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#2292753 - 06/20/14 08:51 PM Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160
Wildwest Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 3
Hi everyone, I've been perusing the forums and enjoying everyone's comments. My question is regarding the purchase of a new hailun grand 161 vs a new johannes seiler gs-160. My wife and I tested both today and like the sound and action of both pianos. The price us the same $9800. From the forums I've been able to read quite a bit about the hailun and it sounds like a good entry level piano and tends to be a good value for what is being paid. I can't find much on the johannes seiler. I understand it is assembled in Indonesia. I think it is newer to the us market. It sounds nice. The particular dealer I was spewing with ( he is carrying both pianos) said his personal preference is the johannes seiler. Any thoughts? Thanks

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#2292755 - 06/20/14 09:02 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
PhilipInChina Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1242
Loc: China
Spewing?
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#2292813 - 06/21/14 12:51 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Wildwest Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 3
Hmmm, yeah that should say speaking smile

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#2292818 - 06/21/14 01:22 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 982
Do you play, if so approx what level? Do you have a preference?

Did you like the "feel" and touch of the Hailun or Seiler?

I haven't played a Seiler yet, but have played the Hailuns. I crossed Hailuns out of consideration because I hated the key tops and the keyboard. Felt cheap and clunky.

The tone was Ok, but still a little shallow to me.

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#2292923 - 06/21/14 10:25 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7304
Loc: torrance, CA
Hailun has been making and marketing the 161 for nearly a decade. The model has proven to be a good piano for its price. The Seiler model hasn't been around all that long. Samick Music (SMC) rescued the German brand Seiler from bankruptcy a few years ago and took advantage of Seiler's knowledge and prestige to give its own Indonesian product a facelift. I wouldn't hold that against the Seiler/Samick models. Samick has proven in the past that it can make good pianos under a wide variety of names.

The salesman's personal preference may be just that, but it's also possible that the shop would rather move one of these pianos than the other for business reasons. You and your wife should keep playing them until your own preference emerges. My guess is that you're safe with either piano.

Originally Posted By: Wildwest
My wife and I tested both today and like the sound and action of both pianos.


Originally Posted By: Michaelha
Did you like the "feel" and touch of the Hailun or Seiler?


It would do no harm to compare the keytops of the two pianos, but I would downplay the value of comments made by someone who igores the information you already provided and posts his hatred of one of these brands. I've been playing pianos, good and not-so-good, for a long time. I've pitied some, but never hated a single one.
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#2293051 - 06/21/14 03:50 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: turandot]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 982
Originally Posted By: turandot


Originally Posted By: Michaelha
Did you like the "feel" and touch of the Hailun or Seiler?


It would do no harm to compare the keytops of the two pianos, but I would downplay the value of comments made by someone who igores the information you already provided and posts his hatred of one of these brands. I've been playing pianos, good and not-so-good, for a long time. I've pitied some, but never hated a single one.


Sorry, perhaps hate is too strong a word. I didn't like the keytops but I might be a little more sensitive to keytops. Similarly, I have a hard time playing on really old pianos with old and damaged ivory keytops. I think it's a valid feature to consider.

Somewhat related, I'm shopping for a new DSLR camera and a lot of criticism I've received from friends is they really don't like Canon's case materials, feels cheap and weak to them. And that played into picking a different brand.

Actually, I don't hate Hailun at all. I like their story, just don't love their pianos yet.

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#2293067 - 06/21/14 04:16 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Wildwest Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 3
Thanks for your responses. I definitely plan on spending more time playing both. I know that neither one has a real long track record, but the johannes seiler in particular seems pretty new to the market so it is tougher to know what to expect

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#2293098 - 06/21/14 05:17 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2772
Loc: Atlanta, GA
In comparing the 2 tonally, I would describe the Hailun 161 as more complex and Johannes Seiler 160 as more clear. Our Johannes Seilers arrive more mellow, and we will voice the Hailuns down if we want the same warmth. The Hailun has a stronger low bass and can be dynamically louder than the Johannes Seiler, but the clear tone in the melody area of that Johannes Seiler is unusually outstanding.

They certainly have different tonal identities such that, so far, all of our customers have expressed a strong preference for one or the other.

The keytops for the Johannes are typical smooth. Hailun has very, very light texture to the naturals and ebony (naturally textured) sharps. Sometimes there is compound on the ebony that has to be rubbed off a brand new instrument, but that is only temporary. For most customers, the subtle textures are preferred.

While Johannes Seiler series is newer to the market, they are from an established brand and established maker built to compete with other mid-level makers with a combination of mid-level & premium components. It's not really a mystery as to their future - with proper maintenance, it will be a fine piano for decades to come. Given the strong push and focusing of brands from the builder, it will gain in reputation. Hailun certainly has.

Good luck in your search!
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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#2293100 - 06/21/14 05:20 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2820
Loc: western Wisconsin
I don't have tons of "seat time" with these models, but have tried both. You will note both of them (the Cunningham 5'4" is related to the Hailun 161) and the Seiler GS-160 are both Piano Buyer "Staff Picks" that, in my limited experience, performed quite well for the price.

If the dealers prepped the pianos well, and you enjoyed your experience at both stores, and you have the time, I'd go back and play a while longer on both instruments, uninterrupted, until you find the one that "fits" you (and your space) the best.
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#2354083 - 11/23/14 09:28 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
MusicMasters Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Austin
We sell the HG-161 here in Austin. I can confirm that there was a period of time in 2013 where the Ebony sharps (genuine) had a rough finish. The dealer should have caught that during prep. However, it only takes less than 1 hour of tech labor to buff out any "gritty" texture on the sides.

A small price to pay for real ebony. Meanwhile, quality control is now being supervised by Paul Rea personally. No more "clunky" keytops! wink
_________________________
Brian Henselman, RPT
Owner, MusicMasters Piano Showroom, Austin, TX
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#2354417 - 11/24/14 08:54 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
MainevilleMike Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/14
Posts: 19
Loc: Ohio, USA
We purchased a Hailun 161 back in May of this year. It is a really nice piano and we did not have any complaint about the quality of the piano. However, my wife liked it, but did not love it. We decided to revisit the dealer and try the 178. The dealer had a 178 and a 161 very close together in the store so we were able to get a good comparison between the two pianos. The 178 sounded so much better that the 161. The bass was much richer. The whole sound was much warmer and more resonant than the 161. So we are now owners of a 178.

I say all this to recommend that you check out the 178. There is not a huge difference in price. The dealer that we visited had the 178 priced about 1500 higher than the 161.

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#2354428 - 11/24/14 09:43 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: MusicMasters]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 997
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
[quote=Fabian]We sell the HG-161 here in Austin.

The rules
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#2354429 - 11/24/14 09:46 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: MusicMasters]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 997
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: Fabian
We sell the HG-161 here in Austin.


Forum rules for Piano Pros
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I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2354458 - 11/25/14 12:08 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
When confused between 2 "similar" type pianos, it can be helpful to also compare perhaps some 'specs' between them.

It doesn't say everything about a piano but can still be a somewhat useful indicator of things.

In fact,it may sometimes say more about the "company" than the piano itself.

http://seilerpianousa.com/seiler-pianos/johannes-seiler-gs-160/

http://www.hailun-pianos.com/products/grand-pianos/piano/2/grand_model_hg_161.html

The Hailun is a nice piano [don't know the "Johannes Seiler] however it does appear that the J.S. seems to have slightly larger soundboard area. Not totally conclusive of course...

However,the J.S. also has an AA solid spruce soundboard - not an "all spruce" laminate as does the Hailun.

No,there may not be always a big difference between them but laminates are cheaper for the maker to use,the obvious reason they are becoming more prominent in smaller grands.

However,it appears contradicting Hailun's website claim stating that their smaller grands
Quote:
are build with all of the features of the larger professional grand pianos.


When checking specs,i.e "features" with their own larger "professional grands", those pianos suddenly start using higher grade German Abel hammers and solid/tapered soundboards - unlike their smaller grands.

http://www.hailun-pianos.com/products/grand-pianos/piano/7/grand_model_hg_198.html

A fact that would surely be quickly pointed if you were interested in some of those models.

Intended confusion? Coincidence? What are "same features" when essential specs are changing in different models?

The industry seems to offer an increasing number of these type 'confusions' but IMHO the companies don't do themselves a favor doing it. Consumers getting smarter all the time...

IMHO not the most effective or "convincing" way to instill a confidence and trust into a brand. My 2 cents.

Of course, the choice is always yours. None of what I said may even have the slightest relevance to you.

Final advice: why not play both pianos again and see where your heart will be pointing you. It's all one can really do!

Wishing you the best!

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (11/25/14 03:17 AM)
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
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#2354482 - 11/25/14 04:00 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Norbert]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1153
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Norbert

Intended confusion? Coincidence? What are "same features" when essential specs are changing in different models?

The industry seems to offer an increasing number of these type 'confusions' but IMHO the companies don't do themselves a favor doing it. Consumers getting smarter all the time..
I wonder if the folks who write the marketing material even have deep knowledge about pianos. I'm not even sure if marketing "features" (and many/most of the manufacturers do this) is worthwhile. All the features in the world don't mean a thing if the instrument stinks. Do other musicians shop for features? A violinist: Oh... I don't know about this violin... it doesn't have the latest feature...
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#2354690 - 11/25/14 03:40 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
JonathanNV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/14
Posts: 22
Loc: Las Vegas
When I was shopping for my first grand piano earlier this year, the Hailun 178 and the Seiler ES-168 were my second and first runner up, respectively. Because of the shape and installation of the Seiler's soundboard in particular, that piano's tone is remarkably clear and bell-like. The Johannes line is somewhat cost-compromised, but it does attempt to incorporate the unique Seiler design philosophy. To me, though, the ES line is a true value (if one likes that sort of sound) and worthy of stretching to buy.

All that said, I preferred the sound of my Estonia even more! Still, both brands offer outstanding contenders.
_________________________
Jonathan
______________

Proud owner of an Estonia L168

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#2358648 - 12/05/14 05:58 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
B N S Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Calgary
As the longest standing authorized Hailun Dealer in Canada, I am concerned with some of the unfounded negative insinuations with regard to Hailun pianos. My customers who have purchased Hailun pianos since 2007 were shopping for high quality, exceptional tone and touch, and great value. Many of these customers are graduates of top piano colleges and universities including Tchaikovsky Music Conservatory in Russia, Juilliard in New York City, McGill Music Conservatory in Montreal to name just a few. Obviously, these musicians have played a great number of world class pianos during their studying and concertizing worldwide. This is one of the greatest compliments to a Piano Dealer who has been in the piano business for 50+ years.
When I first started with Hailun pianos, there were many customers who were hesitant to purchase because it was an “unknown” brand. However, the beautiful tone of the piano and the responsive touch convinced them to select Hailun. Now I have customers calling and asking if I have specific models in stock!
The MMR Acoustic Piano Line of the year has been awarded to Hailun 3 consecutive years in a row (2012, 2013 and 2014). Previously this award was granted to well-known Japanese piano companies who had been in the market for decades. This substantiates my comment about customers seeking the best instruments with regards to tone, touch, quality of manufacturing and value. BTW, Hailun also has one of the finest warranties in the industry.

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#2358679 - 12/05/14 07:39 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
As ex-Hailun dealer I can attest that the Hailun 178 is certainly a very nice piano one can definitely recommmend.
However the shorter 161 [as well as Hailun's larger grands] were only so-so.

After taking on Ritmuller and Brodmann later and displaying them on same floor, it was very interesting to see which pianos were being picked by those trying the different brands in same showroom.

Please note: we had no vested interest pushing one over the other: we offered them all. But the result was almost overwhelming.

We made our own experience - others will surely make theirs...

Good luck!

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (12/05/14 07:44 PM)
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#2358729 - 12/06/14 12:27 AM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Kieran Wells Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 243
Loc: Saint Paul, MN
Well, its been a while, but I'll bite.

The Seiler and the Hailun are very different. I sell both of them--the Hailun for longer. I would not go on about one board being better than the other--it is like duplex design; a choice in design for that piano. I would also add that Samick took the Seiler GS160 scale from Bechstein--the sound is maybe more earthy. Hailun's 161 is a great piano with more volume and a different tone--some compare it to Schimmel. They both have really nice actions and hammers. Samick preps their pianos here and does a nice job. We do a little more prep on the GS series than the ED. Both the ED and GS Seilers have Renner parts. The ED actually has a Renner assembled action. Hailun makes actions for a lot of the really high end pianos out there in addition to their own too. Hailun is doing a great job prepping their pianos--they are coming in really nice.

I value both lines for different reasons. People extol the virtues of where things come from rather than the quality of what they are, but on that; Seiler still makes pianos in Germany. They also assemble pianos in Indonesia. Hailun makes pianos in China, but Hailun has done a lot for some of those 'German' and 'Japanese' companies--and has for a long time. There is a lot of cross-pollenation and this tight knit industry. While we sell a lot of Steinway pianos to the people who demand them, there are discerning enthusiasts and pros who are pulling the trigger on quality pianos that their neighbors may not have heard of.

Just a footnote about Hailun: They are really stable after break-in. We have many in churches, clubs, high schools, and universities that are constantly abused and live in harsh conditions, that are doing great. There is one in a prominent studio here that is stellar.
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#2358874 - 12/06/14 12:44 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Markarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 494
Loc: Seattle Area
Steinway fanboy here, who has a serious soft spot for the Hailun 178, tho I have never played a Seiler. I loved the Hailun, but thought their offerings below 178 were a little pedestrian.

Maybe I missed something in this thread, but I think a lot of dealers doth protest too much when it comes to Hailun. I generally see that everyone likes them or at least respects them. For their price, there's very little not to love, amirite?

Michael, I'm an avid amateur photog and I recently switched from Canon to Nikon after seven years. Canon DOES use inferior weather sealing and construction in all their DSLRs beneath their very top of the line 1 series and is too miserly with important features in their midrange to make them a good value. Buy Canon if you want an entry level (Rebel) SLR and don't see yourself getting more serious, but stay away if you think you might upgrade someday. They have drawn a line in the sand that favors videographers and leaves stills photographers with a confusing array of products that are often playing second fiddle to Nikon in terms of image quality, color rendition, and user interface.


Edited by Markarian (12/06/14 12:47 PM)
_________________________
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#2358887 - 12/06/14 01:02 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I loved the Hailun, but thought their offerings below 178 were a little pedestrian.


Good one!

Wondering what you would call the pianos above the 178?

Norbert grin
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2358902 - 12/06/14 01:46 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Markarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 494
Loc: Seattle Area
More than just a pleasant jog in the park! But seriously, I've wanted to try out a 218 to see how it compares to my B. The recordings I've heard have impressed me, to say the least.
_________________________
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#2358914 - 12/06/14 02:16 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Wildwest]
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1268
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
I haven';t played the smaller Hailun grands but did get a chance to briefly play the Hailun 218. I was really impressed with it's tone and action. Definitely one to check out for someone looking for a new 7' size grand at a not out of this world price.

Rich
_________________________
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Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#2359671 - 12/08/14 05:59 PM Re: Hailun 161 vs johannes seiler gs-160 [Re: Norbert]
B N S Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Calgary
In regards the Hailun grands smaller than HG178 I wouldn't consider them "pedestrian".
A very accomplished pianist, Juilliard graduate and masterclass instructor selected the Hailun HG151 after auditioning many other brands of smaller grands. In his testimonial he states that the Hailun HG151 has the qualities of a concert grand. This is one of the highest compliments a piano of this size could receive. The scale designs of the Hailun grands, quality of materials and manufacturing brings forth comments like this on a regular basis.

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