. Both the action and sound are very pleasing. I probably prefer to CFX sound to the bosendorfer but its too soon to tell for sure as I haven't yet had time to try different styles of music with each.

Even my wife immediately commented on the sound from this piano and how much better it was. She said that from the next room the sound was so realistic she thought I was playing my acoustic piano.

I'm working long hours this weekend but will update further as I get a chance to play more. whome

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#2295816 - 06/27/14 02:12 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: spanishbuddha]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
As I said in another post, I was curious about the new 585 and went to the shop where I could (only) tried the 575
I found its action extremely good, and really close to my N2 (which is not a 'small' reference I think)
For sure Yamaha made a great job there, and probably the 585 is even better on this side
I am now eager for your opinion about this piano after having played it some hours.

Cheers and enjoy

Hi enzo, does this mean you are even remotely thinking of changing from your N2 to a 575 or 585? Really curious as this would suggest some small dissatisfaction with the N2.


grin grin
Absolutely not....
I am really in love with my N2...
I can even, the more I play it, the more I love it..as I improve a lot my technics with that piano.
It is even far better than the AP upright I take lesson on
No..I must admit I have a GAS to change my VPC1 for a 575...
Why ??
Simple : The N2 action is quite noisy, and when I play really early in the morning, it makes too much noise...
Moreover, playing the N2 with Headphone is less pleasant.
But till I Have my N2, I find no pleasure playing the VPC1..the action seems 'unrealistic' for me now.
Whilst the 575 action is more closer to the N2...
but...It is just a GAS....for the moment wink


Edited by enzo.sandrolini (06/27/14 02:25 PM)
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2302101 - 07/14/14 06:02 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Adro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 27
Loc: Northants UK
Just took delivery of a Yamaha CLP585PE. I've been thinking of upgrading from my old technics for some years. I've been driving Ivory II GP's from the Technics. I'm no expert and haven't had the opportunity to try CLP next to a K CA95 or K CS10 which, as these had been my previous top picks I would have liked to do.

The action on the CLP is very precise. I think it recovers more quickly than the Kawai. As it's so different to my Technics I can't yet comment on subtly of touch. It will take a while to get the feel and exploit the full range. The weighting is well balanced and is slightly lighter than the only NU1 I've tried. I know it's not an 'authentic' grand action like the AvantGrand, but it still feels right.

The CFX sound is great. Plenty of grunt in the base, really rich and resonant. The treble is nice, perhaps a little bright, but I haven't played around with any parameters yet. I haven't hooked up Ivory II yet. It'll be interesting to compare the Steinway as I love that treble.

The Bosendorfer sounds very soft. A bit too soft for me, but again I haven't made any adjustments.

The pedals (or rather pedal - 'cause I only use the damper) seems very precise and this is difficult for me at present as they are so different to the technics.

Anyway, my first impression - Sounds Great, Feels Great, Looks great. I will certainly use the piano standalone without connection to PC unless recording to Cubase.

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#2302105 - 07/14/14 06:30 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Hello Adro
When I tried the 585, I though the same about the Bosendorfer sound
to improve / change it, you can tweak with following settings:
- Key sensitivity (it controls the keyboard dynamics) : increasing it make the sound much more live
- key touch => also setting it to soft1 /Soft2 make the sound alive

and if it is not enough, you have also Brightness and Brillance controls

With all these parameters I got I really really pleasant Bosenderfor (at the end, I preferred it to the CFX which requires less tuning to sound good)
Enjoy your 585...
I think I will pull the trigger myself on the 575 (in replacement of my VPC1, as I fully agree with you, I find the touch more precise, less sluggish / faster)
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2302464 - 07/15/14 04:27 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
Adro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 27
Loc: Northants UK
Thanks Enzo, I'll have a go with those parameters on the Bosendorfer. Did you find the 575 and 585 actions equally precise. I've not played both in the same place at the same time but I don't remember having the same instant reaction when I tried the 575.

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#2302470 - 07/15/14 04:48 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: Adro]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 35
Hi Adro,

Congrats on you new DP! I hope you enjoy it as much as I've been enjoying mine. It really has a great feel and a great sound. I just love the yamaha sound myself and the way it is right 'out of the box'. It amazes me how much others are having to tweak their high end Kawai DPs just to get a good acoustic sound.

Pete.

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#2327953 - 09/16/14 03:43 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Paolo C Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 4
Hello,

I wanted to quickly share my CLP 585 purchasing experience here.

I was looking for a digital piano as close as possible in touch and sound to an acoustic one.
Fidelity of touch was actually even more important than sound quality. I had a budget of 4,000 euro (5,000 USD).
I visited a few times some shops in my region (South of France) and tested a few DP models.
In all my tests, I started by playing something on an acoustic piano, then move to a DP, play the same thing and evaluate the difference in feel and sound.
Not a very scientific approach,... just judging from my own feel and taste. For the final test, also, I asked my music teacher to come over with me.

I started by trying out some hybrid pianos, I was in fact fascinated by the Yamaha Avantgrand N2, which I found even better than most acoustic models,
but the price (12,000 euro) was well beyond my reach.
The only “hybrid” option which would fit in my budget was the Yamaha NU1, but somewhat I was not impressed with it, I found it had a bit uneven sound and response…
again, not a scientific argument, it is absolutely personal feeling, but simply I didn’t really fall in love with it.

Therefore I decided to give up on hybrid pianos for now, and turned to good quality "pure" DPs.
I finally restricted my choice to the Yamaha CLP and Roland HP series, and went to a local dealer to test them.
The dealer had no CLP 585 in stock but only other CLP models (575, 545) - and the Roland HP508.
I have to say, when I tried the CLP 545 and 575 I didn't completely like them, especially the touch didn't seem to me very realistic.
Pricewise of course, they were a very good deal, namely the 545. But, don't know how to put it, something was missing.
I also liked the Roland HP508, it was maybe a bit more realistic than the two CLPs, from the "touch" perspective, albeit still softer than the real thing.
To be clear, we are talking about some very good DPs, top of the market, but I was missing that "wow" effect that usually triggers a purchase....

I was at an impasse and couldn't really make a choice when, fortunately, the dealer received some Yamaha CLP 585's and I decided, for peace of mind, to try one.
It was amazing; in my opinion it feels under your fingers VERY different than the other CLP models, with a much more realistic touch. The speakers system is also excellent.
I did some other tests, helped also by my teacher, and the CLP 585 came out as the clear winner in the non-hybrid category (to be fair, it is also the most expensive one that we tried).
So I bought it right away.

I received my CLP 585 a couple of weeks ago and I am enthusiastic about touch response and quality of sound.
It is of course not an acoustic piano but it has a warmth of sound which is impressive, and a very realistic, vibrant touch.
I can only say good things so far, echoing the positive comments made in previous posts.

I am glad I delayed my purchase until a CLP585 was available, in my opinion this model is a far cry from the rest of the CLP series today, and it's well worth a test.
It really stands in a category of its own.

Ciao!
Paolo

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#2340810 - 10/24/14 03:07 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
valle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Finland
Hi, I wanted to make sure that I have understood corrently that the CLP-575/585 doesn't have a note by note voice tweaking? I mean the same type that e.g. the Roland HP-508 has, where you can adjust the brighness and other parameters (maybe even volume) of each note individually. This would make it easier to adjust the piano's sound in a medium size apartment building room with concrete walls.

So, the Yammies don't have this functionality?

What about any kind of narrow or wider band EQ?
_________________________
Roland HP101e

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#2342093 - 10/27/14 05:26 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Alan_Dublin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/24/14
Posts: 14
I'm seriously considering upgrading from my Kawai CN33, which is much loved, to the CLP 585
I had initially decided on the Hybrid NU1 but had to return that piano as it was faulty (discussed in another thread) with sudden key loudness happening several times per min.
My main concern with the NU1 was reliability, lots of people reporting similar issues to mine on here.
So how do people feel about the reliability of the new CLP 500s?

They touch is actually amazing on it. I did also notice in the showroom that the sound was a bit muffled, but the room is a large open area and I would imagine it will sound similar to the NU1 in my home?
They speakers seem to be similar (actually may be more powerful on the 585)
The CFX Grand is a beautiful sound too, and they actually have an acoustic CFX grand in the showroom so I got to try it out too which was amazing, I was just in total awe of it.

My own feeling is that the CLP 585 touch is very similar to acoustic, and I need to change from DP to acoustic for lessons, exams and performances so I think this will suit well for my needs.

So really I just need to be happy with reliability and the speaker sound system.
I did find out on this thread how to reset to factory settings which I will try in the showroom on next visit to see if that's the problem with the sound.

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#2342097 - 10/27/14 05:40 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Why not shell out a couple more bucks for the N1? Unless you absolutely need that string patch on the CLP 585; I hear they're quite realistic, the strings. I believe there's also a sax somewhere in there.

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#2342110 - 10/27/14 06:19 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
pmh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/14
Posts: 20
Loc: South Coast UK
Hi Alan, I have tried out the Yamaha 586 at Yamaha Music London, and I found the sound a bit overblown in that environment. I'm sure this can be attuned to a smaller environment given the experience of those who own the 585. However, for me the touch does not quite suit. Its hard to put my 'finger' on it but there is a bounce to it that takes me out of the illusion of playing a mechanical instrument. Although one can play the 586 gently which is a good thing, after a period of play I felt the soft touch did not really resemble the gentle touch needed for an acoustic. I have come to this conclusion after playing the 585 and then rushing upstairs to play on the Yamaha grands and the upright SE 133 and then rushing back down again. Yamaha London have two floors and a basement. I always thought the Kawai grand feel was a bit on the light side but after playing on the new grands I can see where Kawai are coming from. In my assessment the grand feel does seem closer to the touch of a modern grand piano. However, the Yamaha Avant Grand N2 has in my view the very best touch of all the digitals along with a warm dynamic sound. I just wish it wasn't so darned expensive. I've know idea if any of this will be of help. Its only when you try these piano's yourself will you know which will float your boat. Good luck with your research,

Paul H

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#2342121 - 10/27/14 06:57 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Alan_Dublin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/24/14
Posts: 14
Hi Pete,
I tried the N1 and thought it was amazing, but it's out of my price range.
I'm only really interested in the piano sounds, not strings or other voices or gadgets.

The N1 is actually so good it would make it difficult to switch to an upright acoustic as the N1/N2 are so much better.
I don't know why anyone actually buys acoustic uprights for their homes anymore.

And thanks pmh I agree it's hard to tell about sound in a showroom, I did like the touch on the 585 but I was comparing to upright acoustic and the NU1, they N2 is superior without a doubt, but the N2 is superior to any upright acoustic too.

so its a choice between a CLP 585 now, which meets all my needs, or wait couple of years and getting the N1 or N2 which is by far the best DP option available at the moment. But whatever I buy in this price bracket it will need to last a long time

I hadn't realised what a big decision it is!
It's great to have this site for information and advice.

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#2342125 - 10/27/14 07:13 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Keep in mind that the MSRP's on these are ridiculous ($10,000). I was once quoted $5,900 (taxes and delivery included). Sadly, the price has gone up since. They're going for a little more now. Check for a floor model; these are usually in excellent condition, and you can get substantial discounts.

On the plus side, you now get a Piaggero NP-11 with the purchase of a new hybrid (U.S.A.) Offer good thru December 31st.

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#2342149 - 10/27/14 08:25 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: Pete14]
iceporky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 151
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Pete14
Check for a floor model; these are usually in excellent condition, and you can get substantial discounts.


I was at my local Yamaha shop testing out the 585 and along came 2 kids. One of them started to bang loudly on one of the digital pianos, and went on to do the same to the others. The second kid, probably the sibling, followed suit.

I was quite open to floor models before, but after witnessing that, I now have some reservations.
_________________________
Kawai CA95, ES7.

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#2342267 - 10/28/14 05:00 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: iceporky]
fntms Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 19
re: floor models...

I have a floor model N2 in view that I can't try at a 20% discount (based on the 10% discount you can get on a new N2) they say it was not played more than 30 mins...I asked for a pic of the black keys (below line) and they look as new. Not sure what else I could look for...a 30% discount? It hasn't moved for 3 months since discounted.
_________________________
Pianoteq V5, Galaxy Vintage D, Ivory 2 American D and Italian Grand.
Transit USB + Chinese DAC. Numa Nero.

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#2342268 - 10/28/14 05:13 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Is the discount based on the MSRP ($15,000)? if so, you should get at least a 50% discount. Let me put it this way: Two years ago I received a $7,500 quote for the N2 (brand new). Granted, the price has gone up since; however, I would not pay more than $8,500/9,000 for the N2 (taxes and delivery included).

The dealer might act offended if you offer half the MSRP, but trust me, he is full of it; so is Yamaha for deliberately inflating the MSRP (a very common practice amongst piano makers).

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#2342274 - 10/28/14 06:18 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
fntms Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 19
Thanks Pete14. It's off the usual retail price listed in my EU country (so about 14.5kUSD, MSRP would be 15.6kUSD). Actual transaction price would be perhaps 10-15% lower (based on full grands discounts, without negotiating).
Now Yamaha has this 'piano lemon trade in' offer where you give them the serial number of an upright which gives you a 1300USD rebate on hybrids.
I think I'll offer 6.5K EUR = 8.1kUSD for the floor model (30% off likely transaction price), although I also need to know what year it was made (post 2010 apparently avoids the 'noise gate' issue)...
_________________________
Pianoteq V5, Galaxy Vintage D, Ivory 2 American D and Italian Grand.
Transit USB + Chinese DAC. Numa Nero.

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#2342295 - 10/28/14 08:09 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP 585 [Re: cub]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 291
Yes, definitely confirm the year of manufacture. Asides from the noise gate, Yamaha might've made other improvements over the years. For example, simply having the action regulated by experienced technicians instead of the average-newbie-trainee could make a huge difference in how the piano plays out of the box.

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