Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Damper Regulation difficulty

So, you are saying: you have no experience setting up a piano with a proper half-pedal so that it works consistently throughout the entire piano (i.e., without the use of early section timings)?

How do you regulate your half pedal, BDB?

I don't agree. New Steinways are completely responsive to "half-pedaling" technique. I have very little experience with new Yamahas, so I cannot comment on them.

Have you read this topic all the way through, Mr. A443?

In fact, I have posted detailed instructions for regulating dampers several times. You could do a search for them.

If you feel you can do better, you should post your methods.

You don't agree, because you don't understand how the system works. The system inside the piano doesn't allow for a fine level of regulation to allow for accurate 1/2 pedalling.

If you don't agree, go to a Steinway dealer and make a recording to prove me wrong. Or take any of your 3 Steinways at home, and prove me wrong.

Actually, he is stating a hypothetical situation employing a damper system which uses damper felts which are simply flat blocks of felt. (Very old school)

I believe it is the difference in design between the flat felts and the tapered 'V' felts which enables the use of the half-pedal technique. I'm not so sure that the travel distance or lift engagement timing, across the full range of the keyboard, has much to do with the resulting tonal effect of the technique. If one section of dampers lifts sooner than others, it negates how a pianist expects the damper pedal to perform.

You believe there is credibility in telling a pianist what he can, or cannot do, on a piano?

Truly amazing.

Exactly: you have now clearly illustrated you have no idea how the system functions. Which is OK; you are not a piano technician. But I would like to see/hear YOU actually use half pedal technique, because based on your writing, I don't think you actually know what it is (i.e., the pianos you play on, don't typically do it).

I believe you are not using 1/2 pedal technique; you are doing something different. But, OK then, show me! No more talk Marty, please show me the 1/2 pedal technique that you can do on your Steinway. For once, please, prove me wrong on something.

Please, O Great One, explain why the damper felts differ across the range of a piano?

(Yes, I know your answer will be "because you don't understand.")

BTW - A new thread espousing your concept of damper theory might be of interest to all.

Prove me wrong.

You are a professional pianist, right? This should be easy for you. Just a simple demonstration...

Ah yes, this from the person who won't indicate any professional credentials or experience whatsoever.

I am willing to demonstrate anything about piano technology: how to do things, how things should sound, etc.! That is what matters, right?

If you, and some of the others, continue to insist that you must know my name, birthday, SSN, physical mailing addresses, degrees, GPAs, professional qualifications, work experience, etc. to qualify the information that I write and demonstrate about piano technology, then I will continue to state: learn to think for yourselves and stop relying on marketing to tell you what you should think.

I'll demonstrate anything you want, Marty. I'm going to, again, ask you to do the same. Since you have been so adamant that you are right, and everyone else is always wrong, please demonstrate that you can back-up what you have said that you can do on your Steinway. You should know well how your own piano works, right? Please make a video recording demonstrating clearly how 1/2 pedal is done on your pianos.

What possible reason could you come up with for not doing that? Seriously, if you are a professional pianist, this should be very easy for you. Why the hesitation?

Perhaps a discussion on what the people think the half damper pedal "should do" would be more productive.

Or, perhaps a definition of exactly what half damper pedal "is."

All of the professional/concert pianists I have spoken with about 1/2 pedal have slightly different concepts of what it actually is, how to do it, or what to tell a piano technician to do to get what they want. The confusion comes from the subtle changes that have occurred with piano design and setup over the years. When they get to a piano that actually works, there is no more confusion.

I am only familiar with the definition of half pedaling that I quoted earlier by Anton Rubinstein. As was pointed out previously, that was a long time ago, and pianos have changed since then.

I am also familiar with flutter pedaling which I've always thought of as different from half pedaling. That being said, I frequently use flutter pedaling when I am unable to half pedal, as I've found it is the closest thing.

What other definitions of "half pedaling" are people familiar with? I'm not asking this to start an argument on "what is correct" - I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the various opinions.

http://www.cs.ioc.ee/~stulov/nantes2.pdf

http://www.abrsm.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=47244&page=1

http://jeffreychappell.com/pedaling.php

Exactly: this is absolutely what happens when half pedal doesn't work, and why pianists often have slightly different definitions of what half pedal actually is!!! Excellent observational experience by the OP.

Instead of long links, which are indeed interesting, could posters maybe instead summarise what it is that they think half pedal is in their own words?

My definition of half pedal: the distance, at the pedal, between where the weight of the dampers begin to decrease against the strings until the moment before the felts are completely off the strings. The amount of half pedal on any given piano is a function of how soft (i.e., smoochy) the felts are. To increase/extend the audible effects of the half pedal's function, early damper timing in the bass and/or treble can be employed. NOTE: early damper timing are helpful in evening out the resonance, but it does comes at a cost of even articulation in all of the registers and doesn't actually function in the same way in terms of the damping effects.

This is very interesting. However, it only analyzes one frequency. The important comparison would be the simultaneous effect of C-1 to C-4.