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#2303868 - 07/18/14 10:49 PM Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D.....
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
The owner said it was 6', but the internet
shows it was either 5' or 5'4". I thought it
was 5' 4", as the bass was quite weak.

It wasn't too far off tune, so did it in one careful
pass (6:3, 4:2), and it sounded excellent at the end,
although the too-bright treble section will need regulation and
voicing.

The piano was no where near the sensitivity and control
of the Boston GP193 I tried two days ago. When I tried to play Bach's Goldberg variations, Aria, some of the notes were ghost notes, and just didn't sound, because if you play too lightly, the Kawai will simply not respond. To what extent can a good piano tech regulate a piano like this, so that it's more sensitive to lower velocities?

The KG-1D is still a good student's instrument.

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#2303880 - 07/18/14 11:09 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Gadzar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mexico City
Originally Posted By: Paul678
...It wasn't too far off tune, so did it in one careful
pass (6:3, 4:2), and it sounded excellent at the end...


What do you mean by careful pass?

What do you mean by sounding excellent?

As you mention 6:3 4:2 I assume you tuned using Tunelab.

Did you tuned with over pull? How much and where?

After the unique careful pass, did you checked each note to be in tune with Tunelab?

Overpull in Tunelab and all other ETD or aural tunings, is only a guess. How much overpull is needed depends on structural facts of the piano being tuned, mainly downbearing in the bridges and crown in the soundboard and scaling (wire size and length of the strings).



Edited by Gadzar (07/18/14 11:10 PM)
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

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#2303885 - 07/18/14 11:20 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Gadzar]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: Gadzar


What do you mean by careful pass?

What do you mean by sounding excellent?

As you mention 6:3 4:2 I assume you tuned using Tunelab.

Did you tuned with over pull? How much and where?

After the unique careful pass, did you checked each note to be in tune with Tunelab?

Overpull in Tunelab and all other ETD or aural tunings, is only a guess. How much overpull is needed depends on structural facts of the piano being tuned, mainly downbearing in the bridges and crown in the soundboard and scaling (wire size and length of the strings).



Yes, Tunelab. Didn't need to overpull, as all
notes were within 8-10 cents or so.

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#2303901 - 07/19/14 12:41 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Gadzar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mexico City
10 cents is twice as is needed to be considered as a pitch correction.

Once you were done, Did you checked every note was where you left it?
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

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#2303927 - 07/19/14 03:28 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Gadzar]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: Gadzar
10 cents is twice as is needed to be considered as a pitch correction.

Once you were done, Did you checked every note was where you left it?



Yes, I did. All the notes were good.

Actually, some of the notes were spot on right off the bat,
and some of the notes were sharp, and some flat, so it wasn't
all flats or all sharps.

DON'T TELL ME HOW TO DO MY JOB, FRIEND!

thumb grin

And let me ask again:

To what extent can a good piano tech regulate a piano like this, so that it's more sensitive to lower velocities?


Edited by Paul678 (07/19/14 03:29 AM)

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#2303931 - 07/19/14 04:19 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Gadzar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mexico City
Originally Posted By: Paul678
DON'T TELL ME HOW TO DO MY JOB, FRIEND!


I thought you were asking for advice. Judging by what you have posted, I clearly see you are a beginner, without mentor, and that you do not know what you are doing. I was willing to help, but I see I'm not welcome. So be it, go on, on your own...

BTW, I'm not your friend!



Edited by Gadzar (07/19/14 04:21 AM)
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

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#2303940 - 07/19/14 06:05 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Gadzar]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: Gadzar


I thought you were asking for advice. Judging by what you have posted, I clearly see you are a beginner, without mentor, and that you do not know what you are doing. I was willing to help, but I see I'm not welcome. So be it, go on, on your own...

BTW, I'm not your friend!




Wrong, paramecium-brain. I've got plenty of
mentors right here on this forum, but certainly not you.
I don't need input from you.

I know exactly what I'm doing. The piano sounds
great now. This was a referral job from a student of
the customer, who was obviously happy with my services, so I'm doing something right!

And let me ask again:

To what extent can a good piano tech regulate a piano like this, so that it's more sensitive to lower velocities?


Edited by Paul678 (07/19/14 06:17 AM)

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#2303947 - 07/19/14 07:35 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 725
Loc: England
In answer to your question Paul678, the lack of control at lower velocities is generally entirely due to bad regulation. The main culprits are normally associated with set offs and incorrect depth of touch.

However it must also be acknowledged that in order to achieve good set offs, other parts of regulation need checking and if necessary, adjusting too.

Quite a simple job for us pros, but if you haven't much experience, any good tech should be able to sort this easily fixed problem out for you at reasonable cost.

Hope that assissts wink
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#2304036 - 07/19/14 02:13 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
SMHaley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 757
Loc: Seattle
A Kawai can regulate fairly decently, even some of the shorter action ratios on the smaller grands. It is probably due for a full regulation.

@ Gadzar, you are correct. Paul678 is just starting out and has also been the subject of consternation of the forum moderators and participants for being less than congenial when being offered help or suggestions.
_________________________
AA Music Arts 2001, BM 2005
Pipe Organ Builder
Practitioner of piano technology
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Curator of instruments - Chancel Arts
Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
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#2304082 - 07/19/14 03:53 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Gadzar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mexico City
SMHaley,

IIt's what I suspected. Now, I have read other posts of Paul678 and he's special.

I better keep out of his threads.



Edited by Gadzar (07/19/14 03:55 PM)
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

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#2304134 - 07/19/14 05:54 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Gadzar]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: Gadzar
SMHaley,

IIt's what I suspected. Now, I have read other posts of Paul678 and he's special.

I better keep out of his threads.




CORRECT!

thumb

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#2304167 - 07/19/14 07:30 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
A443 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 1411
Originally Posted By: Paul678
And let me ask again: To what extent can a good piano tech regulate a piano like this, so that it's more sensitive to lower velocities?
Grand piano actions are, essentially, all the same. There are slightly different action geometries, but what makes them feel different are the inconsistencies and misalignments. Enough time spent working with what is there (i.e., on any grand piano), can result in one of the finest feeling/responding actions.
_________________________
Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com

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#2304291 - 07/20/14 06:45 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7875
Loc: France
It looks like a typical nightmare for the tuners in his location.
With tunings that stay put 24h


Edited by Olek (07/20/14 06:48 AM)
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#2306640 - 07/24/14 06:03 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: A443]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: A443
Grand piano actions are, essentially, all the same. There are slightly different action geometries, but what makes them feel different are the inconsistencies and misalignments. Enough time spent working with what is there (i.e., on any grand piano), can result in one of the finest feeling/responding actions.


With all due respect, I find this hard to believe,
because what you are suggesting is that any Yamaha can be made to feel like any Mason and Hamlin, with enough regulation work done, which is highly doubtful.

Does Yamaha put weights in their keys? it sure seems like it....

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#2306735 - 07/24/14 10:47 PM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Paul678]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2187
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
A443 did not say excellent regulation will make all grand actions feel the same. He said it would make them much more controllable and consistent.

Why do you want to put meaning into words that is not there? This trait makes life more difficult. When you are asking for help, responding with a certain grace is civilized.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2306834 - 07/25/14 06:16 AM Re: Just Tuned up and Played a Kawai KG-1D..... [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Paul678 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 685
Originally Posted By: Ed McMorrow, RPT
A443 did not say excellent regulation will make all grand actions feel the same. He said it would make them much more controllable and consistent.

Why do you want to put meaning into words that is not there? This trait makes life more difficult. When you are asking for help, responding with a certain grace is civilized.


Take it easy Ed! I mean no malice.

If you noticed, I prefaced my post with "all due respect".

Perhaps I misunderstood him (Wow, wouldn't that be a first!), but he made it sound like the differences were mainly in how they are regulated and adjusted. If that were true, you could make any grand piano have a similar feel to any other grand, which I'm sure is not true.

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