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#2291038 - 06/17/14 01:40 PM Kawai MP11 vs CA95
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
The only differences I could find .. other than the CA95 cabinet and all that goes with that of course .. is that:

* CA95 has 80 voices vs 40 for the MP11 (not sure what that means)
* MP11 has more reverb and other effects

Are the virtual technicians the same? Any other standout differences? Like maybe something new with the MP11?

Mainly I'm debating which to buy. No problem weighing the pros and cons except for knowing exactly what is different.

Thanks so much!

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#2291121 - 06/17/14 04:10 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Digitalguy Offline
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Registered: 02/04/14
Posts: 369
Loc: Switzerland
A part from the very big difference of having internal speakers and soundboard for CA95, MP11 has many more knobs and buttons to control many parameters live, as it is a stage piano.
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Roland FP-4F, Korg Kross 61, iRig Keys Pro, RME Babyface, M-Track Plus, Roland DuoCapture, iPad Air, iLoud, Ivory II American, Galaxy Vintage D, Galaxy Steinway, VILabs Ravenscroft, TrueKeys American, Kawai-Ex Pro, The Grand 2, SampleTekk Black, Addictive Keys, Truepianos, Pianissimo, EzKeys, iGrand

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#2291143 - 06/17/14 04:48 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11445
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
While the MP11 has more buttons, everything is pretty much laid out for you so it's easy to switch between voices, make layers, etc. This is as Digitalguy says, more designed for gigging purposes. The CA95, of course, is more of an all-in-one package. The main difference in the number of sounds is that the CA95 has organ sounds plus extra sounds in each category (piano, Epiano, Strings/Pad). So if those are sounds you want, go with the CA95.

There there's also the whole Music Menu/Concert Magic thing in the CA95. I haven't played with it to see what it does, but the MP11 does not have this. It appears to have demo songs fro listening and a lesson section that corresponds with Alfred's method books, which seems pretty handy if you need that. I'm not quite sure what Concert Magic is, but it seems to be more educational than performance-oriented.

As far as the Effects and Reverb stuff, really the extras for that have more to do with performing needs. So, I think it's safe to say that if you are planning on performing, get the MP11 (and if you need other sounds, the MP11 is a great MIDI controller). If you will use it strictly at home and like/want the added educational features (and the stand, speakers and sound board), go with the CA95.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291172 - 06/17/14 05:14 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Morodiene]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?

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#2291254 - 06/17/14 07:19 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Digitalguy]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
Digitalguy,

Thanks, that's something I hadn't considered.

Doubt I'll need the performing features, at least not for a long time, so it's good to know.


Edited by Mark Marziale (06/17/14 07:20 PM)

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#2291262 - 06/17/14 07:38 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Morodiene]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
Morodiene,

Thanks so much for your detailed and thoughtful reply. You've made the difference in orientation between them very clear.

Mainly I was thinking of the MP11 as possibly a less expensive version of a CA95, not for performing. Though the portability is a plus if I do go that route someday. Of course there is the extra cost and hassle of a stand and monitors.

Really where I'm coming from is I'm looking for a keyboard in addition to my Kawai K3 upright. There's a couple things that drive me crazy about the upright - namely going out of tune, and some things are impossible for me to do on it, unlike on the grands where I take my lessons.

Don't really want to go whole hog into a grand, at least for a couple years, but in the meantime want something without the disadvantages of the upright. The action of the CA95 (which I've tried - not yet tried the MP11) seems much closer to a grand than the K3.

I prefer the sound of an acoustic piano .. that's why the first piano I bought was the K3 last year after going round and round with digitals vs acoustics. And I still think it's important to put in regular practice on an acoustic, even an upright. So I'm looking for something kind of sort of like a grand action wise and I'll put up with the sound differences.

Got a little long winded but felt I owed you!



Edited by Mark Marziale (06/17/14 07:40 PM)

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#2291300 - 06/17/14 08:56 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11445
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Mark, in that case, to save a little you can't go wrong with the MP11. I bought that and I love it, although I don't do much gigging with it, I do go north for the summers and so I needed a traveling instrument for that. It feels very much like a grand piano. The pedals don't, but I think it's the same pedals for both pianos. They work well enough, however.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291302 - 06/17/14 08:58 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Mark, Morodiene's comparison is very accurate.

Essentially, the MP11 shares the same keyboard and sound technology as the CA95. However, as a stage piano, the MP11 offers far greater control over the sounds produced, with features that are geared towards live and studio performing.

While the CA95 does allow the player to adjust various settings and parameters through the same 'Virtual Technician' functions as the MP11, it is arguably intended more as a 'standalone' instrument that individuals turn on, sit down and play. As Morodiene notes, there are also additional lesson, concert magic, piano music, and demonstration functions not present on the MP11.

If I was in your position, I would be more inclined to opt for the MP11 over the CA95, as you already have a very nice 'standalone' piano in the K-3 upright. Even if you have no intention of performing live in the near future, the portability and additional control functions of the MP11 will provide greater flexibility.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2291307 - 06/17/14 09:09 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Enthusiast]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?


The F-30 pedal unit included with the MP11 is designed for portable use, and therefore different to the Grand Feel pedal system utilised by the CA95.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2291323 - 06/17/14 09:25 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11445
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?


The F-30 pedal unit included with the MP11 is designed for portable use, and therefore different to the Grand Feel pedal system utilised by the CA95.

Kind regards,
James
x


How do they differ? Are the CA95 ones longer? Do they have more resistance?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291339 - 06/17/14 10:04 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
cub Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 33
Can I also add that the 'concert magic' is a lot of fun for kids and non musical family members to play on with the CA95. My 9 year old son loved it and he also enjoyed showing others how to play including his 3 year old cousin.

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#2291365 - 06/17/14 10:51 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
MLFLY Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/25/14
Posts: 24
"Doubt I'll need the performing features, at least not for a long time, so it's good to know."

Taking into account this means you may be relatively new to Piano, remember this about highly customizable gear - we have no clue what we are doing - LOL

IOW, simpler is sometimes better. A CA 95 would make me very happy.

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#2291467 - 06/18/14 04:28 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Morodiene]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?


I second the question! smile

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#2291468 - 06/18/14 04:38 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
Kawai James,

Thanks, factoring in the K3 makes a lot of sense.

The advantages of the CA95 for home use that you mention don't hold a lot of appeal for me. The pedals do matter though, so I'll wait for your answer to Morodiene on that.

The other consideration is that, even though I'm accepting a compromise in the sound compared to the K3 (in my opinion), I wonder if the soundboard adds that much over the sound of the MP11? Along the same lines, finding monitors that are comparable in sound quality - disregarding the soundboard - may be a hassle. Or stick to headphones I suppose.

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#2291484 - 06/18/14 06:44 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
EP Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 371
Loc: USA
Regarding the pedals -
One nice thing about the MP11 triple pedal is that you can place it where you want. I once had a CA9 and the pedals were too close to me, being built into the piano. With the MP11, I can place them in the same relative position they are on my grand, which is further away from my body.
The pedals are a little soft, but I've added a piece of foam under the pedal to increase the resistance. I'm going to experiment with putting a spring under there instead.
I haven't seen the CA95, so I don't know how the pedals are on it.
Of course with the CA95, the pedals won't move around on you, but I haven't found that to be a problem with the triple pedal like it is with single pedals.

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#2291531 - 06/18/14 08:26 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Mark Marziale
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?


I second the question! smile


The CA95's Grand Feel pedal system utilises individually weighted damper, sostenuto, and soft pedals that attempt to replicate the pedal resistance of a concert grand piano.

The MP11's F-30 pedal unit does not offer this feature.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2291550 - 06/18/14 08:48 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11445
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Mark Marziale
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
How do the pedals of the F30 compare to the Grand Feel pedals for realism?


I second the question! smile


The CA95's Grand Feel pedal system utilises individually weighted damper, sostenuto, and soft pedals that attempt to replicate the pedal resistance of a concert grand piano.

The MP11's F-30 pedal unit does not offer this feature.

Kind regards,
James
x
The F-30 pedals aren't really annoying to me, just not as substantial as I would like. I can see how anything more substantial would be bulky for gigging, however, so it makes sense.

Is there a less portable 3-pedal unit one could buy if they wanted the bigger pedals? Or can a person purchase a set of the CA95 pedals? I have an old upright that I was going to gut and put the MP11 inside, so it doesn't have to have a frame or box since it would be put in the piano frame.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291803 - 06/18/14 08:11 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Morodiene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Is there a less portable 3-pedal unit one could buy if they wanted the bigger pedals? Or can a person purchase a set of the CA95 pedals? I have an old upright that I was going to gut and put the MP11 inside, so it doesn't have to have a frame or box since it would be put in the piano frame.


I don't believe it's possible for a customer to purchase just the CA95 pedals, unfortunately. Moreover, the pedal connector would not be compatible with the MP11's 1/4" jack plugs.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2291807 - 06/18/14 08:36 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
EP Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 371
Loc: USA
I got a spring, about 5/8 in dia by an inch and a half or so long, and stuck it under the end of the sustain pedal to give it some extra resistance. Seems to be about right to match the pedal on my grand. Length, travel and height above the floor, and distance between the pedals also quite closely match those on my piano, so I've got no complaints. Definitely a closer match than the pedals on either of my teachers' pianos. One of them is a Baldwin upright on which the pedals are quite soft, the other is a Steinway grand, on which they are quite heavy. My Yamaha is in-between.
FWIW, Nord sells a 3-pedal outfit, don't know how it would compare, but it's $400!

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#2291810 - 06/18/14 08:51 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: EP]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11445
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: EP

FWIW, Nord sells a 3-pedal outfit, don't know how it would compare, but it's $400!
Yikes! At that price it better be solid gold.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2291928 - 06/19/14 05:24 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Morodiene]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
The discussion to this point has helped me decide I need to at least try the MP11. Since there aren't any around I'll order one from Musicians Friend and will have 45 days to try it at home. I'm out shipping both ways if I return it, but that's more than fair.

It'll be good to switch between it and the K3 as well, and I'll visit the Kawai dealer to try the CA95 again. Should be able to get a good pedal comparison that way.

Will include the K&M 18950 stand in the order. I'll report back on the minimum floor to key top height; I don't think that's been definitively reported in the forums yet.

Thanks everyone for the discussion so far, it's been excellent and very helpful.

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#2291964 - 06/19/14 07:52 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Mark, I look forward to hearing your thoughts about the MP11.

Good choice on the K&M 18950 too! wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2292293 - 06/19/14 06:40 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
It will be my pleasure to report back. Should be shipping in a week or so.

Hey - it was your say so that sold me on the K&M 18950! smile

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#2292311 - 06/19/14 07:15 PM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8877
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: markmarz
Hey - it was your say so that sold me on the K&M 18950! smile


Great. I think those folks in Germany owe me a commission. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2292838 - 06/21/14 03:30 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
HaraldC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: markmarz
Will include the K&M 18950 stand in the order. I'll report back on the minimum floor to key top height; I don't think that's been definitively reported in the forums yet.


Yes, please do so. I am looking at the same setup and the stand seems a wee bit high to me (or to the limit at best even tho short I am not)

Is this a stand for playing standing ? (rather than sitting)

Cheers.

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#2295655 - 06/27/14 05:19 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: markmarz]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
MP11 was supposed to be in stock today at Musician's Friend. Checked and now the date is July 28.

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#2295692 - 06/27/14 08:57 AM Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Kawai James]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: markmarz
Hey - it was your say so that sold me on the K&M 18950! smile


Great. I think those folks in Germany owe me a commission. wink


I also got that stand on your say so for my MP10 (I'll give my own impressions on the MP10 when I've finalized the speakers). It's a big DP and having seen my last stand (X stand) collapse with a light P-35 I wanted something safe and stable for this.

I also got the MP10 from a local shop even though it was a bit more expensive than what Thomann had it for based on what you'd said in another thread about dealing with Kawai Europe as opposed to Kawai UK. Thomann had it for 1294 just before they sold out.

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#2309200 - 57 minutes 49 seconds ago Re: Kawai MP11 vs CA95 [Re: Enthusiast]
markmarz Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 20
Loc: IL
The MP11 finally arrived! Sitting on the K&M 18950 with the extenders inserted but fully collapsed the floor to key top height is just under 29 1/4". Same measurement for K-3 upright is 30 1/4" .. almost exactly 1" greater. I'll measure a Steinway grand where I'm taking lessons someday to compare.

Rock solid and unmoving on the K&M 18950. Thanks James! Oh if anyone knows whether there's a preferred placement of the MP11 on the K&M please clue me in. I saw nothing in the manual and no obvious indications on the bottom of the MP11 where it should contact the stand.

The action of the MP11 is better than I remember the action on the CA95 - which doesn't make a lot of sense but it's not a side to side comparison. It's very very good. Sound is excellent, too! Right now have it hooked up to a re-purposed Bose 3.2.1 Series II system with the little main speakers on top at either end of the MP11 and the subwoofer under one side. Sounds good to me.

Still wondering what I'm missing without a soundboard. But the cost difference is very large just for that, especially with the 15% discount on the MP11 ($2,379 from Musician's Friend; add another $240 for the stand).

Very glad to have the K-3 in the same room to easily compare actions and sound. Very much prefer the action of the MP11 - the upright is way harder to play. The MP11 feels about the same weight-wise as a Steinway concert grand I've been taking lessons on - perhaps slightly lighter but again that's from memory. Still the Steinway action and sound is in an entirely different league. For $100,000+ it better be. And acoustic actions vary widely, I've learned that much.

Oh, and I had a chance to try an RD800 for a few days in my home. Didn't like the action on it at all - keys bounced back in a way that felt sort of spring loaded. Not for me.

Now I'll have to see what my teacher says about my practicing on a digital. Pretty sure I know the answer to that one, unfortunately.

One last thought - heavy things have definitely gotten heavier since I was young. Had thought I might pack the MP11 in my car for an upcoming vacation. That seems unlikely now.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice in helping me make this decision!



Edited by markmarz (53 minutes 54 seconds ago)

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