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#2299778 - 07/08/14 08:24 AM Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Hello everybody and thanks for the welcome. I am a solo gigging musician living in Ibiza, Spain. I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I own a Kawai MP11 for about 6 days now. I first tried the Mp7 for about 2 weeks but returned it because I was not satisfied with the AP sounds and the action. The dealer took it back but warned me that I will not be able to return or exchange the MP11 because they had to order it exclusively for me since they did not have one in stock and no one else wants it. I previously owned (for almost 20 years) a Yamaha Clavinova PF 100E but it has seen better days and the velocity sensors were giving me trouble. My problem is, I have tried everything humanly possible to get a decent Concert Grand sound out of my MP11 but it is impossible. Alarm bells already rang when neither the MP7 nor the MP11 sounded right on my Sennheiser headphones. I use a Yamaha EMX 5000 powered mixer with passive JBL EON 1500 Speakers. I am not here to bash the MP11. The EPs and the Grand Feel action are sensational. I have spent almost 3 weeks now battling with the Virtual Technician to get ONE good Acoustic Piano. Just ONE. That's all I need. ONE. I am beaten and highly frustrated. The sound is either thin and dull from 1 octave under middle C and upwards or harsh and "tinny" when I raise the brilliance, brightness, or high EQ gain. I beg any knowledgeable MP11 owners out there to give me advice on how to set the Virtual Technician and EQ. My wife is walking around with this I told you so grin for the last few days like Kramer from Seinfeld. Help me somebody. Everything else about the MP11 is great and has added class and an unequaled stage presence.

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#2299803 - 07/08/14 09:36 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11390
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
It is possible that you were so accustomed to the sound of your previous DP that that has become your benchmark? 20 years is a long time to listen to one piano sound. What are you comparing your sound to?

Is your problem with the sound while gigging (over loudspeakers) or is it just with the headphones? More than likely you will use different settings for home and for gigging.

Now if you want to absolute best piano sound, you will have to go the software route. I really haven't heard anything that gets as close as most of the software out there.

Or if you really just love your old Yamaha sound, hook it up via MIDI and play the sound through the MP11.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2299815 - 07/08/14 10:18 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Morodiene]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
You may be right about me being hung up on the old Yamaha sound. I gave the Yamaha to my Son's ex grade school and promised to repair the velocity sensors when I get the time. Can't take it back now. I'm gigging 6 days a week. The MP11 looks so classy and impressive on stage!! (Can't get over it). I get people walking up to the stage commenting on how great it looks and asking about price and where to acquire one. I perform for about 300 people every night. I have a repertoire ranging from light Jazz to Soul and Jazz Ballads , Boogie, Jive, and 50s Rock n Roll (Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, etc).That said,my problem is while gigging. A few tweaks will always bring out the best in the MP11 over headphones. And they are high quality headphones.I accept that it could also be my PA sound system. But, there is still a fullness missing in this DP that I always had in the Yamaha. Having paid 2179 €uros in cash for the MP11,I am not in a position to buy any new sound gear right now. I was hoping for some advice on EQ settings. There are two pages of settings in the EQ display page. I don't know how to use the second page. Surely there must be some knowledgeable person out there who knows these things. I thank you all in advance and will be grateful for any help.


Edited by Abby Pianoman (07/08/14 10:53 AM)

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#2299820 - 07/08/14 10:25 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11390
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I'm not much help for the EQ stuff, but sounds to me like you'd want to bring out the mid-range a bit, or lessen the highs. Have you played around with the Jazz piano sounds? Or are you speaking strictly of the Concert Grand. I think the Concert Grand is a better solo piano sound, but in a gigging situation where there's probably noise you are playing over, you may need something slightly different.

If nothing works, it maybe be time to upgrade your speakers. Hey, it's all tax-deductible, right? smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2299823 - 07/08/14 10:33 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
By the way.RE:The software route. I bought the MP11 in order not to have computers and other stuff on stage. I am a solo artist and I already move a Van load of equipment every day. The MP11 plus case already weighs 44 kilos.I am though keeping an open mind and would be interested in any recommendations on which is the best Piano software to buy. And thank you for your prompt reply.

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#2299824 - 07/08/14 10:43 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
It is indeed tax-deductible but not entirely. I was speaking strictly about the Concert Grand. I wanted to get one Piano sound right, before moving on to the others. I did like the 2nd Jazz Grand but it too needs a bit of tweaking. Make no mistake, I love the Piano (My back hates it!!). I just would like to get it's full potential across to the audience. I enjoy it on headphones at home. But I am the only listener.

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#2299825 - 07/08/14 10:44 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
44 kilos is 96.8 pounds

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#2299827 - 07/08/14 10:52 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
I have been following this forum everyday for over a month now. The posts here convinced me to make the big jump and get myself a Kawa MP11. I don't regret that decision. Because I've rewarded myself with an exquisite Instrument. I just hoped someone could give me a few tips. Maybe Kawai James could jump in? Anybody?


Edited by Abby Pianoman (07/08/14 11:34 AM)

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#2299844 - 07/08/14 11:44 AM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Abby Pianoman, I think you may have to accept the MP for what it is. Despite the Virtual Technician and excellent EQ control, the original samples are the basis for the sound - and compared to both Yamaha and Roland they are a little thinner and can sound a touch brittle/harsh. You don't get quite the same fullness of tone with the Kawai - one might describe it as more "delicate," but also less "hyped" than, say, the SN pianos. Obviously, if you start with a very rich and full sound, you can subtract from it, but you can't effectively add what isn't there.

I have the MP7, and I agree with your assessment that the EPs are great, but it is more difficult to find a "meaty" AP sound. Despite the 88-note sampling of the main concert grand, it sounds to me like the older concert grand 2 has pretty obvious, and quite wide, stretch groups (at least on the MP7), and so is not really a fully capable alternative. The best suggestion I can offer is to try working on the Jazz Grand (1), which, although based on the same main CG sample, is EQ'd for a slightly thicker-sounding mid-range. I'd also echo Morodiene's comments about the EQ curve. I, too, would be inclined to tame the highs and boost the lower mids. It might be best to do this when connected to your PA system, so that you tailor the sound to suit your main gigging gear.

A number of people have said it takes a little while to "acclimatize" to the new MPs, and you may find yourself becoming more accepting of the sound as you persevere. Good luck!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#2299850 - 07/08/14 12:08 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: voxpops]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1718
Originally Posted By: voxpops
...if you start with a very rich and full sound, you can subtract from it, but you can't effectively add what isn't there...it is more difficult to find a "meaty" AP sound...

Try layering 2 or even more APs.
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2299860 - 07/08/14 01:00 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
Abby pianoman, I have an mp11 and to get a fuller sound I put the lid closing on 1 and the brightness on -3 and turn the touch to heavy+ plus adjust the eq. You,ll have to adjust the sound to go with your speakers. Im using these on the concert grand which work great on ballads and jazz for more of a rock sounding piano I just switch the touch to heavy and turn up the brightness.

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#2299866 - 07/08/14 01:30 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: doremi]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: doremi
Originally Posted By: voxpops
...if you start with a very rich and full sound, you can subtract from it, but you can't effectively add what isn't there...it is more difficult to find a "meaty" AP sound...

Try layering 2 or even more APs.


According to Kawai James in an earlier thread:

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Regarding the MP11's sections functionality, you are correct - I'm afraid it is not possible to layer two acoustic pianos together.

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#2299867 - 07/08/14 01:33 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Hi Piano Mike. What speakers do you use?
And Ando, can you layer multiple APs on MP11?


Edited by Abby Pianoman (07/08/14 01:34 PM)

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#2299869 - 07/08/14 01:39 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Abby Pianoman
Hi Piano Mike. What speakers do you use?
And Ando, can you layer multiple APs on MP11?


According to James (he's the guy who writes the user manuals for these things), it's not possible to layer multiple APs on the MP11. Sorry that's not the news you wanted.

It sounds like you have really turned over every stone looking for the solution to your tone problem. Maybe the Kawai tone isn't the one for you. Since you have lots of people showing interest in your MP11 when you are gigging, maybe you can find a buyer for it - then you can return to Yamaha or maybe Roland and find something more to your liking there. Best of luck in your search.

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#2299870 - 07/08/14 01:43 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
I also want to thank you all for the prompt and helpful replies. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. It will save me weeks of trial and error. I leave my Piano in the car on workdays and only drag it to my first floor apartment on my day off (no elevator). Today. Got it all set up in my living room now. And tomorrow will try all your tips on my PA System.

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#2299873 - 07/08/14 01:52 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11390
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Abby Pianoman
I also want to thank you all for the prompt and helpful replies. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. It will save me weeks of trial and error. I leave my Piano in the car on workdays and only drag it to my first floor apartment on my day off (no elevator). Today. Got it all set up in my living room now. And tomorrow will try all your tips on my PA System.


I'm sure with all the tweaking capabilities you'll be able to get something to work, and since it sounds great in your headphones, it's not the DP that's the problem, just in combination with your speakers.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2299874 - 07/08/14 01:52 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Ando. My dealer said he won't take it back. I tried the MP7 first for 2 weeks. Not many people here would buy the MP11 due to budget problems and the weight. He ordered rhis specifically for me and warned me in advance that he won't change it. Probably because it's harder to resell. Most people would probably go for the Mp7. And I really love this Piano. Sooner or later, wirh all the advice I'm getting from you guys, I will hit the sweet spot.

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#2299888 - 07/08/14 02:25 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Morodiene]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Abby Pianoman
I also want to thank you all for the prompt and helpful replies. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. It will save me weeks of trial and error. I leave my Piano in the car on workdays and only drag it to my first floor apartment on my day off (no elevator). Today. Got it all set up in my living room now. And tomorrow will try all your tips on my PA System.


I'm sure with all the tweaking capabilities you'll be able to get something to work, and since it sounds great in your headphones, it's not the DP that's the problem, just in combination with your speakers.


I didn't read Abby's posts that way. I read it as the headphones being better than the PA, but still not satisfying and too thin.

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#2299892 - 07/08/14 02:33 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3498
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Abby Pianoman
Ando. My dealer said he won't take it back. I tried the MP7 first for 2 weeks. Not many people here would buy the MP11 due to budget problems and the weight. He ordered rhis specifically for me and warned me in advance that he won't change it. Probably because it's harder to resell. Most people would probably go for the Mp7. And I really love this Piano. Sooner or later, wirh all the advice I'm getting from you guys, I will hit the sweet spot.


I understand the dealer won't take it back, but you did post this:
Quote:
I get people walking up to the stage commenting on how great it looks and asking about price and where to acquire one


So I don't think it's impossible that you could sell it - even if the market appeal is limited. You bought one! There must be others. You've tried hard to make it work (probably tried a thousand adjustments.) I just get the feeling there is a basic lack of "love" for the tone of this piano. You might have to break up and find a new love. It happens in life. By all means, keep trying, but if you can't make it work don't feel too bad, just look for something that suits you better. Best of luck!

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#2299940 - 07/08/14 05:33 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1718
Too bad that the MP11 with its 'sections' approach does not allow the layering of APs. I believe the MP7 with the different 'zones' approach does allow the layering of APs.
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2299943 - 07/08/14 05:42 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Ando. Most of the people admiring and asking about acquiring one are English and German Tourists.
They are not going to buy any Piano from me. I perform for a Hotel chain here . I'll eventually get the sound I'm looking for. I emphasized various times in my post that I really love the Piano. It is a classy piece of work. The action is phenomenal. I have never had a DP with such action. I've looked at the CP4 and RD800 pictures and videos before settling on the Kawais. The cheap plastic of the others didn't appeal much to me. I'll get this thing right sooner or later. I have so far been doing battle only with the Concert Grand. I'll shift my attention to the others now.

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#2299944 - 07/08/14 05:46 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
BTW. I followed Piano Mike's advice and set lid opening to 1 and the touch to heavy. Seems to help somewhat.

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#2299947 - 07/08/14 05:48 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
lophiomys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 86
Loc: Austria, EU
Abby Pianoman,

IMHO you should try to have another word with your dealer. You seem to be a good customer, whom he is risking to loose. Otherwise you could try a specialized Yamaha dealer for an exchange to an CP4 or something similar.
One of those dealers actually might take their job seriously and care for the customer's needs and do find another customer for that MP11.

I have my own gripes with the Concert Grand sound in my MP7, IMO it does not sound good in a mono setup and does need a proper stereo setup. Playing around with the EQ and the virtual technician didn't help me either, to the extent I wanted. To me, it was turning off all effects, cutting off high frequencies in the EQ and mellowing the hammers. And still I am not completely happy. Sorry, I know, that this is not helpful to you. But IMO there is "something", which might disturb some people. Hopefully Kawai is offering an alternative CG sample with the next FW update?

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#2299951 - 07/08/14 05:55 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
I've also cut down on the Hi-Gain, added a bit more mids, as proposed by Morodienne and Piano Mike, set the lid opening to 2, and the touch to heavy. Things are slowly improving.

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#2299952 - 07/08/14 05:56 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
And Hammer delay to 3

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#2299956 - 07/08/14 06:04 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Mind you, I am doing all this on high quality Headphones. The truth in the soup will probably be more evident when I hook it up to my PA System tomorrow. Will keep you all posted and maybe have another chat with my dealer. I won't go into the booming on F3 today. Have lowered damper resonance to 2. My post today is more about getting the global sound right.

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#2299979 - 07/08/14 06:52 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1727
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
You're not alone in your aversion toward the sound of the Kawai piano samples.

I love Kawai acoustic pianos but digitals-not so much.

In spite of all the other huge positives that go with their DPs- action, build quality and price point- the core sound of their piano samples, I'm simply not crazy about. I find them generally harsh on the top end.

I went through the same thing you're going through with the Roland RD-700GX. I was doing edits on my own and as well as getting tips to improve the sound via editing from other 700GX owners. I changed speakers. I used it on gigs. I played it for hours trying to like it, all the while, futzing and doing tweaks to the sound. In the end I gave up on it. I traded it back in for the Yamaha CP300. I drove my sales guy nuts at W. LA Music , especially since he was giving me great pro pricing on it.

I hesitated on the CP-300 because of the obvious reason - the weight. But I remember pulling it out of the box in my studio, putting it on the stand and plugging into my Mackie VLZ mixer and EV SXA360 speakers that I was using at the time. I went to voice #2, the Mellow Grand, and it was an instantaneous - YES , this is right !

I think most of the long time buyers on this forum have bought something thinking it was going to be *it*. But after getting it home or playing a couple of gigs with it, it simply isn't working for them. Nothing to feel guilty about. You're listening, you care and you're picky.

There are trade offs with every brand and model. No matter what you get, it's never going to give you the real experience that an acoustic does. The main goal is to have something you personally can live with and feel good about playing for a few years.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


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#2299991 - 07/08/14 07:21 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
Abbypianoman, I,m using my mp 11 for practice only so I,m running through a couple of cm 30 cube speakers from roland. It actually sounds a lot cleaner and more piano like than on my EV 360 sxa speakers.I also have a roland gx with the super natural piano chip in it and it also sounds better on the roland speakers. That being said the Kawai sounds better than the Roland on those speakers. I think if I daisie chained a bunch of cubed speakers together it would sound awesome.What type P.A. speakers are you running the kawai through? Excuse the lines ,don,t know where they came from.

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#2300027 - 07/08/14 10:29 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Pianomike. I'm using 2 JBL EON 1500 passive Speakers
Connected to a Yamaha EMX 5000 Powered mixer. I took your advice and lowered the Topboard to 1. I also raised
Low EQ to 10, Hi Eq to -3, MID 1 to +3, Mid 2 also +3.
Touch: Heavy, Voicing: Dynamic, Hammer delay:2, String Resonance:8, Damper Resonance:3, Damper noise:5, Reverb : Concert Hall. Depth 32, Time 3010ms.
EFX: Autopan, Type: Classic, Depth:24, Speed 0.79 Hz.
EFX Low Eq 0, High Eq 5.
Key off eff: 5, Fallback Noise 5. The rest are the normal factory settings.
Playing around with Hammer delay brings out positively surprising results.

I think it is slowly getting better. I will probably have to raise or lower Reverb, Fallback noise etc tomorrow on my Pa System. I will be doing a Sound check for at least a couple of hours tomorrow Will post the results.


Edited by Abby Pianoman (07/09/14 07:20 AM)

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#2300037 - 07/08/14 10:48 PM Re: Kawai MP11. Can't get sound right [Re: Abby Pianoman]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Dave Ferris. I had the predecessor of the CP-300 for almost 20 years. A Yamaha Clavinova PF 100E. It had 10 Sounds. 4 Pianos and some other silly Sounds. It was truly a Plug-n-Play instrument. It had 3 EQ Sliders, One good AP ( Piano 1),
One good EP ( EP 1). The other Pianos as well as the 6 other sounds were crap. But that's all a Pianist needs. ONE good AP sound and ONE good EP sound.

The velocity sensors started acting funny. You touch a note and BOOM. I donated it to a School and promised to try and repair it when I have the time. I'm gigging 6 nights a week for the next 6 months and only come home to eat, sleep,a few hours of Family time and then it's time to get ready for the next gig. I WILL make this MP11 sound good. Even if it's the last thing I do.


Edited by Abby Pianoman (07/08/14 11:04 PM)

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
My fingers know what my brain has forgotten
by PatrickBl
Yesterday at 08:30 PM
Fully-Rebuilt Pianos Versus New Pianos
by Paul678
Yesterday at 08:12 PM
How do you identify the melody on a sheet of music?
by Alex1
Yesterday at 07:38 PM
Fugue in b Minor
by Ritzycat
Yesterday at 05:34 PM
Missing Pedal rods for Bramburg (1890-ish?)
by Paul678
Yesterday at 04:22 PM
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