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#2304228 - 07/19/14 11:23 PM Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted?
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 819
Was it because of the heated argument on there?

Why not just "freeze" the thread, so no one can
post on it anymore, but keep the thread so people
can still just read it?

frown

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(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#2304230 - 07/19/14 11:29 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hmmm - This is rather unusual.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2304259 - 07/20/14 02:06 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2056
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Hmmm - This is rather unusual.

As Paul678 sagely remarked, it's downhill all the way after a certain point.

My watchword is the best is yet to come, but one can only wonder about this forum after this and the unspeakable treatment of a respected rebuilder not so long ago.

PS Perhaps some legalistic issue necessitated the deletion of the thread. Who knows?

PPS Reason enough, Rickster (#2304324 below)


Edited by Withindale (07/20/14 10:36 AM)
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2304264 - 07/20/14 02:22 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
I was reading that page earlier, and when I tried to load page two the rendered page only had a message saying it couldn't be loaded or was corrupted (I forget exactly what it said). It did the same no matter how i tried to access page 2, and also if I tried to load all the posts in one page. If it was corrupted, then I'm not surprised that its been deleted. I've seen threads that were much more acrimonious that were left open (unless something on the second page went way overboard, and as Marty hinted, threads don't usually vanish, they just get locked).

Reading the OP reminded me of one of my college classmates. He was a mediocre BFA student, and a mediocre musician/thespian. He was interviewed after a show and was so giddy with his own "talent" that out of the blue he announced: "Shakespeare is overrated." Naturally, this was the only comment attributed to him in the paper and made a laughingstock out of him. Sometimes college students are so full of themselves that they think they can take down an institution based solely on their opinion. But he's not critiquing writers anymore...the last time I was home I bumped into him at the bank where he's working as a teller (we graduated in '93). I don't mean to belittle him--just making the point that college students are often full of themselves.

I was surprised that the thread got as much attention as it did. I'd sum up the first post like this: "old stuff doesn't perform as well as new stuff...duh."

And some of the follow up posts were valid:
  • new stuff can be improved (e.g. A brand new Mercedes can be turned into an AMG Hammer)
  • likewise, older things can be returned to their former glory, or to an even better state than new
and all of the above costs money (save letting a new thing deteriorate into an old thing)

_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2304324 - 07/20/14 09:03 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
I am the moderator who removed the thread…

Not that I owe anyone, except Frank Baxter and Ken Knapp, an explanation of why, as a courtesy to the OP of that thread and others I’ll tell you why…

When respected members/dealers/rebuilders here start attacking each other and calling each other liars and trying their best to discredit each other, it cheapens the integrity of this forum, in my view. I know the piano business is a tough, hard-knuckles, dog-eat-dog, incredibly competitive business, but Piano World is no place for dealers to do battle in public in front of the whole world and call each other liars.

I could have edited a bunch of comments in several posts, or even locked the thread, but I figured removing the thread was the best approach, especially since one of the individuals refused to edit his own post, after I asked him to.

So, there you have it…

The OP is welcome to start another thread with the same topic if they wish…

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2304336 - 07/20/14 10:29 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Rickster]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: Rickster
I am the moderator who removed the thread…

Not that I owe anyone, except Frank Baxter and Ken Knapp, an explanation of why, as a courtesy to the OP of that thread and others I’ll tell you why…


Thanks for the explanation, Rick. I encountered the error I mentioned above while at the drive in theater with my girls, waiting for the movie to start. I probably had page 1 loaded, and then tried to load the already deleted page two... (I often just pull out my phone and start from where I was). The "fun" must have started after I loaded page one, and hadn't yet tried to load page two, and so the thread was sort of pulled out from under me.

I love reading all the expert opinions on this site. I don't even mind if they disagree--it's just more to digest and learn from. It's sad when people start to bicker and squabble though (and I've been guilty of it myself a time or two). It's easy to get sucked in online and post something regrettable. On the surface, it may seem funny to watch people go at it online, or to even antagonize others, but it ruins the sense of community and drives people away.
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2304338 - 07/20/14 10:38 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Retsacnal
It's easy to get sucked in online and post something regrettable. On the surface, it may seem funny to watch people go at it online, or to even antagonize others, but it ruins the sense of community and drives people away.

My thoughts exactly. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2304359 - 07/20/14 11:08 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I'm probably one of the few who saw all of it. It did get pretty bad.

I'd like to support Rick in putting it away. Shouldn't have been left for people to read the meltdown.

I always take everything with a grain of salt online. I read much from many sources on acoustics. Always interested. Yes, definitely, if I ever have the money. I'll be visiting some rebuilders, one in particular, to see for myself.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2304388 - 07/20/14 12:23 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Rickster]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 819
Originally Posted By: Rickster
I am the moderator who removed the thread…

Not that I owe anyone, except Frank Baxter and Ken Knapp, an explanation of why, as a courtesy to the OP of that thread and others I’ll tell you why…

When respected members/dealers/rebuilders here start attacking each other and calling each other liars and trying their best to discredit each other, it cheapens the integrity of this forum, in my view. I know the piano business is a tough, hard-knuckles, dog-eat-dog, incredibly competitive business, but Piano World is no place for dealers to do battle in public in front of the whole world and call each other liars.

I could have edited a bunch of comments in several posts, or even locked the thread, but I figured removing the thread was the best approach, especially since one of the individuals refused to edit his own post, after I asked him to.

So, there you have it…

The OP is welcome to start another thread with the same topic if they wish…

Rick


Ok, fair enough Rick. I didn't realize you had
asked someone to edit a post.

However, deleting the entire thread without explanation was very confusing for those not directly involved in the conflict.

It's like being arrested without the cop telling you what the charges are, or what you did wrong! How can we avoid behaving badly in the future, if we don't know the errors of our ways?

Also, there was useful information in that thread, regardless of a few bad posts. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as they say.

May I make a suggestion? I know most people don't like others telling them how to do their jobs, but I would suggest locking the thread first, deleting the offending posts, and then posting a final message stating the reasons why the thread is being locked. This way, people understand why we are being reprimanded, and the useful information in the thread is still there for all to read and learn from.

My 0.02

Pianoworld is still awesome!

thumb



Edited by Paul678 (07/20/14 12:25 PM)

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#2304393 - 07/20/14 12:32 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2684
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I know of another forum where it is against the rules to even ask about a deleted post or thread.

I'm against deleting posts from a thread because it ends up making the thread incoherent and confusing.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#2304414 - 07/20/14 01:24 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Rickster]
PaintedPostDave Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 555
Loc: Upstate New York
FWIW, I support Rickster. thumb
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

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#2304419 - 07/20/14 01:47 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: malkin]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: malkin
I'm against deleting posts from a thread because it ends up making the thread incoherent and confusing.

When the particular posts are nothing but name calling and finger pointing, there is no value gained from those particular postings to the topic of the thread.

As many of you well know, I have been involved in these types of back and forth. I've been working on tempering my responses, but what was in that thread went past the bounds of any type of civility. Cruelty is hardly acceptable behavior.

I was finding the thread to be interesting and aside from the sidetrack, I thought it was of value. The comparison and understanding of different viewpoints always makes for interesting discussion, as long as it is not vindictive or abusive.

As I stated earlier, I was surprised by the deletion, rather than selective editing or being locked. However, Rick is our Moderator and it was purely his decision, as it should be. Please remember, we are all guests in this forum and there needs to be some standards set for all of us to express our opinions on the topic, rather than other members.

Yes, I know, I'm guilty as charged.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2304424 - 07/20/14 02:07 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14199
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
cheers to all and apologies to OP or anybody else who feels inconvenienced by all of this
Norbert


Edited by Rickster (07/20/14 03:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Inflammatory and continuation of feud between Norbert and Rod
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2304426 - 07/20/14 02:11 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1546
Loc: The Netherlands
I think Rickster does a terrific job in knowing when to intervene an when not, and also how to intervene. You can say a lot of things but not that this forum is over-moderated.
There was not that much in the thread (up till the moment I last read it) which is not already on the forum and Retsacnal summarizes it quite well.

I must say that sometimes I let myself being provoked into posting something I regret a minute or a day later. Luckily this forum has kind of a conscience wink



Edited by wimpiano (07/20/14 02:11 PM)
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ...

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#2304432 - 07/20/14 02:34 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: PaintedPostDave]
PhilipInChina Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1190
Loc: China
Originally Posted By: PaintedPostDave
FWIW, I support Rickster. thumb


+1
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

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#2304436 - 07/20/14 02:42 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: Paul678
...deleting the entire thread without explanation was very confusing for those not directly involved in the conflict.

It's like being arrested without the cop telling you what the charges are, or what you did wrong! How can we avoid behaving badly in the future, if we don't know the errors of our ways?

Also, there was useful information in that thread, regardless of a few bad posts. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as they say.


I understand how you feel. When I first started posting, I'd ask a lot of questions. Sometimes arguments would ensue between those who answered and the post would get derailed by infighting. At the same time, I'd be getting some valid information. I remember once or twice trying to defuse arguments (it didn't really work). I was dismayed when the thread would get locked. But...

Originally Posted By: Paul678
May I make a suggestion? I know most people don't like others telling them how to do their jobs, but I would suggest locking the thread first, deleting the offending posts, and then posting a final message stating the reasons why the thread is being locked. This way, people understand why we are being reprimanded, and the useful information in the thread is still there for all to read and learn from.


...at the same time, the moderators are volunteers and shouldn't have to waste a lot of time editing people's posts, and, frankly, babysitting. I used to maintain and moderate a forum for my High School many years ago (we've since moved into Classmates.com and then on to Facebook). I also used UBB, and it was pretty clunky software (at least then). It was absolutely easiest to just delete a thread than to update or delete individual the posts. And if you did try to edit them, people got upset that you were "changing their words," or "censoring" them (free speech isn't guaranteed on someone else's site), etc. There's no way to make everybody happy, especially when they're enraged already.

Anyway, I've been amazed at just how far the moderators here have regularly let people go before shutting down flame wars. Rick even usually issues a warning or two before hand. On most forums nasty stuff just vanishes, and as someone mentioned above, it's often in violation of forum rules to even mention or question it.

Originally Posted By: Paul678

Pianoworld is still awesome!

thumb



je suis d'accorde!
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2304437 - 07/20/14 02:43 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: PhilipInChina]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
Originally Posted By: PaintedPostDave
FWIW, I support Rickster. thumb


+1

Rickster for President! wink
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2304438 - 07/20/14 02:45 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Norbert]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2340
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Norbert,
I must congratulate you on this post. I have been so bothered by the way you fill the field within which you post on PW with so M U C H S P A C E. This one is properly dense. Congrats!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2304441 - 07/20/14 02:52 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14199
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
I also support Rickster and understand that people don't want to get involved.

And "closing" we do want...

A very unfortunate case of forced confrontation in the industry.

Norbert


Edited by Rickster (07/20/14 04:05 PM)
Edit Reason: Inflammatory and continuation of feud between Norbert and Rod
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2304442 - 07/20/14 02:52 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
When the particular posts are nothing but name calling and finger pointing, there is no value gained from those particular postings to the topic of the thread.

Agreed!

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
what was in that thread went past the bounds of any type of civility. Cruelty is hardly acceptable behavior.

I'm kind of glad I wasn't able to get to page two...

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
As many of you well know, I have been involved in these types of back and forth. I've been working on tempering my responses.


Marty, I'll take the good with the bad. You post so proliferously that you're bound to have a bad day now and then--just like any of us--we're all only human. I appreciate your wisdom, encouragement and your jokes.
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2304447 - 07/20/14 03:00 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Retsacnal - Thank you for your kind words!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2304482 - 07/20/14 04:56 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1652
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I've been working on tempering my responses, but what was in that thread went past the bounds of any type of civility. Cruelty is hardly acceptable behavior.

Yeah I understand this one haha, being civil on the internet is something that took me long time to figure out. Maybe I don't quite have it yet smirk .....it's just so easy to call someone an idiot! I always try to do better at it.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2304510 - 07/20/14 06:43 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: phantomFive]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2056
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
....it's just so easy to call someone an idiot! I always try to do better at it.

Quote of the day!!!
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2304521 - 07/20/14 07:15 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Withindale]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Withindale
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
....it's just so easy to call someone an idiot! I always try to do better at it.

Quote of the day!!!

What we need is the "Piano World Thesaurus of Derogatory Epithets."

Next time you threaten another member with a severe whippen, you might think better of it or they might call you a total back check!

wink
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2305043 - 07/21/14 07:31 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1564
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Also, there was useful information in that thread, regardless of a few bad posts. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as they say.


It might have been a little better to just delete everything from the first bad post onward, and lock it. But there wasn't much lost with the whole thing gone. Either way works for me.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

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#2305683 - 07/22/14 11:43 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2340
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I have known Rod Verhnjack since he was a teenager. I knew his father. He is a very honorable person whose integrity has always remained intact. His posts here are always civil. His reaction to Norbert did not come from nowhere. He refused to back down because he knows his facts. That the moderator couldn't handle that is a shame.

But life ain't fair and that is a fact!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2305703 - 07/23/14 01:09 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
I don't like how these forums are moderated. No offense to any of the moderators, I just think the moderators are unnecessary and too much is left to their own subjective judgement. We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.
I'm a member of a few forums where the only role of the moderator is to ban members who break the rules. The rules are CLEARLY stated and all new members are required to read them. If they break the rules their membership and right to post is revoked. Simple. No need for subjective judgement calls. The rules are the rules and that's that.
I've read a lot of threads here that have been locked JUST when things, IMO, started to get somewhere (ie: thought provoking).
So what if things get a little heated? We're humans, not ostriches who need to find a hole at the first sign of conflict. We have opinions. Sometimes we passionately disagree. Who cares? It's why forums are stimulating to read, as well as informative and thought provoking. Yeah I know, if I don't like how things are done here I'm welcome to go elsewhere. But I DO like it here. I just don't like the whole Gestapo moderator thing. This is the internet--it's hardly even real life.
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#2305707 - 07/23/14 01:18 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7265
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
That the moderator couldn't handle that is a shame.


That's not fair to the moderator. He does not have the luxury of choosing sides that you afford yourself, even if his sense of the situation happened to be the same as yours.

I'm annoyed by the decision myself because if you keep referring to some of these people as respected industry members and keep cleaning up all their dirty laundry every time they screw up, then they'll continue to e respected industry members even when they don't deserve to be.

But regardless of what you or I might think, the moderator did handle it. He took action. He didn't ignore it and hope it would go away.He tried to intervene privately. When that failed he did something else. Whatever he decided was bound to bring on criticism. That's the nature of the job.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#2305708 - 07/23/14 01:18 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
I wouldn't compare the moderators to the Gestapo! I don't think anyone here needs to fear them.
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2305762 - 07/23/14 05:40 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 819
Originally Posted By: AJF
I don't like how these forums are moderated. No offense to any of the moderators, I just think the moderators are unnecessary and too much is left to their own subjective judgement. We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.
I'm a member of a few forums where the only role of the moderator is to ban members who break the rules. The rules are CLEARLY stated and all new members are required to read them. If they break the rules their membership and right to post is revoked. Simple. No need for subjective judgement calls. The rules are the rules and that's that.
I've read a lot of threads here that have been locked JUST when things, IMO, started to get somewhere (ie: thought provoking).
So what if things get a little heated? We're humans, not ostriches who need to find a hole at the first sign of conflict. We have opinions. Sometimes we passionately disagree. Who cares? It's why forums are stimulating to read, as well as informative and thought provoking. Yeah I know, if I don't like how things are done here I'm welcome to go elsewhere. But I DO like it here. I just don't like the whole Gestapo moderator thing. This is the internet--it's hardly even real life.


100% Agreed.

I prefer the old un-moderated Newsgroups. People
take care of themselves, and police themselves. And
useful threads don't get deleted. 4-letter words are how
humans communicate in the English language, why delete them?

Heated disagreements are a sign of passion and love
for the subject, in this case a common love of the piano.
We are not going to agree on everything, so why try to stamp out arguments if they are fruitful? Sometimes breaking the status quo is a GOOD thing!

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#2305766 - 07/23/14 06:31 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1546
Loc: The Netherlands
If you compare Rickster to Gestapo (because that's what it implies) you are completely out of your mind and in my humble opinion are just begging for a permanent ban. INCREDIBLE..
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Schimmel 116 S ...

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#2305791 - 07/23/14 08:11 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
For those of you who do not know what the forum rules and regulations are, please read; for those who need reminding, please read. Piano World Rules and Regulations

Again, not that I feel the need to defend myself as a volunteer moderator on PW, or justify my actions as moderator, I would like to comment on some of the comments made in this thread thus far…

Thanks to those who have come to my defense and supported my decision (whether they agreed with me or not) in this particular matter; to those who continue to gripe and complain about my decision to remove the thread in question, and criticize me as moderator, you should be thankful that you are allowed to gripe and complain about my decision openly on the forum.

Next, I know for a fact there are members here who do not like me, period. But, that’s okay… the lyrics to one of my original blues tunes says “I learned a long time ago that everybody ain’t your friend”. So, that’s a given. smile

Personally, I think the Piano World forums run pretty smoothly and provide lots of valuable information, as well as a lot fun and entertainment to the internet public in general and the piano industry in particular. However, remember, this not a democratic forum and there are times when Frank B or the moderators have to make a decision they deem necessary in order to keep things somewhat civil and running smoothly; and that inevitably makes someone mad or upset. Such is life, I suppose.

Those who do not like the way things are done here on the Piano World forums, in the words of the late, great Ray Charles… “Hit the road Jack”. laugh

Rick
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#2305799 - 07/23/14 08:39 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
BrianDX Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 873
Loc: Lewes DE
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Originally Posted By: AJF
I don't like how these forums are moderated. No offense to any of the moderators, I just think the moderators are unnecessary and too much is left to their own subjective judgement. We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.
I'm a member of a few forums where the only role of the moderator is to ban members who break the rules. The rules are CLEARLY stated and all new members are required to read them. If they break the rules their membership and right to post is revoked. Simple. No need for subjective judgement calls. The rules are the rules and that's that.
I've read a lot of threads here that have been locked JUST when things, IMO, started to get somewhere (ie: thought provoking).
So what if things get a little heated? We're humans, not ostriches who need to find a hole at the first sign of conflict. We have opinions. Sometimes we passionately disagree. Who cares? It's why forums are stimulating to read, as well as informative and thought provoking. Yeah I know, if I don't like how things are done here I'm welcome to go elsewhere. But I DO like it here. I just don't like the whole Gestapo moderator thing. This is the internet--it's hardly even real life.


100% Agreed.

I prefer the old un-moderated Newsgroups. People
take care of themselves, and police themselves. And
useful threads don't get deleted. 4-letter words are how
humans communicate in the English language, why delete them?

Heated disagreements are a sign of passion and love
for the subject, in this case a common love of the piano.
We are not going to agree on everything, so why try to stamp out arguments if they are fruitful? Sometimes breaking the status quo is a GOOD thing!

I 100% disagree. I don't think a lot of folks here have any idea how bad things have gotten on some unregulated forums. Heated disagreements I don't mind; I don't think these types of discussions are usually regulated by the moderators. But when thing get nasty and personal NO good comes from that. Normally the original intent of the OP is completely lost.
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#2305820 - 07/23/14 09:18 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1791
Piano World is a private forum, not a governmental one. There are no free speech rights on a private forum, and the owners of the forum are entitled to set and enforce the rules as they see fit.

Having said that, the moderators here are more than tolerant. While I agree that some of the slanging matches are entertaining for those of us who observe them, they can get to a point where their very existence (as well as content) reflects badly on everyone who participates. It seems to me that the moderators do their best to balance the various interests involved. I might well get upset with the moderators if I felt that they were themselves not acting even-handedly, but at least so far I have no reason to believe that they are.

Having said that, even if I felt that the moderators were acting inappropriately, I would have NO RIGHTS with respect to this, except to stop reading or posting on the thread.

And finally, having said all of this, and as someone whose father's extended family was wiped out in the Holocaust, I find it outrageous that anyone here would compare anyone else here to a member of the Gestapo.

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#2305824 - 07/23/14 09:24 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
wimpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1546
Loc: The Netherlands
+much
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Schimmel 116 S ...

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#2305840 - 07/23/14 10:02 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1817
Loc: Conway, AR USA
In certain cases, Moderator does a service to everyone when deleting a thread altogether. Once recognized, embarrassing remarks can be bad enough. To enshrine these forever is far worse.

(By the way, thanks, Rick, for sending that thread wherein I wrote ****** and ****** to the bats and the moles.)


"Whosoever keeps his mouth shut when he realizes that he is wrong is wise and he who holds the mouth even if he is right is married." - Author unknown
_________________________
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Retired piano technician
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com/

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#2305848 - 07/23/14 10:14 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2340
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Rickster didn't think the postings were positive for PW. Making that decision is his VOLUNTEER job. I respect that and appreciate that we can also complain about it.

The GESTAPO comment is not warranted. Sure you have a right to make that statement-but given the way it has been taken-do you really want to express yourself that way?


Edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT (07/23/14 10:14 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#2305881 - 07/23/14 11:01 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
Geez, I take back the word Gestapo. I love how people choose to zero in on ONE inappropriately chosen word and make that their focal point rather than actually GETTING the point of the post. No wonder these threads all always getting derailed.
You know what? I take it back. Keep your moderators. There are obviously enough overly sensitive people here to warrant keeping things comfy-cozy for everyone.


Edited by AJF (07/23/14 11:10 AM)
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#2305898 - 07/23/14 11:36 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 819
Well, ultimately, you cannot please everyone.

Piano World is still AWESOME!

grin thumb

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#2305955 - 07/23/14 01:10 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Well, ultimately, you cannot please everyone.

Ricky Nelson, "Garden Party" 1972. smile
_________________________
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#2306017 - 07/23/14 03:15 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 719
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: AJF
We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.

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#2306020 - 07/23/14 03:21 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: the nosy ape]
iObsessed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 82
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: the nosy ape

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.


And I'm actually a teen, albeit an arguably nerdy one (in piano, as I would like to consider myself), who uses this site! But your assertion that this is a family site does not resonate with me...it is just this content and depth of content into pianos that would be rather over many kids' heads. Like a nine year old would scratch his head at (especially) the Piano Technicians' Forum.


Edited by iObsessed (07/23/14 03:22 PM)

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#2306063 - 07/23/14 04:50 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: the nosy ape]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: the nosy ape
Originally Posted By: AJF
We're all big boys and girls here and I think the whole moderator thing feels a little too much like grade school.

Even though it is found in the rules and in other places, it bears repeating that this is a family site. There are quite a few teenagers that participate here and I know for a fact that it is read by pre-teens. So no, we are not all big boys and girls. Keep this in mind when complaining about the moderators.


Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.
_________________________

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#2306172 - 07/23/14 08:59 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Paul678 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 819
Originally Posted By: AJF

Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.



Agreed. Pre-teens use plenty of 4-letter words, and
watch plenty of adult videos online.

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#2306183 - 07/23/14 09:24 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
iObsessed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 82
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Paul678
Agreed. Pre-teens use plenty of 4-letter words


Like what? (notice word length)

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#2306187 - 07/23/14 09:36 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 731
Loc: Leicester, UK
Originally Posted By: Rank Piano Amateur
as someone whose father's extended family was wiped out in the Holocaust, I find it outrageous that anyone here would compare anyone else here to a member of the Gestapo.


I hear you and agree ...

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#2306225 - 07/23/14 11:20 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)
_________________________

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#2306232 - 07/23/14 11:44 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
PaintedPostDave Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 555
Loc: Upstate New York
Careful monitoring is a subtle, sometimes not totally effective, means of discouraging cheap shots, negative comments, childish bickering, self promotion and soap box declarations. Because of it, IMHO, PW is often interesting, informative and sometimes entertaining.
Take a moment and scan the comments section associated with a story on, say, the ABC News website. I hope PW never degenerates to that level and with continued monitoring of the kind Rick provides I am confident that it never will.
_________________________
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Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
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#2306351 - 07/24/14 08:48 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 719
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: AJF
Talk to the average 9-12 year old about what they've got access to on the internet in 2014 and I think you'll realize that it's awfully naive to think that a child is going to come across ANYTHING on PW that shocks or offends them.
To restate my original point, I don't think we should have NO moderators here. I think that the moderators' job should be made less subjective. Have RULES and if the rules are broken then you're banned. Simple and easy to execute.

I have read posts on PW that shocked and offended me, much less my kids. Thankfully, such posts are usually deleted by the moderators in short order. I do not wish to have to monitor my kids when they are reading PW.

My main concern, when it comes to my own children, is that they not get a warped impression of what is acceptable to say to another person. There is plenty of nastiness that goes on all over the internet. It eases my concern when I see moderators try to put a cap on that nastiness.

And, of course, trying to make moderation more objective would be a futile endeavor. Making it more objective means making very specific rules. The number of rules that would have to be published to bring noticeably more objectivity would probably be large. Now you would have the situation that there would be too many rules for even the moderators to keep track of. And, ironically, even if you were to implement such a system of inflexible rules, you end up with something that much more resembles a police state than what we have now.

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#2306422 - 07/24/14 11:21 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
PhilipInChina Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1190
Loc: China
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.
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#2306602 - 07/24/14 04:41 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: AJF
... There are obviously enough overly sensitive people here to warrant keeping things comfy-cozy for everyone.


Oh sweet truth! smile
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2306665 - 07/24/14 07:03 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: PhilipInChina]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.


Umm. Find what difficult to believe? That someone made a reference to something that they didn't fully understand the definition of? I met many Americans who don't even know the Capitol city of Canada or our prime minister. We're the second biggest country in the world and their closest neighbour to the north. Heck I've met Americans who don't know the Capitol city of the United States. And you find it surprising that someone doesn't know the name of the Nazi secret police from world war 2 which happened 70 years ago?
You must have very well educated friends....
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#2306696 - 07/24/14 08:17 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Well, there are arguments that Toronto is really the capitol of Canada and that the same honour goes to NYC in the USA.

smile
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306699 - 07/24/14 08:22 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)
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#2306719 - 07/24/14 09:39 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
Originally Posted By: AJF
You can chalk up my use of the word Gestapo to my own ignorance. I thought that word was a reference to 1940's whistle blowing billy bat carrying keystone cops. After seeing the negative reaction to the use of that word I googled it and to my horror realised the Nazi inference. I'm sorry for that. And I should have payed more attention in my high school history class as to have avoided looking like a fool 20 years later here.
That being said, MINUS that ONE inappropriately used word, I still feel that my points are valid regarding the way moderation is used in this forum. And again, yes I know it's a private forum and if I don't like it I can buzz off. But THAT being said this is a FORUM and I think some of you need to google what THAT word means:)


I find that difficult to believe. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt.


Umm. Find what difficult to believe? That someone made a reference to something that they didn't fully understand the definition of? I met many Americans who don't even know the Capitol city of Canada or our prime minister. We're the second biggest country in the world and their closest neighbour to the north. Heck I've met Americans who don't know the Capitol city of the United States. And you find it surprising that someone doesn't know the name of the Nazi secret police from world war 2 which happened 70 years ago?
You must have very well educated friends....

I heard on the radio yesterday that TSA agents have been rejecting District of Columbia drivers' licenses and telling passengers that if they don't have a "US" ID they need a passport!
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1950 Baldwin M

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#2306720 - 07/24/14 09:41 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)

Hehehe... I would have assumed "double double" meant you had to write the bill twice: once in English, and again en Français! wink
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1950 Baldwin M

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#2306722 - 07/24/14 09:46 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Aren't Congresspersons and Senators aliens by definition? They sure can seem to be totally alienated from reality.

Ergo ......
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Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306731 - 07/24/14 10:09 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: AJF]
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 664
Loc: Northern Virgina
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)



Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


For what it's worth, the "we're smarter than they are" perspective is always a two-way street...
_________________________
1950 Baldwin M

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#2306738 - 07/24/14 10:49 PM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I shall refrain from any allusion to Rob Ford.

But, it is so tempting!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2306770 - 07/25/14 12:12 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Retsacnal]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1652
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Retsacnal
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)



Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


For what it's worth, the "we're smarter than they are" perspective is always a two-way street...

Hey, we tried to make them citizens....I guess they liked the British too much
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#2306779 - 07/25/14 12:58 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Paul678]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
Any time a Canadian ever tries to pull an act of superiority toward any American, the American need only reply with four words: Rob Ford Justin Bieber. Those four words will shut any of us up really quickly:)
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#2306780 - 07/25/14 01:00 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: phantomFive]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Originally Posted By: Retsacnal
Originally Posted By: AJF
There used to be this show on the Canadian comedy network called 'Talking with America' hosted by a famous Canadian comic named Rick Mercer. In one episode he had a US senator congratulate Prime Minister Tim Horton on the passing of his 'double double bill' (double double in Canada is how you order 2 creams and 2 sugars in your coffee at Tim Hortons:)



Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


For what it's worth, the "we're smarter than they are" perspective is always a two-way street...

Hey, we tried to make them citizens....I guess they liked the British too much


Hey don't mess with us! We burned down yer White House once y'know :-P
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#2306815 - 07/25/14 04:23 AM Re: Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted? [Re: Retsacnal]
Dara Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1043
Loc: west coast island, canada
Originally Posted By: Retsacnal
Once when I was returning from overseas, the flight attendant was explaining the Immigration and Customs forms so that passengers could have them filled out before arrival. She explained that U.S. citizens needed only to fill out the customs form to declare what they were bringing into the US, while non-US citizens would also need to fill out the immigration form as well. She summed it up by saying, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

A few rows back a lady asked, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant repeated, "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

The lady asked again: "even if you're Canadian?" The flight attendant repeated herself verbatim.

This went round and round, three or four times. Finally, the [presumably] Canadian lady stood up, waved her arms around--as if she hadn't previously had the attendant's attention--and asked testily, "even if you're Canadian?"

The flight attendant then asked, "are you a US citizen?" The Canadian lady replied that she was not, so the flight attendant repeated herself again: "if you're not a US citizen, you need both forms."

Unbelievably, at that point the lady began shrugging her shoulders and waving her arms up and down and said incredulously, "I can't get a straight answer out of this lady."


Thanks for the humor and story Retsacnal !
Also.... nice writing.

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