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#2305674 - 07/22/14 11:15 PM Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!!
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
This is my recommendation for bending the piano's plain wire in an effort to 1) minimise falseness/false-beats, 2) reduce the amount of string levelling necessary for high-level voicing and damper work, and 3) prevent an earlier onset of the dreaded "capo-buzz!!!"

This procedure involves three bends--in specific directions--that control the direction/path of the wire's natural curvature.

NOTE: there are no false-beat causing twists/turns in the entire length of the wire (i.e., the coil is purposefully wound on the side of the natural curvature of the wire--not with/under the natural curvature; this is more common/easier, but then introduces a twist when later installed onto the tuning pin).

Because the piano wires travel straighter, there is less need to level strings. This is a great benefit: bending/whacking anywhere in the speaking length of a string--especially at/around the termination points--will create falseness in tone. So, if you don't have to do it, don't! Manhandling piano wire may be a viable persuasion in the real world, but there is no place for that kind of brutality in high-end musical instruments indented for concerts.smokin
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#2305681 - 07/22/14 11:35 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2048
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
So you advocate placing the coil 90 degrees from the natural curve. Have I git that correct.

If you shape the capo bar to a definite V with a 0.5mm string contact point-no capo buzzes ever.
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#2305692 - 07/23/14 12:41 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Bend #1: in the middle, around at the side (90 degrees) to the natural curvature of the wire.


NOT like this: the natural curvature of the wire! This is a much more common approach.

A bend with the natural direction of the wire would result in no twists on the right string, but string that wonders more in a R/L plane around the termination points; the 1/2 twist necessary to install the left wire onto the tuning pin would result in a slightly up/down and different R/L points of wondering at/around where the hammers/dampers contact the strings. This one, seemingly insignificant, bend of the wire introduces a tremendous amount of unnecessary and unwanted chaos into a systems with a direct affect on the ability to do high-level voicing (i.e., hammer-to-string fitting) and damper work.

Bends #2&3: the becket bends, around at the side (90 degrees) to the natural curvature of the wire. The end result should resemble a UU/CC, with both ends pointing straight up/down.

Now, that, is a happy piano wire, indeed! grin
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#2305698 - 07/23/14 12:58 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
So you advocate placing the coil 90 degrees from the natural curve.
Yep.

Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
If you shape the capo bar to a definite V with a 0.5mm string contact point-no capo buzzes ever.
I haven't experienced enough of the 'ever' part for myself yet, but I do assume your statement to be true (i.e., based on my limited experiences with shaping polishing so far).

I don't know how much longer this approach might hold off a potential buzz, but it could/should help, at least a little--it will depend on the angles involved, the weight of the hammers, how much the piano is played, and how much string levelling occurs (i.e., pulling up to level strings, on a piano with a thick capo contact point, will make the problem worse; so, creating naturally more level/consistent strings in the (re)string process--by reducing the need to aggressively level the strings--should prolong the onset of an early capo buzz).

Of course, the real problem should be addressed at the capo at the next restringing.
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#2305740 - 07/23/14 02:49 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Thanks for the pics. The descriptions are clear.
Is not it reducing the amount of possible massaging up later?

Do you still massage with heat your strings ? (I find it again yesterday to thicken and clear the tone on some replaced strings on an old Boesenderfer.)
A hammer shank suffice.

I will test your process soon.
So bend with pliers for the one around pin?
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#2305781 - 07/23/14 07:38 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
David Jenson Offline
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Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Maine
Hmmmmm. I use the "traditional" method and my wire seems to be very happy with no weeping or wailing that I can hear. There's a slight chance that I'm a bit insensitive. In the future I'll have to take a little more time to try to ascertain the happiness of my wire installations. If false beats are any indication, the stuff is pretty happy.
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#2305782 - 07/23/14 07:40 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Herr Weiss Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 133
Loc: New York, N.Y.
Thanks A443, I'm learning a lot!


HW

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#2305785 - 07/23/14 07:48 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
RonTuner Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1658
Loc: Chicagoland
I must be missing something... I don't see how either method is different when it comes to adding any twist to the string, as long as you control the plane of the coil created during winding. I do see the wandering left/right issue, so will give this a try!

Thanks

Ron Koval
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#2305805 - 07/23/14 08:52 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
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Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
Is your statement in the "fascinating video" thread, that "unfortunataly, no string leveling" an exaggeration to make a point or a literal statement?

With bends that agree, do you do any massaging, gentle shaping of the catenary bend, minor leveling.

I must say, regarding leveling, that I have always taken the "Leveling" that high level techs claim as a requirement to be something whose attainment exceeds the physical limitations of steel wire. As in, aggressive corrective leveling probably lasts about as long as it takes for the check to clear. In addition to this, in my own rebuilding work, when string level needs serious correction, that correction without pushing the wire past its elastic limit, is often unattainable. I no longer beat up on out-of-level strings.

I also think that the requirements of leveling become more critical when hard heavy hammers are used on boards which are not very responsive, new or old. With my boards, which are quite responsive, have reasonable to low tension scales, cold pressed light hammers, minor leveling inconsistencies just are not the problem they are in systems that are pushed to the high performance limit. As in anything that is referred to high performance, high performance always means on the knife edge of dysfunction, hence the need for super anal, yet far from long term leveling.

Thoughts?

Jim Ialeggio
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#2305819 - 07/23/14 09:18 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
David Jenson Offline
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Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Maine
Something that has some bearing here is that the OP has given no indication of any level of affiliation or level of experience with the piano service field, or the piano industry in general.
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#2305841 - 07/23/14 10:03 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: RonTuner]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: RonTuner
I must be missing something... I don't see how either method is different when it comes to adding any twist to the string, as long as you control the plane of the coil created during winding.
How are you making your coil?

Many people wind the wire around the tuning pin with their hands/fingers, and then whack that pin into the block, or transfer the coil to a pin already in the block. When using this method, the coil follows the path of least resistance and goes along the natural curvature of the wire. Using the 'traditional' first-bend orientation means the left coil will be on the wrong side and requires a 180 degree inversion.

If you have a jig that helps makes a neat coil, it is possible to use the 'traditional' first bend, as long as you make the coil on the left string going in the reverse direction (i.e., back against the natural direction of the wire). However, you'd still have the problems of wires taking different paths as they transverse different contact points.
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#2305857 - 07/23/14 10:24 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2048
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I certainly hope this thread does not devolve into a comparison of professional "genitalia". I really do not give a dam about a long winded polemic regarding respective Curriculum Vitae.

Back to topic,
I do find that string leveling by working slight vertical bends in the wire is very stable over time once the string creep has settled down. As you get into the note 60's range and above-most of the phase fitting of unisons must be done at the strike surface of the hammer.
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#2305866 - 07/23/14 10:44 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: David Jenson]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: David Jenson
Hmmmmm. I use the "traditional" method and my wire seems to be very happy with no weeping or wailing that I can hear. There's a slight chance that I'm a bit insensitive. In the future I'll have to take a little more time to try to ascertain the happiness of my wire installations. If false beats are any indication, the stuff is pretty happy.
In the past, I have used the term 'false-beat' to describe any unwanted falseness in the tone of the piano wire--whether or not they actually create "beats." Some languages focus on "string falseness"--in contrast to actual false-beats--while others prefer to differentiate between falseness and false-beats in their terminology. The defining line between the two terms, like string falseness, is somewhat blurry.

Falseness includes issues where the pitch (i.e., the multiple frequencies of the different partials) does not remain predictably stable. When partials begin deviating abnormally from their expected behaviour, the level of falseness begins to subjectively increase. A good tone is one that remains stable: a tone that wavers back-and-forth (i.e., speeds up and slows down), or one that falls/raises as its decays is the main issue that I hear in string falseness. It doesn't have to be as bad as a "false-beats" to register aurally as "string falseness."
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Klavierbaukünstler des Erwachens
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Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com

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#2305961 - 07/23/14 01:21 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
gynnis Offline
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Registered: 02/16/14
Posts: 121
Loc: Florida, Connecticut
I'm sure glad harpsichords don't have this problem since every string is terminated separately. Of course harpsichords break strings if you look at them funny.
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#2306034 - 07/23/14 04:03 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: gynnis]
SMHaley Offline
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Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 610
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: gynnis
I'm sure glad harpsichords don't have this problem since every string is terminated separately. Of course harpsichords break strings if you look at them funny.


Quite true!!
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#2306036 - 07/23/14 04:07 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
SMHaley Offline
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Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 610
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: A443
...how much the piano is played, and how much string levelling occurs (i.e., pulling up to level strings, on a piano with a thick capo contact point, will make the problem worse...


Are you saying that you only pull up when doing string leveling?
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Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
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#2306042 - 07/23/14 04:19 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Olek]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: Olek
Is not it reducing the amount of possible massaging up later?
I believe this to be the case. When the capo is level, and the wire is installed properly, I find there there is no need for any levelling (i.e., the wires are close enough). If I really want it to be absolutely perfect, I will lightly massage upwards with something wooden...if I absolutely have to.

Originally Posted By: Olek
So bend with pliers for the one around pin?
I use two needle nose pliers to make the first bend--this keeps the wire curvatures in alignment. Then I make the becket bends, then insert into a coil maker/winder jig/tool.
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Klavierbaukünstler des Erwachens
...expecter of the best, 'gunslinger' to the rest!
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com

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#2306043 - 07/23/14 04:19 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: A443
Originally Posted By: David Jenson
Hmmmmm. I use the "traditional" method and my wire seems to be very happy with no weeping or wailing that I can hear. There's a slight chance that I'm a bit insensitive. In the future I'll have to take a little more time to try to ascertain the happiness of my wire installations. If false beats are any indication, the stuff is pretty happy.
In the past, I have used the term 'false-beat' to describe any unwanted falseness in the tone of the piano wire--whether or not they actually create "beats." Some languages focus on "string falseness"--in contrast to actual false-beats--while others prefer to differentiate between falseness and false-beats in their terminology. The defining line between the two terms, like string falseness, is somewhat blurry.

Falseness includes issues where the pitch (i.e., the multiple frequencies of the different partials) does not remain predictably stable. When partials begin deviating abnormally from their expected behaviour, the level of falseness begins to subjectively increase. A good tone is one that remains stable: a tone that wavers back-and-forth (i.e., speeds up and slows down), or one that falls/raises as its decays is the main issue that I hear in string falseness. It doesn't have to be as bad as a "false-beats" to register aurally as "string falseness."


the tone "purity" is something noticeable, that can be recorded and also graphed. So probably you will have more data to support your claim.

out of curiosity, is it something you noticed in a factory ?
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#2306046 - 07/23/14 04:22 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: A443
Originally Posted By: Olek
Is not it reducing the amount of possible massaging up later?
I believe this to be the case. When the capo is level, and the wire is installed properly, I find there there is no need for any levelling (i.e., the wires are close enough). If I really want it to be absolutely perfect, I will lightly massage upwards with something wooden...if I absolutely have to.

Originally Posted By: Olek
So bend with pliers for the one around pin?
I use two needle nose pliers to make the first bend--this keeps the wire curvatures in alignment. Then I make the becket bends, then insert into a coil maker/winder jig/tool.


Thanks, the missing part is that wire need to be massaged and heated, visibly. this is not only to stabilize by stretching, the tone color change for a hotter, more silky one.



Edited by Olek (07/23/14 04:23 PM)
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#2306064 - 07/23/14 04:50 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: SMHaley]
A443 Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: SMHaley
Originally Posted By: A443
...how much the piano is played, and how much string levelling occurs (i.e., pulling up to level strings, on a piano with a thick capo contact point, will make the problem worse...
Are you saying that you only pull up when doing string leveling?
No, that statement was referring to what increases the problem of capo buzzing/noise. Aggressively pulling up on the wire, because of the resultant decreased space between the string and the capo, worsens that problem.

I'm saying any deformation in the speaking length is not a good idea: it causes falseness in the string's tone.

If it is a new wire, installed in the way I outlined, pushing down doesn't do anything. If I am working with someone else's work, however, my procedure it to push down first (i.e., since it is common for technicians to yank upwards when levelling)--if pushing back down is not enough--only then do I pull up. But, again, any of these procedures is likely to cause a deterioration in the tone.

I don't have enough experience/data to say whether or not massaging the string with friction has a +/- effect on string falseness. However, if I had to, I rather do this than aggressive bends/impacts. But, I still maintain that it is best to leave the strings alone, and make small changes at the hammer/damper.
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#2306073 - 07/23/14 05:09 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: A443


I'm saying any deformation in the speaking length is not a good idea: it causes falseness in the string's tone.

Yes certainly , and for massaging the wire must be tense and at pitch.

Honestly I was doing when mounting new strings but without making a relation with tone quality, less false beats, etc.

Just confirmed that lately on individual strings.

It is easy to test by yourself.

The tone do not loose partials as when tapping on bridges for instance.

The same with the pin's tapping, I like it. and it make tapping in front or on the bridge not very efficient in the long run.
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#2306098 - 07/23/14 06:20 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
David Jenson Offline
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Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
I certainly hope this thread does not devolve into a comparison of professional "genitalia". I really do not give a dam about a long winded polemic regarding respective Curriculum Vitae.

'Too late. I fear two participants are off dancing in the either of diminishing returns and ethereal minutiae.
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#2306100 - 07/23/14 06:25 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Chris Leslie Offline
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Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 624
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Thanks A443. I always wondered whether the orientation of the bend matters. I still do, but I least I know that others think about it.
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#2306191 - 07/23/14 09:38 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
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Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
I played around with this some today...it makes a lot sense, in terms of a way to get the string level agreeing right off the mark, and the elimination of twist.

So I made a couple of trial coils and hitch bends. I have attempted for some time to get the natural position of the coil on the pin to to drop in without twist, but I must say, that its often hard to read just where the wire thinks its natural curve wants to be. Like today, of the 2 coils per wire, bent at the hitch as you show 443, I still often get one coil sitting just right, and the other canted maybe 15-20 deg. It seems like it has some way to go before it hits Arledge's 45deg false beat generation, but it will take some attention and messing about to be really consistent on the coil angle.

Its a good idea, I think, and will definitely string this way on a belly coming up for stringing in August.

Jim Ialeggio
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#2306208 - 07/23/14 10:48 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 610
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: A443


I'm saying any deformation in the speaking length is not a good idea: it causes falseness in the string's tone...
....my procedure it to push down first (i.e., since it is common for technicians to yank upwards when levelling)--if pushing back down is not enough--only then do I pull up.


Interesting... I do similarly, lowering before pushing or pulling upward.
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#2306301 - 07/24/14 05:27 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: gynnis]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: gynnis
I'm sure glad harpsichords don't have this problem since every string is terminated separately. Of course harpsichords break strings if you look at them funny.


Is not it mostly if you lower their tension? (plus age, indeed).
Any idea on the stress on bronze and steel wire here?
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#2306338 - 07/24/14 08:28 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Ed Foote Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1160
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
I think you are going to a lot of trouble for nothing, It is a simple matter to wind the first coil in the direction of the curvature, and then, after placing the wire in the bridge pins, go around the hitch pin while reversing the curvature. It is a simple technique that shouldn't take more than two or three attempts to master. You have to change the curvature as you bend the wire around the pin. This makes the returning string lie in the same orientation as the first, and all of the twist in the wire takes place behind the bridge at the hitch pin.
I have intentionally installed wire with 180 and 360 degree twists in them and found no false beats, so I don't think a twist is any sure recipe for a false beat. Far more often, it is the loose bridge pin, or the overstretched wire commonly found in new high-end American pianos.
regards,

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#2306371 - 07/24/14 09:11 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
Ed Foote,

Have you installed wire twisted at Arledge's 45deg, which is what I see as the issue to be avoided? This is the twist that I find most likely to happen if a clear protocol is not established to avoid it.

Jim Ialeggio
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advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
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#2306374 - 07/24/14 09:17 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Ed Foote]
bkw58 Online   content

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Registered: 03/14/09
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Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
Greetings,
... It is a simple matter to wind the first coil in the direction of the curvature, and then, after placing the wire in the bridge pins, go around the hitch pin while reversing the curvature. It is a simple technique that shouldn't take more than two or three attempts to master. You have to change the curvature as you bend the wire around the pin. This makes the returning string lie in the same orientation as the first, and all of the twist in the wire takes place behind the bridge at the hitch pin...


+1
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#2306397 - 07/24/14 10:08 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
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When I think of "smiling unsion" I wonder iof it could not be advantageous to be attentive of the curvature by making the 2 outer strings going the same direction, and the center one the opposite.

After leveling , massaging etc, this will not be as marked, but I think the wire may keep the tendency to stabilize in that phasing shape (center string waving opposed of the 2 external ones)

Makes me think that if any perceptible effect it must be more due to the 3 strings than to one only (unless you mute the other, when you pluck one string the tone depends also of the 2 other)

45° is where the wire have the less clean clamping on the bridge, "rubbing" on the wood and the pin in opposed directions , so I understand this can be detrimental. it may "twist" the wave orientation sooner than when vertical or horizontal, with a similar effect as an insecure bridge pin (?)

A light hop at the base of the pin is enough to create a false beat, wood contact must be limited to the max I suppose.

High motion camera, very necessary here, to see if the wire is allowed to move behind the bend in some cases.







Edited by Olek (07/24/14 10:12 AM)
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#2306438 - 07/24/14 12:02 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Olek]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olek
When I think of "smiling unsion" I wonder iof it could not be advantageous to be attentive of the curvature by making the 2 outer strings going the same direction, and the center one the opposite.
I had briefly considered a similar concept. I thought: it could be advantageous if one could control a slightly sharpening tone in the decay. There are some psychoacoustical benefits to that kind of approach--especially if it were to go along with a specific style of unison tuning (e.g., ++0, +00, etc.). It might be possible to control this with specific curvature orientations.

I haven't travelled down that road of experimentation yet, because getting all the strings in the same plane--to eliminate the need for aggressive levelling--has become paramount in my consideration to eliminate falseness/false-beats in the tone (i.e., levelling can/will introduce falseness with the typical american approach to the madness mad).

However, with the individually tied-off single strings (e.g., many european pianos), a slightly different string orientation for the left string would be an approach that might be worthwhile to at least look into for more control over the tonal shape and projection.

Since my objectives have been to install straight wires on both sides, I haven't really yet observed how a 5 degree change in curvature orientation or a 5 degree coil orientation effects the tone (i.e., if I bent a wire inconsistently, I simply made another one). I've spent the entirety of my focus on choosing a straight orientation. In the beginning, it is not easy to read the wire to see exactly how and where to make the bends, but with enough practice, the skill can be mastered to produce consistent visual/tonal results. 3hearts
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#2306456 - 07/24/14 01:03 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
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Wow that is a brainstorming session there.

Not only Americans can be somehow brutal on wire.

As I learned, for vertical pianos, you take an old transmission lever (behind the pedals) of an old vertical piano (wooden lever type)- you fix on its end a small bar to make a T shape.

Then you stand in front of the piano, push on the T with your stomach (and weight, the beer drinkers have some advantage on that part) , then massage up and down the wire unison by unison until the wire is heated enough (which is fast)

The wire is not supposed to be deformed here, or it will degrade, but in mediums the stress factor is very low usually so the stretch can be large.

bass strings are then mounted, if not all the lower tenor wires have to be massaged before mounting the basses (which I do generally).

It is too soon to ascertain the tonal change at that point, that is why that aspect escaped me . But if you have a few replaced strings on some pianos, the experience is easy to do, with a hammer shank for instance.

That "heat process "is officially a stabilization method.

Regards


BTW to do lightly or avoid with Paulello wire, anyway look at the stress factor level before going on..





Edited by Olek (07/24/14 02:22 PM)
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#2306478 - 07/24/14 01:58 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
WilliamTruitt Offline
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I've been reading and following this thread, and I have given a little bit of thought to what I think is trying to be accomplished, which is to have a coil on the tuning pin in the pinblock in the piano, without any twist to the wire. So it got me thinking about stringing a bit. That is something I have done for the past forty years, the way most everybody does it, by hand using a tuning pin crank to make the coil and then driving the tuning pin into the pinblock through the plate.

I got thinking about alternative methods of stringing. Long story short, I looked up the Sciortino insta coiler, and watched a video on how it is used. Here's the thing: The tuning pins are all driven into the pinblock beforehand to a set height. The becket hole is straight out towards the bridge (or 90 degrees to the stretcher). Then the end of the wire is then fed through the becket, the tool is placed over the tuning pin, and then 2 1/2 coils are wound around the tuning pin while in place. Then the wire is fed around the hitch pin, back under the capo or agraffe, cut to length and then fed through the becket and turned as before.

It seems to me that, unless the stringer were applying some restraining force, any twist in the wire would be relieved before the wire goes into the becket. Further, I cannot think of any forces further applied in the remaining act of stringing that would introduce any twist in the wire (that would not be relieved)

I have never used the insta coiler, so I can't speak from the experience of usage. I would be interested in the comments of others.

Will Truitt
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#2306504 - 07/24/14 02:39 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
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I am interested to hear what people have experienced with that tool.

I like the idea to have all the pins inserted and +- leveled, then I like to make tight coils from the start, with a T hammer or a crank (the T hammer is very convenient)

I could do the same with the usual sawed pin to make the coil outside the piano (installed with round nose pliers then)

I do not figure if it is faster with that method or no. Less tools handling is usually a good thing indeed.
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#2306538 - 07/24/14 03:30 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: jim ialeggio]
Ed Foote Offline
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Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Ed Foote,
Have you installed wire twisted at Arledge's 45deg, which is what I see as the issue to be avoided? This is the twist that I find most likely to happen if a clear protocol is not established to avoid it.
Jim Ialeggio


Hi Jim,
Yes. I decided to destructively test some of my suspicions and theories on a piano that was coming down anyway. I talked to James about his and Jim Ellis's findings, and found that they were pretty well on the mark. I twisted a couple of single strings a full 360 degrees, and upon pulling back up to pitch, sounded just as fine. I put some in that were curved up and some down, some sideways, etc. I tried getting the curvature to mimic what they did with their string lathe, but I found it difficult to actually install the curvature at 45 degrees. The natural way to coil is with the curve, and then the pin is at 90 degrees. I had to intentionally begin the becket with the pin at what was, to me, an unnatural angle to the wire.

What I do to avoid this when stringing is to wind the coil so the curvature is dead on 90 degrees to the pin. Thus, when the pin is then put into the block, the curve of the wire is to the left,(bass, as this is for grands). This curve is then taken to the bridge pins and laid amongst them while maintaining the curve horizontally. This causes the approach to the hitch pin to have the curvature going away from the direction I want it to, i.e. clockwise around the pin. So, I use the distortion that is going to happen as the wire bends around the hitch pin to also allow me to twist the wire 180 degrees as I bend it "backwards" around the hitch. I pull firmly and as the wire is pulled through the bridge pins, they tend to anchor the orientation as I bring the curve backwards around the pin, the long end of the wire is rotated forward as the wire forms its bend. It seems that as the wire is bending 180 degrees, it's temporary plasticity allows an easy reversal of the curvature.
Done properly, I will see two curvatures nesting with one another before I cut the wire and feed it through the agraffe. Then, I make sure that the curvature is 90 degrees to the pin and wind it on. When that pin goes into the block, it will be holding the curvature horizontally, which is where i leave my strings when I install them.

I get a lot less false beating than new factory work...
Regards,

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#2306543 - 07/24/14 03:32 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Olek]
SMHaley Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olek
Originally Posted By: gynnis
I'm sure glad harpsichords don't have this problem since every string is terminated separately. Of course harpsichords break strings if you look at them funny.


Is not it mostly if you lower their tension? (plus age, indeed).
Any idea on the stress on bronze and steel wire here?


Less about age and more about lower tension. I used to have a chart with stresses of the wire. Iron wire was also used in the treble of many harpsichords.
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#2306596 - 07/24/14 04:36 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
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Ed,


Thanks for your description. Unless I'm understanding your description wrong, which of course is entirely possible ( pictures are really helpful in something this simple confused ), it sounds as if the end goal of what 443 and you are proposing achieves the same goal by different means. The goal being the natural curvature of the 2 sides of the wire nesting, ie curving in the same direction, and the coil sitting 90 deg to the natural curvature so the inserted pin is not inducing any extra twist.

Have I read your description correctly???

Jim I
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#2306606 - 07/24/14 04:52 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
A443 Offline
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My main objective--with the way that I install strings--is to achieve greater consistency in the string levelling, without having to touch/adjust anything in the speaking length of the string (i.e., because I know THAT process creates falseness/false-beats in the tone). I also happens to be the case, that zero twists in the system also eliminates much of the falseness.

Ed Foote, when you where testing the different twists/turns, did you observe the lack of a "false-beat" or did you observe with an ETD the change in tonal stability over time(i.e., speeding-up/slowing-down and drifting higher/lower throughout the sound envelope)? The later, is a matter of falseness, and is the attention to detail that I am actually talking about, monitoring with an ETD, and observing.

My methodology NEVER produces actual false-beats, as is heard from the NY factory. Why? It is because I am not levelling the strings (i.e., deforming them) and I never "seat" the string at the bridge. <----deformations are where most false-beats come from (i.e., it is NOT loose bridge pins; if it were, vice grips would temporarily eliminate/diagnose the problem). Wire twists, in my experience, is where falseness over time is created. There are other issues that can cause false-beats, but those problems need to be addressed where those problems lie.
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#2306615 - 07/24/14 05:00 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: jim ialeggio]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Thanks for your description. Unless I'm understanding your description wrong, which of course is entirely possible ( pictures are really helpful in something this simple confused ), it sounds as if the end goal of what 443 and you are proposing achieves the same goal by different means. The goal being the natural curvature of the 2 sides of the wire nesting, ie curving in the same direction, and the coil sitting 90 deg to the natural curvature so the inserted pin is not inducing any extra twist.

Have I read your description correctly???
I think it is somewhat similar in terms of twist, except the planes/paths that the wires travel in are different)

Ed, are your coils both done in the direction of the natural curvature, or is the second coil against the natural curvature (i.e., you start with the left string, coil with the curvature, backwards [against the natural curvature] around the hitch pin, and now the natural curvature for the right string is in the direction of a C [what do you do here: 1)follow the natural curvature with the coli and flip 180 degrees, or 2) make the coil against the natural curvature of the wire]?
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#2306689 - 07/24/14 07:54 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Ed Foote Offline
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Originally Posted By: A443
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
Thanks for your description. Unless I'm understanding your description wrong, which of course is entirely possible ( pictures are really helpful in something this simple confused ), it sounds as if the end goal of what 443 and you are proposing achieves the same goal by different means. The goal being the natural curvature of the 2 sides of the wire nesting, ie curving in the same direction, and the coil sitting 90 deg to the natural curvature so the inserted pin is not inducing any extra twist.

Have I read your description correctly???
I think it is somewhat similar in terms of twist, except the planes/paths that the wires travel in are different)

Ed, are your coils both done in the direction of the natural curvature, or is the second coil against the natural curvature (i.e., you start with the left string, coil with the curvature, backwards [against the natural curvature] around the hitch pin, and now the natural curvature for the right string is in the direction of a C [what do you do here: 1)follow the natural curvature with the coli and flip 180 degrees, or 2) make the coil against the natural curvature of the wire]?


Yes, Jim, that is the procedure. It was taught by Bill Garlick and ( I think), Ernie Juhn in a class on restringing at North Bennett in 1975. The emphasis was on having our pianos look like the 60 year old Ivers and Pond when it was finally restrung. We had cut the wires on a big Ivers and Pond upright and all of them curved the same way. Just another layer of consistency.

Both coils have the curvature in the same direction. I bend the wire around the hitch while giving it slightly more than 1/2 twist. It comes out with the curvature laying in the same plane and direction as the first wire. I tried to intentionally make the two legs of the wire have opposite curvatures. It is difficult to have the wire stay in the same plane when being bent back against its natural curvature. Careless rounding of the hitch pin will leave that curvature in all sorts of orientations. Intentionally twisting it as it is bent can bring create consistent, properly oriented, curvatures.

Inre A443's criticism of bending wires at their terminations: after some years of treating recording and performance instruments with this, I have not found this to create falseness, at all. It is often the case that a slight, sideways push of the wire into the bridge pin can change things for the better. I live with my work at the school, and most of our concert instruments have less than vertical agraffe drilling. I have always used the strings' leveling before carving the hammers into an irregular mess, and have not found any of the downsides mentioned.

Agraffe buzzes will usually go away with a sharp strike, straight down into the topstring, directly behind the capo. I actually broke a string doing this, once, many years ago. This has little to do with bending wire in the speaking length. The small deviations of agraffe holes are more easily addressed with the slight lifting of wire than any other way, and I have yet to see the procedure do anything but improve the unison. It also address the problem of una cord requirements. If you have a low string in the middle of the tri-chord, what are you gonna do?
Regards,

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#2306766 - 07/24/14 11:57 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
A443 Offline
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I was originally taught to do everything in the way that Ed Foote describes. I did that approach for many years. In the end, I choose to deviate from that path for a number of very specific reasons (i.e., it didn't happen haphazardly).

Since I monitor and document the falseness of the strings over time [using the Verituner]--which helps me gauge when new plain wire would improve the sound--it naturally caught my attention when, after levelling/seating procedures occurred, the falseness of the wire worsened by noticeable and measurable amounts. Having kept detailed recorders in an institutional setting, like that, is what allowed me to notice the correlation between the brutal attacks on the strings and an overall degradation of tone quality (i.e., increased wavering in the pitch).

The combination of that knowledge, with the way I bend the wire and orientate the coils--to avoid any/all twists--is what allows me to create a very pure tone with bare minimal distortions/falseness and zero false-beats. If string falseness doesn't disappear with the wire installed using this methodology, I can fairly confidently sate: is not a wire problem, it is something else in the system!

I've been bending the wire like this for around the hitch-pin for about a decade now: shocked

The natural curvature of both wires running parallel makes installation much easier. thumb
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#2306775 - 07/25/14 12:22 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
BDB Online   content
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I bend the same way using round-nosed pliers. It is easier to thread a replacement string under the capo and damper that way. A quick bend the opposite direction lets the wire hold to the hitch pin without a clamp, and directs it down toward the plate. Since strings usually break when I have only a short time until the house is open, doing it quickly is important. I orient it the same way even if it is a tied string.
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#2306784 - 07/25/14 01:26 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: BDB]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: BDB
It is easier to thread a replacement string under the capo and damper that way.
I think that was the original reason I switched to this kind of bend: it was faster and much easier to install. It it so happens, there are other benefits too! whome
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#2306902 - 07/25/14 10:12 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
David Jenson Offline
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#2306942 - 07/25/14 11:26 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: David Jenson]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Jenson
Are you a piano industry professional?
Apparently?
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#2306972 - 07/25/14 12:43 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
WilliamTruitt Offline
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A443, thanks for the video. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words - in this case, it does not need to use any. Very clear what you are doing

Do you start your stringing by making your bend first as illustrated using a length of wire that is somewhat overlong, allowing your to cut each side exactly to length, and then coiling them? Or do you coil one side first and drive it into the pinblock, come out the proper distance, make bend as illustrated above, and them come around to the other side?

Will
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#2307110 - 07/25/14 06:25 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
A443 Offline
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When replacing a string, I make the first bend, install the wire, cut to length, make the coil, and transfer to the tuning pin.

When restringing, I usually make all the cuts, bends, and coils outside of the piano for optimal alignment and control (i.e., for the capo section). This allows me to accurately bend the wire/coil in an orientation that helps ensure the tone is as pure as possible. cool
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#2307119 - 07/25/14 07:00 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
WilliamTruitt Offline
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Thanks, A443, that's what I thought and it makes sense.

Will
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#2307140 - 07/25/14 07:42 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
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Originally Posted By: A443
I was originally taught to do everything in the way that Ed Foote describes. I did that approach for many years. In the end, I choose to deviate from that path for a number of very specific reasons (i.e., it didn't happen haphazardly).

Since I monitor and document the falseness of the strings over time [using the Verituner]--which helps me gauge when new plain wire would improve the sound--it naturally caught my attention when, after levelling/seating procedures occurred, the falseness of the wire worsened by noticeable and measurable amounts. Having kept detailed recorders in an institutional setting, like that, is what allowed me to notice the correlation between the brutal attacks on the strings and an overall degradation of tone quality (i.e., increased wavering in the pitch).

The combination of that knowledge, with the way I bend the wire and orientate the coils--to avoid any/all twists--is what allows me to create a very pure tone with bare minimal distortions/falseness and zero false-beats. If string falseness doesn't disappear with the wire installed using this methodology, I can fairly confidently sate: is not a wire problem, it is something else in the system!

I've been bending the wire like this for around the hitch-pin for about a decade now: shocked

The natural curvature of both wires running parallel makes installation much easier. thumb


Cool video, thanks,

A question : how long do you allow for the new strings to have a start of their "final tone" ?

I always have find the strings too "wild" until massaged.
SO I do not give them the time to settle in their natural position.

I will give a try and comparatives too, soon.
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#2307161 - 07/25/14 08:45 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Olek]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olek
I always have find the strings too "wild" until massaged.
SO I do not give them the time to settle in their natural position.
My policy: "don't touch the strings!" Of course, in secret, I do what I have to do to make the adjustments that need to be made.

I think...maybe...the way Olek massages the string, possibly helps to even-out the small twist/rotation that occur as the strings pass around bearing points at the bridge.

What Olek might be experiencing could have more to do with the varying degrees of horizontal orientation as the wire goes around the bridge-pin (i.e., if the wire is not bending exactly with its natural curvature, there is a great risk to induce a temporary rotation when gong around a bearing point.

When the wires are installed with a downward curvature, the capo neatly shapes the wire into a smooth and nature looking S cure--which is not as disturbed by the R/L bridge bends, so there is most-likely less 'temporarily' rotation (i.e., it is at a 90 degrees plane= very stable).

I render my strings with agility. Because of that, any possible rotation, is probably already dealt with by the time I am done stabilise a new set of strings (i.e., by that time, my tone is already set, without any string massaging). I think Olek might find that there is less of a need to massage the strings with this other wire orientation. But, I don't know--he could be hearing something else entirely...
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#2307325 - 07/26/14 11:01 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: jim ialeggio]
A443 Offline
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Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
I also think that the requirements of leveling become more critical when hard heavy hammers are used on boards which are not very responsive, new or old. With my boards, which are quite responsive, have reasonable to low tension scales, cold pressed light hammers, minor leveling inconsistencies just are not the problem they are in systems that are pushed to the high performance limit. As in anything that is referred to high performance, high performance always means on the knife edge of dysfunction, hence the need for super anal, yet far from long term leveling.

Thoughts?
Sorry, jim ialeggio, I didn't mean to ignore your question.

My experience agrees with what you wrote: the lighter the hammer, the less of an issue minor string levelling issues are--even in terms of concert work! It doesn't matter as much as it does with the modern overly-heavy hammers, so why risk the additional falseness of the tone with pulling/pushing on the string?!? If the agraffe or plate orientation is the problem, fix that, but leave the poor strings in peace.

And you are right, IMHO: sting levelling is not permanent, which means it needs to be done over-and-over-and-over again, further worsening the problem of falseness on concert instruments over time. <-----yet that, oddly enough, is what many manufactures recommend!

Piano owners: NEVER let a technician pound/tap on your piano strings--help stop the madness!
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#2307329 - 07/26/14 11:13 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Loc: Seattle, WA USA
If you shape your V-bar to a 0.5mm string contact point with the profile to a definite V shape and chamfer the string holes in the agraffe to a similar shape-string leveling by making slight vertical bends in the wire will not produce false beats. Plus you will never have string buzzes there either and the strings will last longer because you have perfected the pivot termination conditions.

I have a nearly forty year history of pianos with the string terminations configured this way.
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#2307331 - 07/26/14 11:20 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
443,

What is your actual stringing process? You said you like to cut, bend, coil on the bench or at least outside the piano. In order to cut, I have to have the wire bent at the hitch, and placed in the piano to measure where to cut. Which means the extra steps of placing the wire in the piano to measure and cut, removing coiling and returning the string to the piano.

How do you cut outside the piano....or rather how do you measure outside the piano...seems like a pain

Jim
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advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
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#2307338 - 07/26/14 11:39 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
kennyz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 16
Loc: N.E Pennsylvania
Ed, what do you use to chamfer your agraffes, and do you do this by hand or on a drill press? A close up pic would be great!

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#2307341 - 07/26/14 11:50 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21506
Loc: Oakland
When I string, I make the bend in the wire, hook it around the hitchpin, and cut the other end of the wire to length. Then I trim the first end. If there are agraffes, I cut both ends and trim them with the wire in place. I string from bass to treble, so if I make a mistake with the bend and there is not enough length, there is a chance I can use the string later.
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#2307353 - 07/26/14 12:11 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
If you shape your V-bar to a 0.5mm string contact point with the profile to a definite V shape and chamfer the string holes in the agraffe to a similar shape-string leveling by making slight vertical bends in the wire will not produce false beats. Plus you will never have string buzzes there either and the strings will last longer because you have perfected the pivot termination conditions.

I have a nearly forty year history of pianos with the string terminations configured this way.


your points are assessed and described by Fenner , also. (without going into iron resistance)
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#2307354 - 07/26/14 12:13 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: A443
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
I also think that the requirements of leveling become more critical when hard heavy hammers are used on boards which are not very responsive, new or old. With my boards, which are quite responsive, have reasonable to low tension scales, cold pressed light hammers, minor leveling inconsistencies just are not the problem they are in systems that are pushed to the high performance limit. As in anything that is referred to high performance, high performance always means on the knife edge of dysfunction, hence the need for super anal, yet far from long term leveling.

Thoughts?
Sorry, jim ialeggio, I didn't mean to ignore your question.

My experience agrees with what you wrote: the lighter the hammer, the less of an issue minor string levelling issues are--even in terms of concert work! It doesn't matter as much as it does with the modern overly-heavy hammers, so why risk the additional falseness of the tone with pulling/pushing on the string?!? If the agraffe or plate orientation is the problem, fix that, but leave the poor strings in peace.

And you are right, IMHO: sting levelling is not permanent, which means it needs to be done over-and-over-and-over again, further worsening the problem of falseness on concert instruments over time. <-----yet that, oddly enough, is what many manufactures recommend!

Piano owners: NEVER let a technician pound/tap on your piano strings--help stop the madness!

After the 3 strings leveling passes done in Hamburg, the concert tech does not even carry a hook with him.

What do you call "long term ?" is 12 years enough ? That is +- what I am sure of.The coils are not the same, , not the small coils that many of us use, so the curve is larger.




Edited by Olek (07/26/14 12:15 PM)
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#2307844 - 07/27/14 03:48 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: jim ialeggio]
A443 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: Manywheres
Originally Posted By: jim ialeggio
How do you cut outside the piano....or rather how do you measure outside the piano...seems like a pain.
Yes, in fact, many of the things that I do are a pain and typically exist outside the confines of an economic system (i.e., the time involved is often not worth it in terms of money to most). That is what happens with an academic background: the freedom to experiment without having to produce. shocked I'd rather find perfection first, understand the system, and then work backwards to find time savers. This has always been my general approach to piano technology.

For a simple replacement string: I make the hitch-pin bend in the wire, insert it under the capo, invert it, and place it on the hitch-pin and between the bridge pins. I have a c.70mm guide made out of a rubber mute--that works with the cutters and method that I use--to produce 3 full turns on the pin. I cut each length based on the location of the pin; I pull the string tight before I cut. I remove the string, make the becket bend on each string, make the coils, and then reinstall. I can do it in the piano too, but I have to be REALLY careful to get the coil at the correct orientation. Slight rotations and twists in the wire do matter in terms of the tone over time (i.e., the decay and sustain). I use that hand-held coiler, but I should make one sometime that is is half the size so that it can be done in the piano with greater easier.

For restring, I will already have made a guide with a string that is marked at the different contact locations. In this case, I use that string to indicate to me how long everything needs to be and where to make the cuts. This method produces really consistent results in terms of the visuals (i.e., where the strings go into the tuning pin in relationship to each other). Everything is done outside the piano this way; the prepared strings are simply installed.
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#2307913 - 07/27/14 07:49 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
Ok, I see. I used to use the aluminum hand coiler, but as you say, it was a pain in the piano...too big. So I made one out of wooden dowel with a brass insert sleeve where the pin goes. The wooden dowel part is shorter than the commercial alum one so I can get as vertical as possible in the piano and close to the plate without mucking up the plate.

In the high treble, I just may try this outside the piano.

I'm curious what your guide string looks like...pic?

Jim Ialeggio
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advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#2307935 - 07/27/14 09:14 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21506
Loc: Oakland
I use a hand coiler. I hold the tuning pin in my hand and turn it with a crank, and it makes a coil!
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#2307942 - 07/27/14 09:36 PM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: BDB]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: BDB
I use a hand coiler. I hold the tuning pin in my hand and turn it with a crank, and it makes a coil!

'Works like a charm, and doesn't cost much. I look for the stupidest tuning pin in the box and use that one for my "dummie" pin.
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#2308016 - 07/28/14 05:12 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7532
Loc: France
When I think of it, the coiler in the piano would be better used with a pneumatic tool to turn the pin.

Anyway on new blocks.


Outside coilers make another tool to take in hand, so it does not go in the efficiency direction.
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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2317259 - 08/19/14 10:15 AM Re: Join the false-beat revolution: get your wires straight!!! [Re: A443]
Gadzar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1726
Loc: Mexico City
Originally Posted By: A443
I was originally taught to do everything in the way that Ed Foote describes. I did that approach for many years. In the end, I choose to deviate from that path for a number of very specific reasons (i.e., it didn't happen haphazardly).

Since I monitor and document the falseness of the strings over time [using the Verituner]--which helps me gauge when new plain wire would improve the sound--it naturally caught my attention when, after levelling/seating procedures occurred, the falseness of the wire worsened by noticeable and measurable amounts. Having kept detailed recorders in an institutional setting, like that, is what allowed me to notice the correlation between the brutal attacks on the strings and an overall degradation of tone quality (i.e., increased wavering in the pitch).

The combination of that knowledge, with the way I bend the wire and orientate the coils--to avoid any/all twists--is what allows me to create a very pure tone with bare minimal distortions/falseness and zero false-beats. If string falseness doesn't disappear with the wire installed using this methodology, I can fairly confidently sate: is not a wire problem, it is something else in the system!

I've been bending the wire like this for around the hitch-pin for about a decade now: shocked

The natural curvature of both wires running parallel makes installation much easier. thumb


Yesterday I installed 3 strings in an old C Bechstein vertical. I plied the strings as in this video and then made the coils before puting the string in the piano. It works nicely. No false beats at all.

A443 thanks for sharing.
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rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

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