Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps and more.

Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
135 registered (Anita Potter, accordeur, anamnesis, 36251, agraffe, ando, 37 invisible), 1512 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2306317 - 07/24/14 07:22 AM do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.?
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
in order to make the touch more heavy (or less) I know this is more usually done with individual timing, I am more in the leverage points there.

If we allow the damper lever to pass the line of centers, does it lighten a bit the end of its motion, in a sensible way?

They also can be setup to begin very low and never attain the line, but the spoon orientation have to be taken in account as more friction happens.

I rarely find damper action really badly located but it happen .

If the rail is low the leverage is too strong and the dampers rise too fast (?) too high ? . I mean a +- standard damper system with spoons, not S&S tray.

I think the damper intervention must be discrete and smooth , hence the occasional positioning of actions on the line of centers (for the whippen/key relation, here) , this is said to better absorb the different friction points, at the expense of acceleration/action compression at the start of the key motion.

Does not make much sense to the tech, but pianists seem to like that touch - letoff/aftertouch must be even more refined than usual in that case, as there are less pronounced inertial and braking "second keyboard" sensations during acceleration (that resemble to the 9mm knuckle acceleration a little)

I think the dampers setup is a little anecdotal, however I forget yours US grands often have springs to push on the lever, I wonder what difference in touch and tone it can make, possibly a more timed end of the tone, unless the spring overreacts with the heavier strings and pure inertia follows the wire better (?)

What kind of difference in touch and tone dope sit provide ?

That may push the string on his return path so it raise faster.

Possibly the spring sensation smooth the letoff sensation (sort of "masking" )
I always think Jazz and rhythmic/percussive music when I think of your grands pianos, there have been such a long era nwith the mechanical music, highly rhythmic and that would benefit from a springy keyboard...

Now, damper strings plus whippen assist springs may be a cause for a noisy return of the action in some case/speeds with the whippen floating too long in the air, and creating a double impact noise (plus loss of contact)

Edited by Olek (07/24/14 08:14 AM)
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

(ad 568) PTG Journal Online
PTG Journal Online
#2306414 - 07/24/14 11:06 AM Re: do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.? [Re: Olek]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 3324
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Well I think the functioning of the sostenuto drives the geometric relations more than anything else. If the tabs go over or under center line the too much, the position of the cam can be problematic for proper clearance and even function.

Also if the damper lever is at too steep an angle against the key end felt, the felt wears quickly.

In general I do not find tweaking damper timing a proper way to solve touch issues. Hammer shaping for weight control and limited use of whippen assist springs and front key weights is far more productive, but of course more expensive given the nature of the work.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com

#2306461 - 07/24/14 01:10 PM Re: do some experiment with dampers lining vs line of centers.? [Re: Olek]
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 9230
Loc: France
Yes you are right, but the sustenuto rod can be placed anywhere.

Of course changing or reintroducing the damper start timing is a cheap method and not without consequences on the tone (can be for the better if the key end cloth is worn).
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!


Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
Forums Rules & Help
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Piano Classified Ads
(ad 125) Sweetwater $4700 Giveaway
Sweetwater Giveaway
(ad) Yamaha CP Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP Stage Pianos - Learn More
(ad) Summer Keys
Summer Keys, a Music Adventure in Lubec, Maine
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Ad (the Piano Store)
the Piano Store - Restored Steinway Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Used Piano, age misrepresented. Still a good deal at $7000?
by TwoThumbs
02/05/16 07:26 PM
Overcoming nerves
by PamDD
02/05/16 07:08 PM
Fingering Question
by Johnny D
02/05/16 04:28 PM
Remembering Paul Bley
by Nahum
02/05/16 04:20 PM
Piano Scores/Sheet Music on Kindle?
by newbert
02/05/16 03:51 PM
Forum Stats
82,486 Registered Members
44 Forums
170,286 Topics
2,492,544 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |

copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission