Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#2305847 - 07/23/14 10:11 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: gsmonks]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 255
Loc: USA
Markarian, some of what you're seeing is simply demographics in the US. It crosses many occupations and industries. The baby boomers are a big population, and for a variety of reasons they aren't retiring at the age and in the numbers that earlier generations did.

Originally Posted By: gsmonks
The classical music scene croaked at the same time as the avante garde jazz scene, in circa 1963. By the early 70's, all the big-name composers had died off, and as in the jazz world, there simply was no new generation to take over.

This isn't to say that no one is writing jazz and classical any longer- they are. But they're a generation of wannabees and wankers who aren't breaking any new ground, aren't doing anything original, and are more taxidermists and weekend-warriors than real musicians.

gsmonks, it sounds like you don't know anything about classical music.

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#2305875 - 07/23/14 10:50 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Moscow, ID
I can only speak as a classical guy, but the big change I've seen is with commercially recorded music. Now that everything is shared on youtube, there's absolutely no reason to buy recorded music (I'm not saying this is right - it's just the way it is). However, the great opportunity as I see it is to use youtube as a promotion vehicle for live performance. My impression is that the demand for live performance is just as solid as it's ever been with young people driving the trend. I think the trick is giving the audience something that has both quality and originality - even with the trusted war-horses of music.

Only my opinion - I hope I'm right!

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I never had much interest in the piano until I realized that every time I played, a girl would appear on the piano bench to my left and another to my right.” - Duke Ellington


Top
#2305929 - 07/23/14 12:37 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: gsmonks]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 837
Originally Posted By: gsmonks

That's not the issue here. The issue is the lack of jobs for working musicians. Each city used to have dozens, in some instances hundreds of clubs featuring live music. Today they're all gone. I can easily name 50 cities where I used to play that today have not one regular live venue, for ANY kind of music.

I have friends in Vancouver, Victoria, New York City, Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Amsterdam, Montreal, Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Boston, Seattle, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, NONE of whom are working as full-time professional musicians any more. The clubs are all closed, gone out of business, the whole entire scene is kaputsky.

It's usually cyclical, but this time it's different. In the 70's, brass musicians were running all over North America like chickens with their heads cut off, chasing rumours of work. When it finally dawned on them that there wasn't any, they settled where they were, hung out their shingle, and taught for a living. That's why in the late 60's, early 70's, I had trumpet teachers like Bobby Hilton, Bobby Herriot, Joe de Bruyker, Len Whitely, and so on. The only reason I had them as teachers was because there was no place for them to play any more.

At that time, the bar band thing took over and replaced the dance and club thing.

But this time, the bar band scene has come to an end with NOTHING to replace it. THAT's the difference. It's not that things have changed this time. It's that the scene itself is gone.

The kids coming along aren't playing live venues. They're making videos.

The computer/video/Interweb scene is sucking the life out of both live music and the television industry. Television itself is on the way out. There are times when our local television stations are putting on public-service commercials because there are no paid ads to fill those slots.

The Interweb is the last big venue, and it is anathema to live ANYthing.


I don't know if there are less opportunities today for musicians then 20 years ago, but you can't say the system is broken because it's changed and you've stayed the same. "Making videos" - you mean YouTube, is a wonderful medium and those who know how to leverage it have created opportunities for themselves that probably wouldn't have been possible without it. There are many "YouTube Stars" that I know of, some I follow. Kyle Landry as an example, Sal Kahn (not a musician though), Hiromi Uehara I believe also got a lot of great exposure through YouTube. Even Rickster here seems to have a good following on YouTube, and I'm guessing he was born after 1980 and doesn't qualify as a millennial (if I'm wrong, please forgive me).

The bar band, EDM, these are all evolutions of music. They're not any less, though some will disagree.

The Internet is sucking the life out of those who refuse to adapt and learn new things. Everyone can make YouTube videos these days, even on your iPhone. Give it a try, maybe you'll get 300,000 views and be the next Justin Beieber!
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

Top
#2305962 - 07/23/14 01:23 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8535
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Michaelha
The Internet is sucking the life out of those who refuse to adapt and learn new things. Everyone can make YouTube videos these days, even on your iPhone. Give it a try, maybe you'll get 300,000 views and be the next Justin Beieber!

Well, I'll never be a Justin Beiber, but one of my YouTube music videos has over 650,000 views! smile

It has certainly surprised the heck out of me...

Just goes to show that entertainment and musical proficiency are not the same thing. (Musically proficient I'm not smile )

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#2305966 - 07/23/14 01:29 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Markarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle Area
Okay, a couple of things:

First off, I'm one of those kids making videos. I have one original song with 20,000 views. Not really much to brag about if you consider some more popular musicians out there, but still I think more people than I will ever meet in my lifetime. The song was even translated into Russian and performed live in Russia.

Which brings me to my next point, gsmonks. I have almost zero interest in live performance. I do not feel confident in my ability to play consistently enough for it to be worth the stress. There is a live music scene, at least in Seattle, I've been invited to many gigs, but have turned them down because I have confidence problems. I'm comfortable sitting in front of my workstation with a MIDI controller and Kontakt open, or playing my Steinway at 3AM with only the neighbors and my partner as my audience. Even with acoustic panels, the former have said they can hear the piano clear as day. Luckily, they have expressed enjoyment, rather than annoyance. Let's see how long that lasts.

I do lament that all those big bands of the 30s and 40s are gone. I adore that sound and yes, you have now met the former 28 year old who at one point played "40s on 4" and "Cinemagic" XM channels constantly in his car on the way to class.

As for demographics and terminology, the people who come up with these terms are marketing gurus, who write books on how to sell to a particular group of people. "Millennials" or "Echo Boomers" or "Generation Y" are generally considered those born between 1980 and 1994, depending on who you ask. Some of us caught a glimpse of the Berlin Wall falling down and all of us are old enough to remember 9/11. We were raised on the Internet, have an unshakable sense of entitlement, and we are searching for authenticity in an artificial world, whatever the crap that means.

The point of this thread is not to ask for help, not to complain. I did NOT want my piano buying experience to be a journey, but that seems to be the expectation here, something to aspire to. I just wanted a F-ing piano that fit my needs and I think I found it and can hopefully get back to my life. The point of this thread is to express concern that every piano industry person I have encountered, both in sales and service, are many years older than I and it makes me worry that I will not have sufficient resources to support my instrument as I go forward as a musician.
_________________________
NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Korg Kross 61

Top
#2305975 - 07/23/14 01:52 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7438
Loc: Rochester MN
Reading many of these threads has become a safari, rather than a journey.

wink
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#2305981 - 07/23/14 02:12 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Paul678]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1364
Loc: Reseda, California
I have a 1929 Knabe 9 ft. grand. It has small diameter wire wound strings fairly far up the scale, and if I break one, it would be a special order, and it might not sound exactly like the rest.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

Top
#2305994 - 07/23/14 02:27 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7193
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Markarian

I did NOT want my piano buying experience to be a journey, but that seems to be the expectation here, something to aspire to. I just wanted a F-ing piano that fit my needs and I think I found it and can hopefully get back to my life.


Now, them is words I can understand. cool

Quote:
The point of this thread is to express concern that every piano industry person I have encountered, both in sales and service, are many years older than I and it makes me worry that I will not have sufficient resources to support my instrument as I go forward as a musician.


The resources you will need to support your instrument consist of one skilled and honest technician and a fallback position if that individual is indisposed. At least in my neighborhood there are many popular techs under 50. One thing you should take into account though is that as piano ownership continues to decline, top-notch tech services will continue to increase in pricee.

Heaven forbid that you will need industry people of the sales variety to support your craft. The only thing they can possibly do for you is convince you that your current instrument falls short of your talent and that you need an upgrade. First-time buyers of brand new pianos are so scarce that selling upgrade fever is essential to keeping things going.

The reason that you encounter so many mentally and physically old and fatigued individuals in sales is that like most industries on the decline, the piano industry fears unconventional thinking. That is true at the manufacturing level, the marketing level, the distribution level, and the retail level. Fear of change seems perverse when you consider how badly the industry has slipped, but even at the higher levels, individuals who have failed elsewhere are recycled into new positions. A distributor may leave one company in shambles, only to be re-incarnated at another. Salesmen of the 'closer' variety whose approach to selling is a complee disconnect for current consumer behavior wander from dealership to dealership trying to recreate the world of fat commissions they knew 20 or 30 years ago.

The reason for the many inquiries here about piano quests is that the majority of members here are into classical music and many of those classically-inclined members are at least as much into the instrument as the music one can make on it. They equate the perfect piano to the Holy Grail that the Crusdaers wee supposedly questing after. Some actually become footsoldiers of particular retailers carrying their banners from thread to thread. On top of all that there are a disproportinate number of AWMB's in residence here. Hence the romantic quest, journey, adventure stuff.

What the hey? In the end they get their pianos and live happily ever after at least until the upgrade itch starts. Most of the real Crusaders had less pleasant outcomes to their quest.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#2306004 - 07/23/14 02:44 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: turandot]
Plowboy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2308
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: turandot
AWMB

What's that??

Anyway, your remarks on piano buying are spot on. I've learned the hard way. Heraclitus said you can't step into the same river twice. Similarly, you can't play the same piano twice. Yeah, you can check to make sure the serial number is the same, but the piano you buy at the shop will not be the piano that shows up at your house. Nor will it be the piano you play the next day. Pianos are organic. They are in a state of constant change. Find a good one that you can afford, stop analyzing and hand wringing and buy it.
_________________________
Gary

Top
#2306014 - 07/23/14 03:12 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Plowboy]
iLaw Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 193
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Plowboy

... Find a good one that you can afford, stop analyzing and hand wringing and buy it.


... then start practicing.

A great performance on an old Story & Clark beats a ham-fisted performance on a Steingraeber E-272 every time.

Larry.

Top
#2306041 - 07/23/14 04:18 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Beacon Chris]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7193
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Beacon chris
Now that everything is shared on youtube, there's absolutely no reason to buy recorded music (I'm not saying this is right - it's just the way it is). However, the great opportunity as I see it is to use youtube as a promotion vehicle for live performance.


Hi Chris,

I'll respond to your hello here because I've had no requests from people to write apologies for them, so I'm out of that business.

Anyhey, It's nice to chat. Let's talk about Pianomadam. thumb

To be serious for just a moment, I think the opportunities in classical music are the greatest when the artist dedicates time on a regular basis to communite directly with fans. It's true that you can push the professional critics off of your stage if you let people hear your stuff for free so as to make up their their minds. But in the world of classical piano there are two camps

1) Lisitsa
2) All the rest

A slew of piano artists have gone youtube, some direct, some through proxies. But Lisitsa is the only one to use her youtube channel to regularly chit-chat with her fan base. She also reaches out directly to them on other social media. Let's face it. This is the Facebook era and everybody wants face time with those they admire. An artist who responds to little-old-me in person is hard to resist (except in your case grin) .

The phenomenon is even stronger in the visual arts. Not on youtube of course, but on Facebook and even Linkedin. People put a piee up for feedback and then get inquiries about a direct sale. Forget the number of likes. Money talks!

In June my wife was contacted by a Museum in Berlin and a curator at the San Francisco Main Public Library. Both inquiries were about purcha$ing one of her pieces. Both inquiries came through Faceobook. She got another from a museum in Moscow through Linkedin. People are linke in in Moscow? Who knew?

It's a different world out there, a little awkward for me, and my wife is a reluctant convert. But you can't argue with succe$s.

Now abou your blatant self-promotion on the apology thread

Pure gold..............no
Pure eveil.............no
Pure brass _ _ lls....yes
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#2306072 - 07/23/14 05:06 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
gsmonks Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Ha-ha . . . I hope you're prepared for a long wait.

It's good this topic has come up, because there ARE things we could be doing.

For example, back in the 70's, the guys I was playing with, and I, decided to play it smart instead of grinding it out in the bar-band scene. At some point we decided to put on our own gigs by renting halls, community centres, repertory cinemas, what have you, hire security, get a liquor license, got our friends and spouses involved, billed most of our gigs as seasonal parties (New Year's, Hallowe'en, Christmas, Easter . . .), worked it out so that we had at least one per month, and we ended up making a LOT more money. No agent, handled our own advertising, made a lot of mistakes but corrected along the way and got good at it.

A young concert pianist, whose name I can't remember off-hand (I think his last name started with a "B"), rented Carnegie Hall and promoted himself at that time, releasing his first album on which he played Mussorgsky's Pictures At An Exhibition. He went on to have a pretty good career. Michael Beroff? Something like that?

The Mnozil brass organisation is worth studying from a business standpoint. They're very popular right now, becoming even more popular as word gets around.

The point being that you have to pretty much make your own work these days. There's no venue, so you have to create one.

Top
#2306084 - 07/23/14 05:37 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: turandot]
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Moscow, ID
Turandot,

Li$it$a = gold...(perhaps green) grin

Seriously, I've not had time to do what Lisitsa has done (to that extent), but I began improving my website and youtube channel these past couple of years, and my upcoming season is much better because of it. Also, writing about music and giving pre/post concert chats that help people get to know how I'm uniquely relating to the art really works. I don't know if you've checked out Jeremy Denk, but he's the gold standard in this respect. His NPR videos are great. My take-away is that classical music is thriving in many, many places - especially mid-level community orchestras and opera companies. It's really interesting to see - also exciting.

Great to hear about your wife! That is incredible news - I'd love to see her work.

Now for Pianomadam... blush It's all Pianoworld lore now - along with the First Act superstore. cool It's a goofy biz sometimes, huh?

OK, now back to our regularly scheduled "new blood" thread! (I bow, exit stage right)

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I never had much interest in the piano until I realized that every time I played, a girl would appear on the piano bench to my left and another to my right.” - Duke Ellington


Top
#2306198 - 07/23/14 09:48 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1405
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Markarian
The point of this thread is not to ask for help, not to complain. I did NOT want my piano buying experience to be a journey, but that seems to be the expectation here, something to aspire to. I just wanted a F-ing piano that fit my needs and I think I found it and can hopefully get back to my life.

If that's how much you care, go find yourself a Yamaha or Kawai and be done with it. Fine pianos, not too expensive, you won't have to worry about much.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

Top
#2306239 - 07/24/14 12:08 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: turandot]
Plowboy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2308
Loc: SoCal
Quote:
AWMB


Austrian Wine Marketing Board?
_________________________
Gary

Top
#2306260 - 07/24/14 01:28 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: gsmonks]
phacke Online   content

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 535
Loc: CO, USA
Originally Posted By: gsmonks

I know musicians all over the UK, Europe, Canada and the US. We're all in pretty much the same boat.

There is still some work out there. I'm in the process of buying a 23-passenger bus & trailer, the trailer to be converted into a portable stage. This, for playing the Folk, Fringe and Jazz Festivals from coast to coast. The money's poor, you only get to play part of the year, but it's that or play only a few gigs a year.

And that's pretty much what's out there.


Greetings -

It sound like you have a plan. That's good.

Two thoughts, and I am trying to be constructive here, while admitting low probability of being useful.

1) All those guys working the oil sands the next province over probably could use some entertainment.

-looking at the other side of the coin-

2) Michaelha mentioned Hiromi Uehara on youtube. But she also tours like crazy.
http://www.hiromimusic.com
And click tour.
I noticed in the major population centers of Europe, it is difficult not to miss a tour stop. Hardly anything at all in the central swath of the American continent. I take that as an indication of where the biz is.

Much like an academic marketing study, one must identify the market & customer, provide the product they want in a manner that is supported by your specific competencies.

Best wishes-
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
G. F. Händel: Suite in G minor (HWV 452)
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin

Top
#2306269 - 07/24/14 02:15 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: phacke]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 837
Originally Posted By: phacke

Greetings -

It sound like you have a plan. That's good.

Two thoughts, and I am trying to be constructive here, while admitting low probability of being useful.

1) All those guys working the oil sands the next province over probably could use some entertainment.

-looking at the other side of the coin-

2) Michaelha mentioned Hiromi Uehara on youtube. But she also tours like crazy.
http://www.hiromimusic.com
And click tour.
I noticed in the major population centers of Europe, it is difficult not to miss a tour stop. Hardly anything at all in the central swath of the American continent. I take that as an indication of where the biz is.

Much like an academic marketing study, one must identify the market & customer, provide the product they want in a manner that is supported by your specific competencies.

Best wishes-


Didn't mean to imply that YouTube was a substitute for live performances at all, simply that YouTube is a great way to get exposure, marketing, etc. I mean, who's going to spend money on a ticket to a live show for someone they've never heard of they're there for other reasons.

I actually believe that live performances is critical to a successful music career. Gone are the days when recording artists could make one good song, put it on the radio, and everyone had to blindly buy the whole CD with 10 other "filler" songs for $15. People either illegally download MP3's these days or listen to it for free on Spotify, etc.

Hiromi did tour the US. I saw her here in San Francisco at the SF Jazz Center I think in March or April. She toured something like 5-10 North American cities. I think she's touring a lot of Europe now because of all the summer jazz festivals. But I might agree that people in Europe do appreciate real music more than Americans, and know how to enjoy life more in general.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

Top
#2306270 - 07/24/14 02:36 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Dara Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1031
Loc: west coast island, canada
There is dynamic current music happening, in all genres and new explorations.
And there are upcoming excellent piano technicians and tuners,
some of them prefer to stay in the background,
still learning their craft.

Top
#2306279 - 07/24/14 03:34 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: phantomFive]
Markarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle Area
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Originally Posted By: Markarian
The point of this thread is not to ask for help, not to complain. I did NOT want my piano buying experience to be a journey, but that seems to be the expectation here, something to aspire to. I just wanted a F-ing piano that fit my needs and I think I found it and can hopefully get back to my life.

If that's how much you care, go find yourself a Yamaha or Kawai and be done with it. Fine pianos, not too expensive, you won't have to worry about much.


I don't want a Yamaha or Kawai. Just because I'm impatient and frustrated doesn't mean I don't have specific tastes. I have already bought and paid for a new instrument.
_________________________
NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Korg Kross 61

Top
#2306283 - 07/24/14 03:50 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: michaelha]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1266
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: michaelha
People either illegally download MP3's these days or listen to it for free on Spotify, etc.

I am not sure that's true.
1. I use Spotify (a lot) but it's not free (10 bucks a month) and is supposed to provide artists a steady income.
2. Illegal MP3 downloading is a hassle, especially for classical music. Itunes and comparable online stores sell quite a lot of music.
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S ..

Top
#2306311 - 07/24/14 06:42 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3583
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Markarian


I don't want a Yamaha or Kawai. Just because I'm impatient and frustrated doesn't mean I don't have specific tastes. I have already bought and paid for a new instrument.


You have? What is it?!

Top
#2306342 - 07/24/14 08:35 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
Piano Practice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/14
Posts: 26
Loc: MADISON, MISSISSIPPI
I may have missed it in the replies above and hopefully I’m not falling off into the weeds when I ask this… Aren’t elementary school age kids in countries in Asia, such as Japan, required to take piano? (Emphasis on the word "required".) Thus, instilling in the kids music theory, piano skills, which produces, down the road, a strong skillset for mathematics, analytical/reasoning, etc. for future engineers and doctors, plus spurring on future techs/tuners, too? I wish we had this same emphasis here in the US… Just compare our math & science scores to other industrialized countries, I believe we need some help…
_________________________
Piano Practice
_______________
1972 Baldwin R #196745

Top
#2306344 - 07/24/14 08:38 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: phacke]
gsmonks Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: phacke
Originally Posted By: gsmonks

I know musicians all over the UK, Europe, Canada and the US. We're all in pretty much the same boat.

There is still some work out there. I'm in the process of buying a 23-passenger bus & trailer, the trailer to be converted into a portable stage. This, for playing the Folk, Fringe and Jazz Festivals from coast to coast. The money's poor, you only get to play part of the year, but it's that or play only a few gigs a year.

And that's pretty much what's out there.


Greetings -

It sound like you have a plan. That's good.

Two thoughts, and I am trying to be constructive here, while admitting low probability of being useful.

1) All those guys working the oil sands the next province over probably could use some entertainment.

-looking at the other side of the coin-

2) Michaelha mentioned Hiromi Uehara on youtube. But she also tours like crazy.
http://www.hiromimusic.com
And click tour.
I noticed in the major population centers of Europe, it is difficult not to miss a tour stop. Hardly anything at all in the central swath of the American continent. I take that as an indication of where the biz is.

Much like an academic marketing study, one must identify the market & customer, provide the product they want in a manner that is supported by your specific competencies.

Best wishes-


You're right- the central US (and Canada) are a vacuum in terms of venues, but that's exactly the reason we should be playing them, especially the classical and jazz venues.

You might be surprised how well-attended classical and jazz venues can be in the most unlikely places. The Royal Winnipeg Ballet and the Winnipeg New Music Festival are great examples. Your first impressions is, "How on earth can this exist HERE, of all places?"

I live in rural Saskatchewan, and old-timers have often surprised me with their knowledge of classical and jazz artists who used to go out of their way to tour here. The trumpet player Mendez, for example, used to tour the prairies.

We should also be playing lesser- and least-known venues because often the people living in them are starved for something besides pop and country.

Also, if we ignore such places, we risk losing those people forever.

Bottom line- you either build a market or lose it.

Top
#2306346 - 07/24/14 08:43 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: BrainCramp]
gsmonks Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: BrainCramp
Markarian, some of what you're seeing is simply demographics in the US. It crosses many occupations and industries. The baby boomers are a big population, and for a variety of reasons they aren't retiring at the age and in the numbers that earlier generations did.

Originally Posted By: gsmonks
The classical music scene croaked at the same time as the avante garde jazz scene, in circa 1963. By the early 70's, all the big-name composers had died off, and as in the jazz world, there simply was no new generation to take over.

This isn't to say that no one is writing jazz and classical any longer- they are. But they're a generation of wannabees and wankers who aren't breaking any new ground, aren't doing anything original, and are more taxidermists and weekend-warriors than real musicians.

gsmonks, it sounds like you don't know anything about classical music.


I've been studying, writing and writing about classical music, probably a lot longer than you've been alive. I began composing in the 1950's.

You're probably not old enough to know how the classical world has changed since 1963. Most orchestras today are amateur organisations that keep the genre going, but like jazz musicians are enthusiasts without being the real deal.

Top
#2306354 - 07/24/14 08:53 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: wimpiano]
gsmonks Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 638
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: wimpiano
Come on guys.. this is so lame..
There has never been a big public for classical or at least serious (good) music. Ok, there where some hypes but no, the common man never went to conservatory. In reality a lot of music before NOW was crap, also in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's.


That is simply not true. Caruso's recordings, from 1902 to 1920, were hugely popular, for example, next only to recordings of John Philip Sousa's band music. Artists like himself were a huge draw back then. What's even more telling is that most orchestras at the time were professional organisations, not subsidised like they are today.

Jazz was the popular music of the day in the 1920's (aka The Jazz Age or Era). It remained big, with thousands of professional big-bands on the road, until the end of WWII. Classical music was likewise a big seller until the mid-1970's. Across the board, the mid-70's is considered the high-water mark for recording as well.

Top
#2306379 - 07/24/14 09:25 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: gsmonks]
BrainCramp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 255
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: gsmonks

I've been studying, writing and writing about classical music, probably a lot longer than you've been alive. I began composing in the 1950's.

You're probably not old enough to know how the classical world has changed since 1963. Most orchestras today are amateur organisations that keep the genre going, but like jazz musicians are enthusiasts without being the real deal.

gsmonks, I'm baffled as to why you'd make assumptions about someone's age based on no information. Believe it or not, some of us on these forums do remember the 1950s and 1960s.

You may have been writing about classical music for a long time. But given that you referred to all contemporary classical composers as "taxidermists", I'd say you haven't been writing about it very intelligently.

Maybe things look different in Saskatchewan than they do here in Boston...

Top
#2306392 - 07/24/14 09:51 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 900
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Markarian stated his age in post #1
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
#2306404 - 07/24/14 10:30 AM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: Markarian]
adamp88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Omaha, NE
While it may not be a tidal wave of young people entering the field, I think the piano technician community actually does have a pretty good influx of young blood. I'm 35 and know quite a few technicians around my age, and even a few quite a bit younger. The North Bennett Street School in Boston has an excellent piano technology program, the Chicago School for Piano Technology has had a great nine year run (although sadly this is its last year in operation), there's a great school in Ontario and Florida State has a piano technology program as well.

Of the people I graduated with, all are at the very least working successfully part time in the field, a few are primarily doing rebuilding work, and several others have established university jobs and are affiliated with the local Steinway stores.

If you look at the major classical music festivals (Tanglewood, Aspen, Interlochen, etc), while the head technicians are well established, the majority of the maintenance work is handled by young techs who are relatively new to the field. In addition, these young techs are making their way into the manufacturers' factories. I know that Steinway has in the past couple years brought on at least two techs both in their 30s, one as a concert tech and one in a more technical role to help spur improvements. Mason & Hamlin, being so close to NBSS, have a host of young techs working there.

There's hope out there. smile
_________________________
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski
Piano Technician
Associate Member, PTG

ASB Piano Service
Omaha, NE

Top
#2306459 - 07/24/14 01:07 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: wimpiano]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 837
Originally Posted By: wimpiano
Originally Posted By: michaelha
People either illegally download MP3's these days or listen to it for free on Spotify, etc.

I am not sure that's true.
1. I use Spotify (a lot) but it's not free (10 bucks a month) and is supposed to provide artists a steady income.
2. Illegal MP3 downloading is a hassle, especially for classical music. Itunes and comparable online stores sell quite a lot of music.


Spotify is a good model and hopefully it will start to reverse the trend. Although it has a very high conversion rate of paid subscribers (20%) relative to other freemium models which are typically 1%-10%, still 80% of it's users just deal with the ads. But I suppose Spotify shares the ad revenue with the artists.
http://press.spotify.com/us/information/

But this shows the record sales in the US.

1973-2009
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-charts-explain-the-real-death-of-the-music-industry-2011-2

2007-2014
http://www.statista.com/statistics/273308/music-album-sales-in-the-us/

Perhaps the ratio of paying users is much higher in the "real music" crowd since we might appreciate the artists' efforts more and/or realize they have a much smaller base than a Rihanna or Katy Perry.

For me, I listen to it for free first, if I like it I usually buy the MP3's on Amazon.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

Top
#2306465 - 07/24/14 01:31 PM Re: Where is the new blood? [Re: gsmonks]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3583
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: gsmonks
Most orchestras today are amateur organisations that keep the genre going, but like jazz musicians are enthusiasts without being the real deal.


Gsmonks, would you like to explain this remark? Suggestion: make it good.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
I can only Trill well on good grand pianos....
by Paul678
09/22/14 11:48 PM
Is Bondfix just as good as Hotstuff CA glue?
by Paul678
09/22/14 10:42 PM
What's up with Paulello?
by jim ialeggio
09/22/14 10:13 PM
Kawai RX-2 and RX-2 BLAK
by myip
09/22/14 08:15 PM
UVi Grand Piano, cant get the MIDI Files help?
by JungleJim
09/22/14 06:23 PM
Who's Online
102 registered (ando, Anne'sson, AEMontoya, antony, 31 invisible), 1214 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76290 Members
42 Forums
157700 Topics
2316377 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission