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#2306317 - 07/24/14 07:22 AM do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.?
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
in order to make the touch more heavy (or less) I know this is more usually done with individual timing, I am more in the leverage points there.

If we allow the damper lever to pass the line of centers, does it lighten a bit the end of its motion, in a sensible way?

They also can be setup to begin very low and never attain the line, but the spoon orientation have to be taken in account as more friction happens.

I rarely find damper action really badly located but it happen .

If the rail is low the leverage is too strong and the dampers rise too fast (?) too high ? . I mean a +- standard damper system with spoons, not S&S tray.

I think the damper intervention must be discrete and smooth , hence the occasional positioning of actions on the line of centers (for the whippen/key relation, here) , this is said to better absorb the different friction points, at the expense of acceleration/action compression at the start of the key motion.

Does not make much sense to the tech, but pianists seem to like that touch - letoff/aftertouch must be even more refined than usual in that case, as there are less pronounced inertial and braking "second keyboard" sensations during acceleration (that resemble to the 9mm knuckle acceleration a little)

I think the dampers setup is a little anecdotal, however I forget yours US grands often have springs to push on the lever, I wonder what difference in touch and tone it can make, possibly a more timed end of the tone, unless the spring overreacts with the heavier strings and pure inertia follows the wire better (?)

What kind of difference in touch and tone dope sit provide ?

That may push the string on his return path so it raise faster.

Possibly the spring sensation smooth the letoff sensation (sort of "masking" )
I always think Jazz and rhythmic/percussive music when I think of your grands pianos, there have been such a long era nwith the mechanical music, highly rhythmic and that would benefit from a springy keyboard...

Now, damper strings plus whippen assist springs may be a cause for a noisy return of the action in some case/speeds with the whippen floating too long in the air, and creating a double impact noise (plus loss of contact)

Edited by Olek (07/24/14 08:14 AM)
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills

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#2306414 - 07/24/14 11:06 AM Re: do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.? [Re: Olek]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2407
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Well I think the functioning of the sostenuto drives the geometric relations more than anything else. If the tabs go over or under center line the too much, the position of the cam can be problematic for proper clearance and even function.

Also if the damper lever is at too steep an angle against the key end felt, the felt wears quickly.

In general I do not find tweaking damper timing a proper way to solve touch issues. Hammer shaping for weight control and limited use of whippen assist springs and front key weights is far more productive, but of course more expensive given the nature of the work.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

#2306461 - 07/24/14 01:10 PM Re: do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.? [Re: Olek]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Yes you are right, but the sustenuto rod can be placed anywhere.

Of course changing or reintroducing the damper start timing is a cheap method and not without consequences on the tone (can be for the better if the key end cloth is worn).
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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