Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Piano ID help

It's possible the case has been modified. To me, the interior screams pre-1900.

Yes, the presence of key-rockers is telling. Can't say that I've never seen these in post-1900 actions, but off the top of my head, I only recall them in pianos from the 1800s. Hard to tell but the tuning pins look small - like #1/0's. Open face block...

Beyond this the piano isn't saying much.

The guts of that puppy look older, by the design, than 1922. It looks late 19 Century. I think that we might be misreading 31.1.22 and assuming it is a date. Using a period (dot) as a date separator is a relatively recent usage. I would expect to see 31-1-22 if it were a date. I haven't run across many casting dates on a frame. Patent date, certainly, but a casting date?

Vlad,

Would it be possible to post a photo of one of the candle sconces? That would help with time period of the build or of the "face-lift."

The candelabra escutcheons appear to be of the Biedermeier style, which was popular in the late 19th C. That would also explain the curved legs. This period preceded Deco and Nouveau and influenced both.

Yes, and it's also 85 keys. The strangely boxy look of the case also screams "modified" -- by someone who was fairly good at woodworking, but amateurish at design.

1922 looks about right to me, transitioning from Art Nouveau to Art Deco. It screams European, with the wooden action brackets, flat stringing. 85 key pianos were made until at least the 1970s. It could be Australian, which would fit in with elements that seem old-fashioned.

I have seen legs like that in pictures of other pianos posted here.

This is like that British TV series 'Antiques Roadshow', except the end resolution won't be someone in an upper-class accent informing vladguan his piano would fatch thausands of paunds at awwction.

Australian and NZ piano brands starting with 'B' may include Beale and Charles Begg.

I think I heard that piano serial numbers back in the day would sometimes use the year as the last two digits. For example the serial number of my piano (made in England, sold in NZ in 1924) is 3222. But I suppose it's overly optimistic to assume vladguan has 1871 mechanicals in a 1917 case..

Lower part of the piano looks to have been in standing water. Note the watermark on the side, possibly the soundboard, but not the backposts/frame. So much doesn't seem to match. I wonder if we're looking at the result of an insurance claim or a trade-in "resurrection": otherwise useless piano(s) cannibalized for acceptable replacement parts, then refinish, new hammers, new damper heads/felts, new keytops.

Marty, the two separators are dashes and not dots. Would it be a serial number?

Sure, will do tonight or tomorrow and post it up here. Also, if you guys checkout the photobucket album, there were a few close ups that I did not link on here.

Hmm, upon further googling, I found the following thread on piano-tuners UK:
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=506

Namely, a post by Bill Kibby mentions a circa 1920 Emile Auberon upright #32,300 from Wheatlands has their warranty label. The number 214B is encircled on the iron frame. Shenstone keys #5988.

Ours is encircled 214B on the frame, #31122 and #5971 on the first two keys. It is very similar looking to the following ebay item:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Upright-Emile-Auberon-/350891649408?nma=true&si=ij6glgdSCvwbNhLx5VE96rMNXc0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Sounds as if you have identified it then.

I have to agree with Marty. Unless the piano maker's logo in cast in the plate or harp, foundry digits alone are not a very reliable method of identifying a piano. Different makers often used the same foundry.

Complicating matters is the style (or similar) of piano can be found from manufacturers in Germany, France, Australia and the UK. Some with sconces, sometimes without. (These could have been added later.) Here is a similar piano that was for sale in New Zealand - an "Antique Waldermar (Berlin) Upright Piano."



But don't give up just yet. Perseverance may pay in the long run.

A good idea. These could help to narrow the search: the period of manufacturing and maybe the country of origin. Look for marks or logos on these too. I seem to notice tattered cloth backing. Have you considered removing this to see if anything is indicated on the back side of the posts?

Why not post your pictures on that UK forum and ask Bill Kibby.

Hi all, thanks again for the inputs. Yes, I have made a similar post. It is still awaiting moderator approval.

Anyhow, here are three photos of the sconces.

On table:


Right one on piano:


Left one on piano:


I must confess I did not study the sconces for markings closely. We will pull it out from against the wall on the weekend to see if there are any other markings etc.

Cheers,
Vlad

Is there no name under the music tray when folded down? If there isn't, it is very possible that it was refinished and or modified not to have any sort of makers name on it. What I am confused about it that I would expect a piano of this straight-strung style to be "overdamped", like many other old instruments. Perhaps its a rarity and someone did take a very old instrument, refit the action and cabinetry, and made it their own. Maybe its experimental. I know of the Beale Piano Company of Australia, but I do not know if they are old enough to produce a piano like this. Looks vaguely similar to old straight-strung Bluthners. Could I ask where you bought this piano from? A shop? All in all everything looks new, so maybe it was a complete overhaul. Thanks