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I also think that if it really is a worthwhile development, various companies will pick up on it. Yamaha, for one example, is not exactly adverse to trying out new things. Why something like this should be crowd-sourced instead of being worked on by the Yamahas of the piano-manufacturing world, who have the expertise in-house to fully understand the potential of it (not to mention having the deep pockets to build a one-off just to check it out), tells me a lot.

Put differently, I am not inclined to privately subsidize an industry when the corporations involved in it have the means to get to the same end without my help, assuming that end is a worthwhile goal.

wr: My guess is because dinosaur companies like Yamaha (or old publishers for that matter.. *ahem*) are really slow to take on new developments.

I mean any company that doesn't follow closely on what's going on is dead. Just take a look at Eriksson and (almost) nokia. Right now the game is played between Samsung, LG and Apple (iPhone). Anyone else is almost gone... Including blackberry!

Same goes for such innovations, I think.

Now, all the above doesn't change a bit my opinion of this indiegogo project, as I've mentioned in every post that Jeff has made, but I think there is an explanation on why he ended up in indiegogo, rather than to seek funding from Steinway (for example).

To this idea, it's why Steingraeber has produced pianos with innovations they've licensed from Hurstwood Farm Pianos. Those innovations include carbon fibre soundboards and bridge agraffes. Collectively they–the innovations– are referred to as the "Phoenix" system. Here's brochure from the Steingraeber web site. Here's mention of carbon fibre in Steingraeber pianos

Here's a link to the all carbon fibre piano piano that's available to order from Hurstwood Farm.

My interest in all of this is my piano comes from Hurstwood Farm and I played many of their pianos - including the all carbon-fibre grand - during my visits there. I found the overall environment at HF to be just amazing. If you're a pianist and in their area (Kent south of London) it's well worth stopping in to see and hear what's going on there.

But pianos are dinosaurs themselves - there's little point in pretending otherwise, regardless of what materials they are made of.

But, OTOH, Yamaha is not exactly the dinosaur you seem to think it is - their Disklaviers may be the most commercially successful technological development in pianos of the last 50 years (and some adventurous composers have taken advantage of that development). And, of course, Yamaha is continually introducing new digital instruments and synths - that's not really a characteristic of a dinosaur company, I don't think.

I don't know Mark, every time I read a post of yours relating to Hurstwood Farm, I'm treated to piles of links and endless superlatives which are not necessarily germane to the debate at hand. That makes me feel that you have a personal stake in this that goes beyond the subject matter and into a personal defence/promotion of an obvious friend of yours in Richard Dain.

The effect that has on me is that I can't take onboard your opinion of any rival piano technology. I've seen Richard Dain's posts on other forums about his research. He is quite arrogant and dismissive of his rivals. If you believe everything he has said, he has tried everything, looked into everything, built everything and already ruled out/ruled in everything relating to perfect piano design - and his products are it. This is his way of saying "I'm the world leader in this business". His attitude doesn't sit well with me. This is not to say he doesn't build and sell a superb product - I'm sure he does. No doubt he is a world leader, but I don't think he has a monopoly on innovation in pianos. And it would be nice if people in this field of research and enterprise weren't so scornful of the efforts of others.

Ando,

To be forthright about the whole matter, I'll just apologise. to you and anyone else who reads what's I've written as being the spirit you've described. I don't work for Richard Dain. I know him because I purchased a piano from him. And it's a very fine piano at that. I've found him to be a delightful gentleman and unbelievably knowledgable about everything and anything related to pianos. As I've said many times before his shop is unlike any other I've been too. And I'm enthusiastic about that.

But, to go back to your point I clearly hear the spirit in which I've presented isn't the spirit in which you've received. It's true on the internet, as in music, that less can easily be more. And it's true that economy can be a good thing. So perhaps in stating my opinions I need to keep both of those prior sentences front and centre.

In terms of what I've posted I try to include context with assertions when it's possible. From my point of view all links have addressed specific points in the ongoing discussion. Mostly that's been to claims of innovation. What it comes down to for me is showing information sources. To me that's a good thing. It's demonstrates what points of view hinge on. It shows where they come from. Perhaps that's an academic point of view but it's true I'm a post-academic. So ....

You've stated some personal opinions and they're yours. They don't agree with mine. But that's fine. Because we come to our opinions from the presence(s) we see on the web and what we see in person. That's a different space than claims about a project.

The short version of all above is if it seems I'm pushing an agenda other than that of the discussion then I haven't explained myself well. Which is why I began this post with an apology to you or anyone who's read my posts in a spirit other than what I've explained my intention to be.

Now if I may jest I've managed to write a post with no links ...

Thanks for that reply, Mark. I appreciate the time you took to explain your position and I respect it. I have no doubt that Mr Dain puts together some ripping instruments and I hope to play one of them one of these days - regardless of anything I've said above. In the end, it's about the music and the instrument so I certainly wouldn't hesitate to visit Hurstwood Farm if I ever get the chance. I'm not one to hold a grudge, and what I wrote above has been merely my impression from a couple of threads I read on another forum, but I'm certainly open to the idea that he is a different man in reality. We have all succumbed to emotion and defensiveness on forums - myself included.

Cheers, Mark.