Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Moderators: Why was my Old Steinway Thread Deleted?

Was it because of the heated argument on there?

Why not just "freeze" the thread, so no one can
post on it anymore, but keep the thread so people
can still just read it?

Hmmm - This is rather unusual.

As Paul678 sagely remarked, it's downhill all the way after a certain point.

My watchword is the best is yet to come, but one can only wonder about this forum after this and the unspeakable treatment of a respected rebuilder not so long ago.

PS Perhaps some legalistic issue necessitated the deletion of the thread. Who knows?

PPS Reason enough, Rickster (#2304324 below)

I was reading that page earlier, and when I tried to load page two the rendered page only had a message saying it couldn't be loaded or was corrupted (I forget exactly what it said). It did the same no matter how i tried to access page 2, and also if I tried to load all the posts in one page. If it was corrupted, then I'm not surprised that its been deleted. I've seen threads that were much more acrimonious that were left open (unless something on the second page went way overboard, and as Marty hinted, threads don't usually vanish, they just get locked).

Reading the OP reminded me of one of my college classmates. He was a mediocre BFA student, and a mediocre musician/thespian. He was interviewed after a show and was so giddy with his own "talent" that out of the blue he announced: "Shakespeare is overrated." Naturally, this was the only comment attributed to him in the paper and made a laughingstock out of him. Sometimes college students are so full of themselves that they think they can take down an institution based solely on their opinion. But he's not critiquing writers anymore...the last time I was home I bumped into him at the bank where he's working as a teller (we graduated in '93). I don't mean to belittle him--just making the point that college students are often full of themselves.

I was surprised that the thread got as much attention as it did. I'd sum up the first post like this: "old stuff doesn't perform as well as new stuff...duh."

And some of the follow up posts were valid:

• new stuff can be improved (e.g. A brand new Mercedes can be turned into an AMG Hammer)
• likewise, older things can be returned to their former glory, or to an even better state than new

and all of the above costs money (save letting a new thing deteriorate into an old thing)

I am the moderator who removed the thread…

Not that I owe anyone, except Frank Baxter and Ken Knapp, an explanation of why, as a courtesy to the OP of that thread and others I’ll tell you why…

When respected members/dealers/rebuilders here start attacking each other and calling each other liars and trying their best to discredit each other, it cheapens the integrity of this forum, in my view. I know the piano business is a tough, hard-knuckles, dog-eat-dog, incredibly competitive business, but Piano World is no place for dealers to do battle in public in front of the whole world and call each other liars.

I could have edited a bunch of comments in several posts, or even locked the thread, but I figured removing the thread was the best approach, especially since one of the individuals refused to edit his own post, after I asked him to.

So, there you have it…

The OP is welcome to start another thread with the same topic if they wish…

Rick

Thanks for the explanation, Rick. I encountered the error I mentioned above while at the drive in theater with my girls, waiting for the movie to start. I probably had page 1 loaded, and then tried to load the already deleted page two... (I often just pull out my phone and start from where I was). The "fun" must have started after I loaded page one, and hadn't yet tried to load page two, and so the thread was sort of pulled out from under me.

I love reading all the expert opinions on this site. I don't even mind if they disagree--it's just more to digest and learn from. It's sad when people start to bicker and squabble though (and I've been guilty of it myself a time or two). It's easy to get sucked in online and post something regrettable. On the surface, it may seem funny to watch people go at it online, or to even antagonize others, but it ruins the sense of community and drives people away.

My thoughts exactly.

Rick

I'm probably one of the few who saw all of it. It did get pretty bad.

I'd like to support Rick in putting it away. Shouldn't have been left for people to read the meltdown.

I always take everything with a grain of salt online. I read much from many sources on acoustics. Always interested. Yes, definitely, if I ever have the money. I'll be visiting some rebuilders, one in particular, to see for myself.

Ok, fair enough Rick. I didn't realize you had
asked someone to edit a post.

However, deleting the entire thread without explanation was very confusing for those not directly involved in the conflict.

It's like being arrested without the cop telling you what the charges are, or what you did wrong! How can we avoid behaving badly in the future, if we don't know the errors of our ways?

Also, there was useful information in that thread, regardless of a few bad posts. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as they say.

May I make a suggestion? I know most people don't like others telling them how to do their jobs, but I would suggest locking the thread first, deleting the offending posts, and then posting a final message stating the reasons why the thread is being locked. This way, people understand why we are being reprimanded, and the useful information in the thread is still there for all to read and learn from.

My 0.02

Pianoworld is still awesome!

I know of another forum where it is against the rules to even ask about a deleted post or thread.

I'm against deleting posts from a thread because it ends up making the thread incoherent and confusing.

FWIW, I support Rickster.

When the particular posts are nothing but name calling and finger pointing, there is no value gained from those particular postings to the topic of the thread.

As many of you well know, I have been involved in these types of back and forth. I've been working on tempering my responses, but what was in that thread went past the bounds of any type of civility. Cruelty is hardly acceptable behavior.

I was finding the thread to be interesting and aside from the sidetrack, I thought it was of value. The comparison and understanding of different viewpoints always makes for interesting discussion, as long as it is not vindictive or abusive.

As I stated earlier, I was surprised by the deletion, rather than selective editing or being locked. However, Rick is our Moderator and it was purely his decision, as it should be. Please remember, we are all guests in this forum and there needs to be some standards set for all of us to express our opinions on the topic, rather than other members.

Yes, I know, I'm guilty as charged.

cheers to all and apologies to OP or anybody else who feels inconvenienced by all of this
Norbert

I think Rickster does a terrific job in knowing when to intervene an when not, and also how to intervene. You can say a lot of things but not that this forum is over-moderated.
There was not that much in the thread (up till the moment I last read it) which is not already on the forum and Retsacnal summarizes it quite well.

I must say that sometimes I let myself being provoked into posting something I regret a minute or a day later. Luckily this forum has kind of a conscience

+1

I understand how you feel. When I first started posting, I'd ask a lot of questions. Sometimes arguments would ensue between those who answered and the post would get derailed by infighting. At the same time, I'd be getting some valid information. I remember once or twice trying to defuse arguments (it didn't really work). I was dismayed when the thread would get locked. But...



...at the same time, the moderators are volunteers and shouldn't have to waste a lot of time editing people's posts, and, frankly, babysitting. I used to maintain and moderate a forum for my High School many years ago (we've since moved into Classmates.com and then on to Facebook). I also used UBB, and it was pretty clunky software (at least then). It was absolutely easiest to just delete a thread than to update or delete individual the posts. And if you did try to edit them, people got upset that you were "changing their words," or "censoring" them (free speech isn't guaranteed on someone else's site), etc. There's no way to make everybody happy, especially when they're enraged already.

Anyway, I've been amazed at just how far the moderators here have regularly let people go before shutting down flame wars. Rick even usually issues a warning or two before hand. On most forums nasty stuff just vanishes, and as someone mentioned above, it's often in violation of forum rules to even mention or question it.



je suis d'accorde!

Rickster for President!

Norbert,
I must congratulate you on this post. I have been so bothered by the way you fill the field within which you post on PW with so M U C H S P A C E. This one is properly dense. Congrats!

I also support Rickster and understand that people don't want to get involved.

And "closing" we do want...

A very unfortunate case of forced confrontation in the industry.

Norbert

Agreed!


I'm kind of glad I wasn't able to get to page two...



Marty, I'll take the good with the bad. You post so proliferously that you're bound to have a bad day now and then--just like any of us--we're all only human. I appreciate your wisdom, encouragement and your jokes.