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#2305766 - 07/23/14 06:31 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1386
Loc: The Netherlands
If you compare Rickster to Gestapo (because that's what it implies) you are completely out of your mind and in my humble opinion are just begging for a permanent ban. INCREDIBLE..
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Schimmel 116 S ..

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#2305791 - 07/23/14 08:11 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8565
Loc: Georgia, USA
For those of you who do not know what the forum rules and regulations are, please read; for those who need reminding, please read. Piano World Rules and Regulations

Again, not that I feel the need to defend myself as a volunteer moderator on PW, or justify my actions as moderator, I would like to comment on some of the comments made in this thread thus far…

Thanks to those who have come to my defense and supported my decision (whether they agreed with me or not) in this particular matter; to those who continue to gripe and complain about my decision to remove the thread in question, and criticize me as moderator, you should be thankful that you are allowed to gripe and complain about my decision openly on the forum.

Next, I know for a fact there are members here who do not like me, period. But, that’s okay… the lyrics to one of my original blues tunes says “I learned a long time ago that everybody ain’t your friend”. So, that’s a given. smile

Personally, I think the Piano World forums run pretty smoothly and provide lots of valuable information, as well as a lot fun and entertainment to the internet public in general and the piano industry in particular. However, remember, this not a democratic forum and there are times when Frank B or the moderators have to make a decision they deem necessary in order to keep things somewhat civil and running smoothly; and that inevitably makes someone mad or upset. Such is life, I suppose.

Those who do not like the way things are done here on the Piano World forums, in the words of the late, great Ray Charles… “Hit the road Jack”. laugh

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2305799 - 07/23/14 08:39 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
BrianDX Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 754
Loc: Lewes DE
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Originally Posted By: AJF
I don't like how these forums are moderated. No offense to any of the moderators, I just think the moderators are unnecessary and too much is left to their own subjective judgement. We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.
I'm a member of a few forums where the only role of the moderator is to ban members who break the rules. The rules are CLEARLY stated and all new members are required to read them. If they break the rules their membership and right to post is revoked. Simple. No need for subjective judgement calls. The rules are the rules and that's that.
I've read a lot of threads here that have been locked JUST when things, IMO, started to get somewhere (ie: thought provoking).
So what if things get a little heated? We're humans, not ostriches who need to find a hole at the first sign of conflict. We have opinions. Sometimes we passionately disagree. Who cares? It's why forums are stimulating to read, as well as informative and thought provoking. Yeah I know, if I don't like how things are done here I'm welcome to go elsewhere. But I DO like it here. I just don't like the whole Gestapo moderator thing. This is the internet--it's hardly even real life.


100% Agreed.

I prefer the old un-moderated Newsgroups. People
take care of themselves, and police themselves. And
useful threads don't get deleted. 4-letter words are how
humans communicate in the English language, why delete them?

Heated disagreements are a sign of passion and love
for the subject, in this case a common love of the piano.
We are not going to agree on everything, so why try to stamp out arguments if they are fruitful? Sometimes breaking the status quo is a GOOD thing!

I 100% disagree. I don't think a lot of folks here have any idea how bad things have gotten on some unregulated forums. Heated disagreements I don't mind; I don't think these types of discussions are usually regulated by the moderators. But when thing get nasty and personal NO good comes from that. Normally the original intent of the OP is completely lost.
_________________________
Groucho Marx: "Now we're getting somewhere"
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F .
Current: Schein - Allemande | Faber - Vivace, Lunar Eclipse

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#2305820 - 07/23/14 09:18 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rank Piano Amateur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1786
Piano World is a private forum, not a governmental one. There are no free speech rights on a private forum, and the owners of the forum are entitled to set and enforce the rules as they see fit.

Having said that, the moderators here are more than tolerant. While I agree that some of the slanging matches are entertaining for those of us who observe them, they can get to a point where their very existence (as well as content) reflects badly on everyone who participates. It seems to me that the moderators do their best to balance the various interests involved. I might well get upset with the moderators if I felt that they were themselves not acting even-handedly, but at least so far I have no reason to believe that they are.

Having said that, even if I felt that the moderators were acting inappropriately, I would have NO RIGHTS with respect to this, except to stop reading or posting on the thread.

And finally, having said all of this, and as someone whose father's extended family was wiped out in the Holocaust, I find it outrageous that anyone here would compare anyone else here to a member of the Gestapo.

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#2305824 - 07/23/14 09:24 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1386
Loc: The Netherlands
+much
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Schimmel 116 S ..

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#2305840 - 07/23/14 10:02 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1766
Loc: Conway, AR USA
In certain cases, Moderator does a service to everyone when deleting a thread altogether. Once recognized, embarrassing remarks can be bad enough. To enshrine these forever is far worse.

(By the way, thanks, Rick, for sending that thread wherein I wrote ****** and ****** to the bats and the moles.)


"Whosoever keeps his mouth shut when he realizes that he is wrong is wise and he who holds the mouth even if he is right is married." - Author unknown
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com/

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#2305848 - 07/23/14 10:14 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2189
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Rickster didn't think the postings were positive for PW. Making that decision is his VOLUNTEER job. I respect that and appreciate that we can also complain about it.

The GESTAPO comment is not warranted. Sure you have a right to make that statement-but given the way it has been taken-do you really want to express yourself that way?


Edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT (07/23/14 10:14 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2305881 - 07/23/14 11:01 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: Toronto
Geez, I take back the word Gestapo. I love how people choose to zero in on ONE inappropriately chosen word and make that their focal point rather than actually GETTING the point of the post. No wonder these threads all always getting derailed.
You know what? I take it back. Keep your moderators. There are obviously enough overly sensitive people here to warrant keeping things comfy-cozy for everyone.


Edited by AJF (07/23/14 11:10 AM)

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#2305898 - 07/23/14 11:36 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 687
Well, ultimately, you cannot please everyone.

Piano World is still AWESOME!

grin thumb

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#2305955 - 07/23/14 01:10 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8565
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Well, ultimately, you cannot please everyone.

Ricky Nelson, "Garden Party" 1972. smile
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2306017 - 07/23/14 03:15 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: AJF
We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.

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#2306020 - 07/23/14 03:21 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: the nosy ape]
iObsessed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 80
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: the nosy ape

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.


And I'm actually a teen, albeit an arguably nerdy one (in piano, as I would like to consider myself), who uses this site! But your assertion that this is a family site does not resonate with me...it is just this content and depth of content into pianos that would be rather over many kids' heads. Like a nine year old would scratch his head at (especially) the Piano Technicians' Forum.


Edited by iObsessed (07/23/14 03:22 PM)

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#2306063 - 07/23/14 04:50 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: the nosy ape]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: the nosy ape
Originally Posted By: AJF
We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.


Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.

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#2306172 - 07/23/14 08:59 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 687
Originally Posted By: AJF

Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.



Agreed. Pre-teens use plenty of 4-letter words, and
watch plenty of adult videos online.

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#2306183 - 07/23/14 09:24 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
iObsessed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 80
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Agreed. Pre-teens use plenty of 4-letter words


Like what? (notice word length)

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#2306187 - 07/23/14 09:36 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Leicester, UK
Originally Posted By: Rank Piano Amateur
as someone whose father's extended family was wiped out in the Holocaust, I find it outrageous that anyone here would compare anyone else here to a member of the Gestapo.


I hear you and agree ...

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#2306225 - 07/23/14 11:20 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: Toronto
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)

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#2306232 - 07/23/14 11:44 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
PaintedPostDave Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 550
Loc: Upstate New York
Careful monitoring is a subtle, sometimes not totally effective, means of discouraging cheap shots, negative comments, childish bickering, self promotion and soap box declarations. Because of it, IMHO, PW is often interesting, informative and sometimes entertaining.
Take a moment and scan the comments section associated with a story on, say, the ABC News website. I hope PW never degenerates to that level and with continued monitoring of the kind Rick provides I am confident that it never will.
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

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#2306351 - 07/24/14 08:48 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: AJF
Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.

I have read posts on PW that shocked and offended me, much less my kids. Thankfully, such posts are usually deleted by the moderators in short order. I do not wish to have to monitor my kids when they are reading PW.

My main concern, when it comes to my own children, is that they not get a warped impression of what is acceptable to say to another person. There is plenty of nastiness that goes on all over the internet. It eases my concern when I see moderators try to put a cap on that nastiness.

And, of course, trying to make moderation more objective would be a futile endeavor. Making it more objective means making very specific rules. The number of rules that would have to be published to bring noticeably more objectivity would probably be large. Now you would have the situation that there would be too many rules for even the moderators to keep track of. And, ironically, even if you were to implement such a system of inflexible rules, you end up with something that much more resembles a police state than what we have now.

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#2306422 - 07/24/14 11:21 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
PhilipInChina Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1043
Loc: China
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

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#2306602 - 07/24/14 04:41 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: AJF
... There are obviously enough overly sensitive people here to warrant keeping things comfy-cozy for everyone.


Oh sweet truth! smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2306665 - 07/24/14 07:03 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: PhilipInChina]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.


Umm. Find what difficult to believe? That someone made a reference to something that they didn't fully understand the definition of? I met many Americans who don't even know the Capitol city of Canada or our prime minister. We're the second biggest country in the world and their closest neighbour to the north. Heck I've met Americans who don't know the Capitol city of the United States. And you find it surprising that someone doesn't know the name of the Nazi secret police from world war 2 which happened 70 years ago?
You must have very well educated friends....

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#2306696 - 07/24/14 08:17 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Well, there are arguments that Toronto is really the capitol of Canada and that the same honour goes to NYC in the USA.

smile
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306699 - 07/24/14 08:22 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: Toronto
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)

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#2306719 - 07/24/14 09:39 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 595
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.


Umm. Find what difficult to believe? That someone made a reference to something that they didn't fully understand the definition of? I met many Americans who don't even know the Capitol city of Canada or our prime minister. We're the second biggest country in the world and their closest neighbour to the north. Heck I've met Americans who don't know the Capitol city of the United States. And you find it surprising that someone doesn't know the name of the Nazi secret police from world war 2 which happened 70 years ago?
You must have very well educated friends....

I heard on the radio yesterday that TSA agents have been rejecting District of Columbia drivers' licenses and telling passengers that if they don't have a "US" ID they need a passport!
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2306720 - 07/24/14 09:41 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 595
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)

Hehehe... I would have assumed "double double" meant you had to write the bill twice: once in English, and again en Français! wink
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2306722 - 07/24/14 09:46 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Aren't Congresspersons and Senators aliens by definition? They sure can seem to be totally alienated from reality.

Ergo ......
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306731 - 07/24/14 10:09 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 595
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)



Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


For what it's worth, the "we're smarter than they are" perspective is always a two-way street...
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2306738 - 07/24/14 10:49 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I shall refrain from any allusion to Rob Ford.

But, it is so tempting!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306770 - 07/25/14 12:12 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Retsacnal]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1496
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Retsacnal
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)



Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


For what it's worth, the "we're smarter than they are" perspective is always a two-way street...

Hey, we tried to make them citizens....I guess they liked the British too much
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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