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#230547 - 05/22/07 03:42 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
JohnEB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 754
Loc: Belgium
Update on my Chinese piano - I moved house last week, so the piano is in a new home now. The new room is quite different - smaller, lower ceiling. BUt the piano sounds great - yes it sounds louder, but not overpowering.

The best thing is that weak octave I mentioned seems to have been been cured - I'm not quite sure how but perhaps the different accoustics and resonances just mean the notes sing out a bit more. Don't really care - just happy! I would post pictures but my house is still full of boxes...
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#230548 - 05/23/07 06:52 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Kenny Blankenship Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 659
Loc: Northeast
Man, look at all the "little things" that need work on these suckers, someone is making some $$$. I guess you get what you pay for!
_________________________
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Selling anything anyone will buy as the "Walmartizisation of the industry continues. (Still making a fair living and still having clients like me)

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#230549 - 05/23/07 05:21 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Man, look at all the "little things" that need work on these suckers, someone is making some $$$. I guess you get what you pay for!
What a thoughtful, elegant and informative remarkk this is! From someone who in another thread claims:
 Quote:
I am a salesman and I play, I've spent most of my life educating "players" like yourself on how not to waste their money on cheap pianos, wherever they come from.
Anyone who does a search on this forum or the tuners-technicians forum for "little things" on any "Tier1,2,3........." will find tons of remarks similar to the ones made by the owners in this thread.

Or should all owners have claimed their piano is supreme without any faults or weaknesses? What would they then be accused off?

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#230550 - 05/23/07 08:08 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: Georgia, USA
Good point, Schwammerl.

Here's a post on the tuners forum about quite a few "little things" on a new Steinway grand.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/3/2699.html

Rickster
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#230551 - 05/24/07 09:26 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Margaret M:
So, is this a Chinese piano quality problem, or just a new piano problem?
[/b]
Yesterday over in the piano tech forum I read this absolutely wonderful post by Sam Casey, which I will take the liberty of copying and pasting here, because I think it is directly relevant to your question:

[From Sam Casey] "New pianos are new wire and wood. A piano is a organic instrument, a complex bit of wooden machinery under tremendous string pressure. The purchase of a piano is the beginning of a relationship and as all relationships, requires a bit a patience and forgiveness. New pianos are most vulnerable to funny sounds, tuning instability, sticking keys, etc. You should expect this for a year. I've never met a salesmen who had the guts to tell a customer the truth about a new piano's inherent tendency to problems and never met a customer who did not understand and accept the fact when I serviced their piano. It simple common sense. Work with your tuner and if he/she are competent you will have a instrument to last a life time." [/b]
I posted this on the first page of this thread, but it seems relevant here again. Kenny, I think that MOST new pianos, if not all of them, will have issues that have to be worked through. My M&H had sticky dampers and a buzz here and there during its first year. Does that make it a piece of &$*#& or bad purchase? I don't think so.

What we really need are data on whether Chinese pianos have more of these little issues than higher tier pianos. I sure don't know the answer to that question; maybe some of the techs do.
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#230552 - 05/25/07 01:47 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
JoeW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Portland OR
I bought a 52" George Steck one year ago, its my third piano, I think its about the best value for the $. I recently went back to the dealer and played a 1978 52" from a well known maker, I was really glad I didn't pay 2000.00 more for that piano. Mine has a much more consistant touch with a deeper richer tone. I did however play the new model of that piano and was very impressed. Its better then mine, but not that much better.

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#230553 - 05/25/07 12:10 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14037
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kenny Blankenship:
Man, look at all the "little things" that need work on these suckers, someone is making some $$$. I guess you get what you pay for! [/b]
Or, you could buy a Steinway, and have many of the same issues (probably with the exception of the tight centers) to deal with.

But one could sleep much better knowing they paid premium money for a premium product.
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#230554 - 05/25/07 06:41 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
I agree, all pianos, new, used, rebuilt, whatever, will always have small things that need attention. It's a production world and THINGS just aren't perfect. Even high end commodities that are hand built will have problems...The real truth will be in 50 years...will they just throw them away or rebuild them. The test of time!!! jm$0.2
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LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
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#230555 - 05/29/07 05:35 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
JoelB57 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
I own a Nordiska 6'1" baby grand. Had it about 16 months now and am very happy with it. Upon delivery I sensed the high-end was a little piercing and so, had my technician make some minor adjustments. Also, I did have one key which tended to stay down upon release but that too was easily remedied by the tech. I keep a dehumidifier in the room and humidity averages 40%. No problems with the tuning. The two times I've had it tuned the technician commented on how little adjusting was required.

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#230556 - 07/12/07 10:32 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
I brought back this thread to update my own piano's history. I also changed the title. It seemed the old thread title was seen by some as an attempt to unite owners of Chinese pianos. That was not the intent. I hope the new title is neutral enough to not give that impression.

I also thought bringing back the thread might encourage others to participate. I'm sure there have been member purchases in the intervening months. (Vince in Vegas comes to mind.) So if you have bought a Chinese piano recently, or had yours serviced for any issues, please report. Ground rules are in the opening post.


Nordiska 126 vertical, six months old, fairly heavy use.

Services just performed: tuning, voicing, replacement of the felt strips on the rail engaged by the practice pedal.

Previous service: two store-provided tunings.

I had been itching to get my hammers voiced for months, but wanted to wait until the piano settled in after it was delivered. I had gotten some referrals here on the tech forum, but when I contacted the referrals they were either too busy (long wait) or declined to work on a low-end piano. So I went with a tech I had used often in the past for my old piano, John Pasterczyk. I’d like to give a plug for John. His prices are moderate, he never hurries, and he’s very attentive to his customer’s requests. www.southbaypiano.com in the L.A. area.


Tuning: minimal work was required.

Regulation: none required. I had no complaints. John’s playing up and down the keyboard confirmed that everything was okay.

Voicing: John needled the shoulders a bit. He showed me tiny tracks that were already present on the shoulders of the hammers. I really couldn’t see them well (eyes not the best). He said that Abel (among other hammer makers) is using needling machines to pre-needle their hammers.

First he needled a few hammers and asked me to try those keys.. I could hear the difference and liked the change, so he needled the rest of the hammers accordingly. After I checked that, he offered to do more, but I want to go slowly with the hammers.

Practice rail felt strips: They were easily replaced. They had curled at the corners, causing the hammers adjacent to the scale breaks to strike without damping when the practice pedal was engaged.

Comments: John felt the pinblock was a good one to work with,: secure, but not overly tight. The voicing removed most of the brassy tone that the piano had always had. I’m sure more can be done to fine-tune the sound, but I don’t want to rush.

I’ve always felt my piano is best described as ‘serviceable’. Even among Chinese pianos, its price is low. A few days ago, I read a post by Rich Galassini where he stated that most Chinese pianos to this point have been ‘passable’, while some have been surprising. I think 'passable' is an even better description of my piano than ‘serviceable’. What I hope to do through careful attention is to bring it up a notch or two from being passable. Time will tell. So far, so good.

I’ve included a sound file here. Should you choose to listen, bear in mind:

1.) It’s Mp3 on a Microtrack with a single T-mike over the open cabinet top.
(raw sound)
2.) This is a very inexpensive piano
3.) The playing is a bit sloppy.
4.) The composer is of ill repute.
5.) The ringing phone you hear is not your own.
It’s on the recording.

sound file: http://www.box.net/shared/yu40zukafh
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#230557 - 07/12/07 10:43 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
glyptodont2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/07
Posts: 45
I sometimes have to play a Pearl River upright for my weekly lesson and don't care much for it.

There are a number of studios available at the music store, but with really only two choices. Some studios have a Yamaha, some have a Pearl River.

If there are several empty studios, I ask my teacher as a favor if we can go into one of the studios with Yamahas. (Her normal studio has a Pearl River.)

I know my input is not very profound, but I have enjoyed reading the thread. Thanks to all.
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#230558 - 07/12/07 10:57 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:


I’ve included a sound file here. Should you choose to listen, bear in mind:

1.) It’s Mp3 on a Microtrack with a single T-mike over the open cabinet top.
(raw sound)
2.) This is a very inexpensive piano
3.) The playing is a bit sloppy.
4.) The composer is of ill repute.
5.) The ringing phone you hear is not your own.
It’s on the recording.

sound file: http://www.box.net/shared/yu40zukafh [/b]
turandot, that is beautiful, and your piano sounds quite nice to my ears. While I agree that the recording quality isn't the best, the tone that comes through is quite nice. I have played a few Nordiskas and was impressed with their grands, but not with the verticals. I think yours sounds much better than the ones I have played, so obviously John's work has paid off for you. I am still enjoying listening to your recording. Thanks.
_________________________
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flickr


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#230559 - 07/12/07 11:39 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Kenny Blankenship Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 659
Loc: Northeast
Jees, Turn,
If you had spent a bit more money and bought a higher grade piano, you wouldnt have had to spend all those bucks on after sale "preppage."

Nice MP though, good "playage"
_________________________
Kenny Blankenship
Selling anything anyone will buy as the "Walmartizisation of the industry continues. (Still making a fair living and still having clients like me)

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#230560 - 07/12/07 01:00 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20766
Loc: Oakland
I occasionally come across some of those expensive pianos a year or so after they have been sold, and they do not play any better than the cheap ones, not without spending all that money on preparation all over again.
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#230561 - 07/12/07 06:00 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
from Kenny Blankenship
 Quote:
Jees, Turn,
If you had spent a bit more money and bought a higher grade piano, you wouldnt have had to spend all those bucks on after sale "preppage."

K-Blank,

Not a lot of dollars really. The dealer had sent me the replacement felts. I could have hung them myself, no big deal; but my tech didn't charge me for it. I also could have gotten 'free' voicing with the second tuning provided by the store. I didn't want the person they provided to be messing with my hammers though, and I didn't want to voice at all until six months of use.

As to spending a couple of thousand more, you may be right. But it's too early to know. I actually like the Dongbei scale design and the action. Action is #1 for me.

If in the future, it seems that spending more would have been better, I'll own up to it. No problem.
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#230562 - 07/12/07 08:18 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
Turandot,

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you play. Sounds like you put significant time/effort and emotion into it.

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#230563 - 07/12/07 08:35 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by fathertopianist:
Turandot,

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you play. Sounds like you put significant time/effort and emotion into it. [/b]
Likewise T, That was a good listen. The piano sounded quite nice.

Mike
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#230564 - 07/12/07 11:52 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Vince in Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 169
Loc: Las Vegas
Turandot thanks for keeping this thread alive it certainly has my interest. I love your playing and the piano sounds fine to me. I bought a 6'2" Suzuki Grand (made in the Dong bei factory) and I took delivery about three weeks ago. The initial tuning is still a week away. Problems noted: two keys have a longer than normal sustain or put another way they continue to ring longer than they should. I assume the damper on the the two notes can be adjusted. Several of the very highest notes sound a touch louder than surounding tones and that's I discovered wrong so far.

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#230565 - 07/13/07 01:15 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
T-Dot,

Nice chops! Very impressive! Just so happens to be one of my favorite songs. Have you ever listened to Chicago's Big Band album? They did a "Chicago" version of Night and Day that is pretty cool.

See ya'

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#230566 - 07/14/07 12:04 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Terry_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 230
Loc: CT
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
What does this thread absolutely scream out?

For me, it's the thirteen owners who responded to the initial thread starter.

Guys, I know more than 13 Nordiska grand owners that were/are members here.

Over the years I've been here, there have probably been hundreds of Chinese pianos bought through member questions and research. Apparently, those folks are no longer here.

So, what practical use is this observation? What I believe, is that a small cadre of dedicated enthuisiasts for ANY one brand, be it W&L, Estonia, M&H, Nordiska, etc...can make that brand appear more popular than it is.

People who join this board do not stay, not for the vast majority. It's an information hub, the piano purchase is made, and folks don't wander back.

I don't think the board moves a ton of pianos...but if you can somehow make your piano the hot piano on the board, you can affect sales, especially in the smaller, boutique-type pianos. [/b]
Quite right. I, myself, don't come around so much anymore.
I own a Nordiska 165. No problems whatsoever. Sounds great, for the price.

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#230567 - 07/14/07 01:09 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
Hi Terry,

As I finished up your post I wondered what is meant by "Sounds great, for the price."

"For the price" is a qualifier that diminishes the "sounds great". So are you saying that a more expensive piano sounds somewhat better, much better, very much better, than your piano that cost considerably less?

By no means am I casting aspersions on Nordiska or any other Chinese made brand. I guess I am asking; If you could have afforded a more expensive piano (or could afford but did not care to spend more) would you be happier with the sound, action, tone of a higher tier piano?
Is the money more important to you than the piano and therefore you made a compromise?
Or, are you extremely happy with your piano in all regards and gratefull for the price? Maybe you meant to say; I love my piano. It sounds great! I love the action. I've had no problems whatsoever, and it cost half as much as a Schimmel!

But somehow that is not the impression that I get.

???
Mike
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#230568 - 07/14/07 03:29 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Terry_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 230
Loc: CT
"For the price" is a qualifier that diminishes the "sounds great". So are you saying that a more expensive piano sounds somewhat better, much better, very much better, than your piano that cost considerably less?


For six grand, I think it sounds great. When I was shopping (speaking only of new instruments here), I preferred nothing at any price point up to the J. Prambergers (this was a few years back). To phrase it in reflection to your question, I was finding that one paid much more money for somewhat better sound.

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#230569 - 07/23/07 01:08 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
What does this thread absolutely scream out?

For me, it's the thirteen owners who responded to the initial thread starter.

Guys, I know more than 13 Nordiska grand owners that were/are members here.

Over the years I've been here, there have probably been hundreds of Chinese pianos bought through member questions and research. Apparently, those folks are no longer here.

So, what practical use is this observation? What I believe, is that a small cadre of dedicated enthuisiasts for ANY one brand, be it W&L, Estonia, M&H, Nordiska, etc...can make that brand appear more popular than it is.

People who join this board do not stay, not for the vast majority. It's an information hub, the piano purchase is made, and folks don't wander back.

I don't think the board moves a ton of pianos...but if you can somehow make your piano the hot piano on the board, you can affect sales, especially in the smaller, boutique-type pianos. [/b]
Absolutely! This is marketing in the internet age.

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#230570 - 07/29/07 07:52 AM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
Kuyt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 41
Loc: California
bump this for usefulness
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#230571 - 10/31/07 04:56 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Reading the cheerful repartee ( \:D ) that is now taking place on the Perzina thread reminded me that there have been no entries on this thread since late July. I know that many members have stated that they purchased a piano made in China since July.

The best way to get beyond the polarization of opinion about pianos from China is to deal in facts. If anyone who has bought[/b] a piano from China since July (be it an Ellenberg, an Essex through Steinway, a Yamaha T-118 or Cable Nelson, A China-made Kawai, a Brodmann, Heintzman, Hailun, Wendl & Lung, Steigerman, Weinbach, Nordiska, Perzina, Sejung stencil, DongBei stencil, et. al.) would care to post here about their post-delivery experience, it would probably be useful.

Also, if anyone who has already posted here on their Chinese piano would like to report some experience with maintenance (positive or negative), it would be useful as well.

If anyone would like to take a shot at Chinese pianos for political, environmental, cultural or business reasons, please take it elsewhere. \:\)
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#230572 - 10/31/07 05:46 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1904
Loc: El Cajon, CA
Would "sounds great for the price" possibly refer to pianos that sound good (in the opinion of the person saying it) relative to other pianos in the same or similar price range?
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#230573 - 10/31/07 05:56 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
88Key_PianoPlayer,

Do you have a piano made in China? If so, do you wish to post something about it?

This thread is for owners of pianos from China to report on their ownership experience, whether good or bad.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#230574 - 10/31/07 10:15 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
josephl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Richmond, VA
I just purchased a new piano. My first piano was a Chinese Dongbei Story & Clark 5' baby grand. I had that for 3 years without an significant issue. The occasional sticky key or damper. easy fixes when it was tuned every six months. In addition it could have been my 80 year old house which could fluctuate in humidity quite a bit. No central air and radiator heat. I added a damp chaser and that helped stabilize problems with keys and dampers.

After 3 years of playing and knowing that I will I continue to play I began to long for a richer sound than the 5' story and clark could offer. Had my new Brodmann BG 187 delivered last week, I could not be happier. It is a very nice piano and also chinese manufacture. I had the damp chaser moved from the Story & Clark moved to the Brodmann so hopefully I will have fewer issues due to the environment.
_________________________
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Brodmann BG 187
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Jlbg1871.JPG

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#230575 - 10/31/07 11:11 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
gundala Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 40
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
....


So, what practical use is this observation? What I believe, is that a small cadre of dedicated enthuisiasts for ANY one brand, be it W&L, Estonia, M&H, Nordiska, etc...can make that brand appear more popular than it is.

....

I don't think the board moves a ton of pianos...but if you can somehow make your piano the hot piano on the board, you can affect sales, especially in the smaller, boutique-type pianos. [/b]
Isn't that what make Larry Fine almost put Estonia on group 1? ;\) \:D

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#230576 - 11/01/07 01:47 PM Re: Pianos from China..actual user experience
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
I have a 6'1" Ellenburg JE-185 in my home and love it. I also play on a Yamaha C3 at church and like it as well. I believe some pianos coming out of China today have a lot to offer in value, touch, and tone. The Hailun pianos I have played sound, and feel better than pianos from Korea with European names. ;\)

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