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#2300212 - 07/09/14 11:10 AM Beethoven's Piano Exercises
phantomFive Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 2094
Loc: California
You might like to see this.....

Beethoven had a plan to make a technique book, although he never completed it. Based on these, what sorts of things do you think he valued in a pianist? (I found these in Great Pianists and Their Technique).







Edited by phantomFive (07/09/14 02:43 PM)
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"I was obliged to work hard; whoever works equally hard will succeed equally well." -Bach

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#2300412 - 07/09/14 08:22 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 5032
Loc: USA
It makes me wonder. Did the classical pianists know anything about rotation? They were taught to play with the fingers while maintaining a still hand and wrist. The must have gotten loads of injuries, especially playing Beethoven.

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#2300447 - 07/09/14 09:24 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
Fiona0424 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/14
Posts: 217
He valued silence. Silence needs to be treated with importance too. There can be silence that is smooth and dying, silence that builds tension, silence that creates a valley between two phrases, and so much more! The possibilities are endless with music!
_________________________
*Fiona*

"If music be food of love, play on!"
P.S. I am in love with Beethoven, infatuated with Liszt, and crazy about Chopin!
And when he behaves, Rachmaninoff is my darling! ;p

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#2300449 - 07/09/14 09:28 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: Fiona0424]
phantomFive Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 2094
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Fiona0424
He valued silence. Silence needs to be treated with importance too. There can be silence that is smooth and dying, silence that builds tension, silence that creates a valley between two phrases, and so much more! The possibilities are endless with music!

I think in that first exercise, those 'empty' measures are repeat signs, not rests (if that's what you are referring to). Good point, though
_________________________
"I was obliged to work hard; whoever works equally hard will succeed equally well." -Bach

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#2300531 - 07/10/14 01:11 AM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: Fiona0424]
IstvánE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 84
Originally Posted By: Fiona0424
He valued silence. Silence needs to be treated with importance too. There can be silence that is smooth and dying, silence that builds tension, silence that creates a valley between two phrases, and so much more! The possibilities are endless with music!


Lots of musician mumbo jumbo, but yes, you are correct; however the way you communicate is not accurate to how one should actually color silence. The fact of the matter is, there is only one way to "play" a rest. So in order to give silence a desired effect, it must be done with the played music prior to the rest.

The reason I'm clarifying this is because I'm hoping you're not suggesting there are multiple ways to play silence.

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#2300565 - 07/10/14 03:24 AM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: IstvánE]
phantomFive Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 2094
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: IstvánE
Originally Posted By: Fiona0424
He valued silence. Silence needs to be treated with importance too. There can be silence that is smooth and dying, silence that builds tension, silence that creates a valley between two phrases, and so much more! The possibilities are endless with music!


Lots of musician mumbo jumbo, but yes, you are correct; however the way you communicate is not accurate to how one should actually color silence. The fact of the matter is, there is only one way to "play" a rest. So in order to give silence a desired effect, it must be done with the played music prior to the rest.

The reason I'm clarifying this is because I'm hoping you're not suggesting there are multiple ways to play silence.

During a rest, try turning your head slightly to the audience, smiling slyly, then turning back and continuing to play. See how that works.

Or raise both your hands high in the air, then bring them crashing down when the music begins again.
_________________________
"I was obliged to work hard; whoever works equally hard will succeed equally well." -Bach

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#2300658 - 07/10/14 10:21 AM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: IstvánE]
Atrys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 990
Originally Posted By: IstvánE

The reason I'm clarifying this is because I'm hoping you're not suggesting there are multiple ways to play silence.

+1 for reason.
_________________________
"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson

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#2300727 - 07/10/14 01:02 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
Daffodil123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/13/14
Posts: 16
Beethoven was familiar with Cramer's exercises, and at least some of them seem all about rotation. Or is that just the way I was taught them? They would be really wooden otherwise.

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#2300853 - 07/10/14 06:20 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2679
Loc: Netherlands
He did write etudes, he just named them variations in c and didn't publish them, btw most development-sections in the (esp. earlier) sonatas can be regarded as etudes, Cramer learned a lot from these passages.
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Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Ravel miroirs

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#2300869 - 07/10/14 06:55 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: JoelW]
Art_Vandelay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/14
Posts: 127
Loc: Stillwater, OK
Originally Posted By: JoelW
It makes me wonder. Did the classical pianists know anything about rotation? They were taught to play with the fingers while maintaining a still hand and wrist. The must have gotten loads of injuries, especially playing Beethoven.
.

There's no way you'd make it through the Pathétique 1st movement without forearm rotation. I suspect any pianist capable of playing Beethoven well was using this technique, whether they realized it or not.
_________________________
"If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis."

"If life gives you lemonade, make lemons. Life'll be all like whaaaaaat?" - Phil Dunphy

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#2301713 - 07/13/14 12:59 AM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
phantomFive Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 2094
Loc: California
The thing that stands out to me about these exercises is how many of them are not designed for technique, but rather to improve musicality
_________________________
"I was obliged to work hard; whoever works equally hard will succeed equally well." -Bach

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#2302204 - 07/14/14 12:39 PM Re: Beethoven's Piano Exercises [Re: phantomFive]
neuralfirings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 219
Keep in mind, the pianos Beethoven played on had MUCH lighter keys. Some keys were even curved on the sides, making octave glissandos a breeze to play. It's no wonder that Beethoven constantly broke strings. Even I would be worried about breaking strings on those types of pianos (never even entered my mind as a possibility on modern day pianos).
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Working on Chopin E Minor Concerto (2nd Mvt), Bach C Minor Fugue (WTC I), and others.

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