Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
151 registered (anamnesis, Batuhan, ajames, alfredo capurso, Bassano, 30 invisible), 1507 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2300219 - 07/09/14 11:31 AM 5mm keydip
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
I just replaced the moth eaten front key punchings with newish ones that are too fat (that's all I had) and I suddenly find myself with a working 5mm keydip! Is it as easy as that?

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention 2015 Denver
PTG Convention July 15 to 18 Denver
#2300228 - 07/09/14 12:02 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2672
Loc: Olympia, WA
yes
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2300229 - 07/09/14 12:05 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
So with $12 worth of punchings I've now got a kind-of Viennese 1780's touch? If a little heavier?

Top
#2300231 - 07/09/14 12:09 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22282
Loc: Oakland
If the rest of the action is designed for it. If you reduce the key dip, you may not have any escapement.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2300260 - 07/09/14 01:31 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
Well, yea, it's working.

Top
#2300414 - 07/09/14 08:22 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 779
Loc: Hong Kong
What's blow distance? The blow distance may around 25mm with this keydip. You have to play harder to make loud enough. So you feel its heavier.
_________________________
Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

Top
#2300470 - 07/09/14 10:27 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2672
Loc: Olympia, WA
If the dip is shallow enough you don't need escapement: the hammer won't quite make it all the way to the strings. A 5mm keydip might only move the hammer 30-35 mm. I would think there'd be some bobbling hammer issues though...
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2300479 - 07/09/14 10:44 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22282
Loc: Oakland
And the dampers may not clear the strings, if they lift at all.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2300509 - 07/10/14 12:14 AM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2724
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
And then the sostenuto wont work either.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2300546 - 07/10/14 01:52 AM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
We're talking about my 1830/40 upright here. I still can't quite get my head round the fact it seems to work fine with the keydip of a clavichord. The punchings are about 6mm - I've sent off for 4mm ones instead. Quite what the extra keydip will be for, I'm not sure.

Top
#2300559 - 07/10/14 02:52 AM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Chris Leslie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 867
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
If the front punching were moth eaten, then the balance rails punchings may also be about disintegrated. If the balance rail punchings are replaced then that will also increase the key dip.
_________________________
Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

Top
#2300560 - 07/10/14 02:57 AM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
8-9 mm key dip seem to be a minimum.
I have an original Pleyel jauge from 1905 at 9 mmm
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2300735 - 07/10/14 01:28 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: Chris Leslie]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Chris Leslie
If the front punching were moth eaten, then the balance rails punchings may also be about disintegrated. If the balance rail punchings are replaced then that will also increase the key dip.
Thanks for that but they're paper!

Top
#2301193 - 07/11/14 04:12 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
bellspiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 547
Loc: Boston, MA
So the original balance pin felts are gone completely? This is not good. It would be hard to make sense of any regulation measurements in that case.
_________________________
Dorrie Bell
retired piano technician
Boston, MA

Top
#2301198 - 07/11/14 04:24 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
I don't think there ever was felt there.

Top
#2301207 - 07/11/14 05:03 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
bellspiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 547
Loc: Boston, MA
On this point our opinions differ.
_________________________
Dorrie Bell
retired piano technician
Boston, MA

Top
#2301233 - 07/11/14 06:22 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Chris Leslie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 867
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Does this piano have a back stop rail for the key sticks? If so, and it hasn't been fiddled with or rotted away, then that may help to determine the key dip.
_________________________
Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

Top
#2301294 - 07/11/14 08:44 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: chopin_r_us]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Before the moth there was some felt, never seen a piano without.
And never seen one with 5 mm keydip, may be 7 mm for a very short stroke.

You may have about 3 mm of the pin in the mortise.
You may have an acceptable thin space between the back of the keys and the case part. the wood discoloration on the blocks may be show where the key height was .
With very low keyboard I think the sharps must be very high against the white keys when both are down.

You may need to unscrew a lot the "capstan" (that does not mean much if the hammer rail is bowed or the hammers are farther from the strings at rest than they should.

You can take a bubble jauge and see at what point the keys are level. I think they are possibly level at mid blow.

Any balance punching was probably very thin, 0.9 mm at the max.

test with carboard paper punchings to see if the touch is better.

It is too noisy if there is no balance punching.

Look under the keyframe for shims, so in case the punching you install are still too thick you can lower by subtracting some ( under the balance rail)


What counts is that the jack is in a good position with the key at full dip, and that the dip is not really far of even old standards

You may like 5 mm as it strengthen the touch and tone but rise the keys a little and test for a more supple playing.




Edited by Olek (07/12/14 06:20 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2301297 - 07/11/14 08:47 PM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: Chris Leslie]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Chris Leslie
Does this piano have a back stop rail for the key sticks? If so, and it hasn't been fiddled with or rotted away, then that may help to determine the key dip.


Not so much Chris without the good key level.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2301356 - 07/12/14 01:12 AM Re: 5mm keydip [Re: bellspiano]
chopin_r_us Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: bellspiano
On this point our opinions differ.
There would be some tiny degraded bits left if that was so - there's nothing.

Thanks folks for all your help. I can't do anything till my new front punchings arrive from the US then I'm off on holiday for 6 weeks!

The actual point of all this is how tired I've grown from playing on the modern keydip. I can't face it much more, it's so clumsy.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Non-classical repertoire suggestions
by TwoSnowflakes
03/31/15 06:10 PM
Problem with evenness in scales
by CowNorris
03/31/15 04:44 PM
For when you've had it with music theory....
by JohnSprung
03/31/15 04:10 PM
Chopin's op ph Nocturne 20 C#min, bar 15 triplets
by beechcraft409
03/31/15 02:41 PM
creaking sound from damper pedal mechanism...
by Entheo
03/31/15 02:09 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,724 Registered Members
43 Forums
162,887 Topics
2,390,854 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission