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Topic Options
#2308707 - 07/29/14 08:00 PM Opinions on Roland F130R
Laerai Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/25/14
Posts: 5
Has anyone tried one of these yet? I can't find a single one to try out in any local store. I'm thinking about buying one, but even YouTube videos are sparse because of how new this DP is.

I would really, really appreciate if anyone has any first hand comments on how realistic the action is, the quality of the sound, etc. in comparison to competing brands like the Yamaha P255 or even to the old F120.


Do you guys think it's the best you can get at 1300 overall?

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#2308965 - 07/30/14 02:26 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Hi Laerai.

As you can see from my signature, I'm a Roland guy.

A few things to know about the F130R.

The Action is new. It's called PHA-4 Standard. It replaces the previous Ivory Feel G action. Definitely a more positive feeling action that has a nice initial throw and bottoms more positively than the previous version. It also includes the separated keybed scanning processor that was first introduced in the V-Piano. So the response is very good as well.

The speaker system is much improved on the previous model, the F-120, and this piano also allows you to connect a USB stick with WAV and SMF format files for song playback AND recording in both formats. You can also use the Wireless Adapter to connect to an iOS device and use some of our free apps with the piano.

Anecdotally, the Canadian retailers who have received their shipments of F-130R have told me that it is head and shoulders above its predecessor, and they really like it a lot.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2308979 - 07/30/14 02:57 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Laerai Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/25/14
Posts: 5
Thanks for the response.

Looks like there's no getting around the fact that new technology is hard to find in stores. I thought that Ivory Feel G was pretty solid though, so if this is better then I might as well give it a shot.

I'm going to order it after I post this, so thanks for the information Jay.

Now to figure out how to close this thread...

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#2308984 - 07/30/14 03:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
You could close the thread by giving a good review of the F130(R) when it arrives. It would be interesting to know as they are not yet too common.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2308991 - 07/30/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Here's a demo by an Australian retailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gizo1QMEkUM
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2309084 - 07/30/14 08:04 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 75
I'd love to hear some feedback as well. I'm especially curious about how its pedaling system.

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#2309316 - 07/31/14 11:35 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Anything you specifically want to know about the pedaling system?

Please ask.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2309365 - 07/31/14 01:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
UpNorth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 70
Maybe I have an excuse to upgrade from my P-155 to the F-130R. It looks nice.

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#2309445 - 07/31/14 05:12 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: UpNorth]
nameofthewave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 5
Loc: London
There's a review here. He seems to be very positive overall, much improved sound and action.

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#2309448 - 07/31/14 05:19 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: nameofthewave]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Like usual, some factual inaccuracies in that review, but generally pretty positive.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2309564 - 07/31/14 10:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 75
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Anything you specifically want to know about the pedaling system?


Nothing specific that I can put into words. For me, realistic pedaling falls into that "when I see (or rather, feel and hear it), I know it" category.

We have a friendly Roland dealer near us and he thought R-130R would be a good fit for us based on specs but he didn't have it yet and we couldn't wait for him to get it in stock. I can't go back there unless I have childcare since I had the hardest time keeping DD away from their Steinway grands so before I went through all the trouble, I wanted to do as much research as possible. smile

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#2309592 - 08/01/14 12:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The pedals are very good. The half pedaling is on all three and they have a good feel under the foot. Nothing strikingly different than the HP Series to me. So if you liked the resistance and response of those (if you tried them) you'll like the pedals on the F-130R.

I had an F-130R in white at home for a few months so I got pretty familiar with it. Really enjoyed it a lot more than the F-120 that it replaces.

Just sold it off to a local dealer as a demo model for his sales floor. Next up I'll take a DP-90e and an RD-800 home to use. I'm moving mid month to a new place, so why not enjoy a new piano when i get there.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2310039 - 08/02/14 12:05 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 75
Jay,

I didn't try out pedals on any models when I was shopping since it was primarily for DD who isn't going to reach pedals for many years.

F130-R is starting to sound good, especially for its price. 

Of course, if I could take it home without paying for it, I'd go for DP-90Se in white. It looks beautiful.

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#2310248 - 08/02/14 01:50 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
I have just posted my review of the FP-50. The F-130R appears to be midway between the F20 and the FP-50, but built into a case. The sound of the supernatural APs I expect to be the same, and the speakers have in common the single combined midrange and tweeter, both of which I comment on in my review.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2310350 - 08/02/14 07:25 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The F-130R is no more related to an FP-50 as an F-20.

The output of the Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

The speaker system, is completely different than that of the FP-50 and the F-20 so bears no comparison at all.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/02/14 11:34 PM)
Edit Reason: for clarity
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310355 - 08/02/14 07:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
Then I will leave it to the interested buyers to test the piano for the mentioned flaws. If it doesn't have them, then well and good. But then there certainly is no harm in their being made aware of what to test for when they try the F-130R at the dealers. In fact I would like some feed back on all the Roland boards that have multiple supernatural AP sounds, to know if one of more of the APs have this flaw.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2310358 - 08/02/14 07:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Tuneless,

There are no mentioned flaws, as barely anyone has had an opportunity to try the piano as it has just started shipping. As I mentioned in my reply to your "review", there is a reason that there is no mention of this "flaw" anywhere else on Piano World. And that is because it is a normal behaviour of an acoustic piano. That behaviour was captured for the SuperNatural Acoustic pianos.

Simply put, it is not a flaw.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310384 - 08/02/14 09:24 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
. . .

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

. . .


OK -- this has been bugging me, reading recent threads:

. . . What is "SuperNatural sound", then ?

Maybe I should put it like this:

. . . What do all Roland DP's with "SuperNatural sound"
. . . have in common?

. . . What are the things that distinguish it from other
. . . manufacturer's sound generators?

. Charles

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#2310410 - 08/02/14 10:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
. . .

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

. . .

OK -- this has been bugging me, reading recent threads:

. . . What is "SuperNatural sound", then ?

Maybe I should put it like this:

. . . What do all Roland DP's with "SuperNatural sound"
. . . have in common?


Each SuperNatural engine is based on a 4 level 88-key multi sample which is taken from several fine concert grands then combined. Then we use some of the modelling from the V-Piano to create 128 levels of expression instead of the 4 that a straight multi-sampled engine would offer. The resonances and overtones are also created by modelling and are dynamic in terms of both timbre and volume. Each have 128 levels as well.

Certain Roland Pianos will give you access to editing those particular resonances etc. The difference between the more expensive and lower priced instruments lies in the amount of editing parameters and cabinetry, speakers etc.

But I want to be clear here, the SuperNatural Piano sound engine has a minimum specification, and we don't currently make a non SuperNatural Piano.

Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
. . . What are the things that distinguish it from other
. . . manufacturer's sound generators?


I can't speak to the technologies and techniques that other manufacturers use, but from reading marketing materials I've surmised that most other manufacturers are using multi sampling for the core sound generation and some modelling for some or all of the resonances.

One other distinguishing factor of a Roland Piano is that there is no specific piano that has been sampled or modelled. The end result is a confluence of sounds to create a Roland piano, instead of a reproduction of any specific concert grand piano.
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310426 - 08/02/14 11:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
The F-130R is no more related to an FP-50 as an F-20.

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.


That's interesting. I believe the widely held view here on Piano World is that the 'Supernatural' sound engine is of the same quality throughout the Roland product line-up - i.e. an entry level F20 will have the same sound quality (through headphones) as a top of the range LX-15.

Are you saying that this is not actually the case?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2310440 - 08/02/14 11:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Kawai James]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone.

I explained more in the post above and edited the post you quoted for further clarity.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/02/14 11:35 PM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310445 - 08/02/14 11:52 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for your reply Jay.

Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone.


Yes, that's true.

But if we take speaker systems out of the equation, i.e. listen through the same pair of headphones, will the F20 have the same sound quality as the LX-15?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2310479 - 08/03/14 01:07 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.

That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310498 - 08/03/14 03:43 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for the clarification Jay.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2312615 - 08/07/14 07:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Jay Roland:

Since the review here has had some influence on my views expressed in this thread I started can you share with me your views on it's factual inaccuracies.

I'm really interested in the Roland F-130R. As well as anything related to factual issues, another aspect which is more subjective are comments made on the keyboard's action. I'm interested in hearing your views (and those of others who've played it -- on the action of the F-130R.

Part of my interest has to do with comparing the F-130R with the Kawai ES7.

I know -- Apples and Oranges. Not to mention a fairly hefty difference in price.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/07/14 07:24 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312644 - 08/07/14 08:27 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Good news...for me a least.

On a whim, I called a local Sam Ash (10 minutes away). Of course no F-130R in stock. But the guy who answered the phone has good friends at Roland and is going to arrange to have one shipped over to the store...whether I buy it or not.

Finally! The opportunity to actually try before I buy.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312716 - 08/08/14 12:35 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Trust your fingers and your ears. The rest is just words.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2312757 - 08/08/14 02:02 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.

That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.

Jay


Enter an enterprising software manufacturer. . . !
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2312878 - 08/08/14 10:02 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
...And this opportunity that opened up to actually play the F130R just 10 minutes away from I live is the preferred way to try a piano.

After all, who buys are car without test driving it?

Actually, I'm amazed because I just reread this entire thread and with the exception of Jay, no one actually played the F130R yet.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/08/14 11:19 AM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312925 - 08/08/14 11:30 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
It was that way with the RD800 too though Sushi. I got my demo model in November a full two months before it was released, and I wanted to sing from the rooftops. But had to wait for NAMM. Then it was still a few weeks before they were readily available.

Because I work for Roland, I see, hear and touch almost every Roland piano before any end user would have even heard of it.

Once the F-130R gets out there more widely, I'm sure impressions will come in.

But really, these are just words on a screen, and playing the pianos is the proof in the pudding.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2312973 - 08/08/14 01:24 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, you can be sure that, assuming these guys at Sam Ash follow through, I'll be trying the F-130R early next week -- and posting a first-hand review here.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313006 - 08/08/14 02:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.


Edited by toddy (08/08/14 02:34 PM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2313025 - 08/08/14 03:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, according to Roland's specs, they call it:

88 keys (PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel)

So I hope it's close!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313029 - 08/08/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1860
Loc: Portugal
Yes, me too! It would make it an excellent piano, also quite compact and good looking, at a relatively low price.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

Top
#2313092 - 08/08/14 05:02 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: toddy
The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.


Its much closer in feel to ITS big brother than the previous version to its big brother. It feels very nice and has an awesome connection to the sound engine.

You will enjoy it.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2313095 - 08/08/14 05:07 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
I am totally looking forward to this. In fact, if it turns out that I get it...I will make every effort to do a video.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313124 - 08/08/14 06:51 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Phlox Offline
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Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 122
Loc: The Netherlands
@Jay:
Can you connect a roland DP without MIDI (almost none of them have a 'normal' midi connector) to another synth or Piano??
_________________________
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#2314170 - 08/11/14 11:37 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2314351 - 08/12/14 12:39 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Starboard Offline
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Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 46
I had the chance today to try an F-130R (current generation PHA4-Standard action) side-by-side with an F-20 (previous generation Ivory Feel-G action). There's been some discussion in this thread regarding the difference between these actions, so I'll weigh in with my opinion.

I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it. If you liked the previous generation, you'll definitely still like PHA4-Standard--if you didn't, then I'm not sure if your opinion would be likely to change. It still felt a little "sluggish" to me (a common complaint that I've read about Ivory Feel-G), but I kinda like the feeling of weight that it imparts. I think I personally prefer it over Yamaha's (Arius and early 'P' series with GHS action) and Casio's (Privia line) offerings at similar prices, but I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Worth noting that I have not been able to try Kawai's actions at the sub-$1400 price points and can't offer comparative opinion there. Key-bottoming noise didn't seem significantly different from Ivory Feel-G, but I can't rule out that it may have been a bit quieter.

I like Roland's SN sounds, so no complaints there. If you've liked them or tried them on other models you can expect more of the same from the F-130R. No doubt it will sound much better through headphones than through the tiny built-in speakers.

My pedal opinion is slightly mixed. On the one hand, I love that Roland's left (soft/una corde) pedal is a continuous-state response rather than binary. As far as I know, they're the only ones doing that, and they do it across their whole lineup, RPU-3 standalone pedal unit included. I strongly dislike the binary on-off left pedal in my MP11's F-30 pedal unit, and it's disappointing that (every?) other manufacturers cut this corner. On the other hand, it felt like I had to press down pretty far before the sustain pedal began its response. Once depressed far enough to begin there was plenty of room for graduated partial-sustain playing, but it seemed to me like it took too far to get to the start of the response. Maybe someone with an inclination toward tinkering could find a way to adjust this.

If one likes the action, it seems like it would make a fine choice at its price point.

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#2314460 - 08/12/14 10:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Starboard:

I will be trying out the F-130R later this week. I've not spent much time with Roland pianos in the past. Most of my experience has been with Yamahas, the p105 and currently, the P155, both whose action I've come to dislike as being on the heavy side. The key-bottoming noise has also been an issue which I was hoping would be less with the Roland F-130R.

Since I am comparing Yamaha with the Roland, I'm hoping the difference will be more apparent to me...and most importantly -- to the positive.

I too have wanted to add the Kawai ES100 to the comparison pool, but I can't find any locally. Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

Going into a bit more detail on your thoughts about the F130R's action I have these questions:

1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

Thanks!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/12/14 10:22 AM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314654 - 08/12/14 05:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
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Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 75
For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together. I don't know if that is what people meant as sluggish but something was definitely "ish" and not in a positive way.

If F-130R doesn't have that lack of connection, I'd be really interested.

Starboard, thank you for the feedback on the pedals. It sounds promising.

I'm going to start my lesson again and I get to play on a CX-7. I have a feeling that I'm going to be upgrading around Christmas. smile

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#2314670 - 08/12/14 06:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Starboard Offline
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Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning. It's very easy to fool one's own senses when evaluating these kinds of subtle effects, so do take my remarks with a grain of salt--for all I know it could be a false impression of slow return imparted by the combination of key weight and various other factors. I just think Ivory Feel-G and PHA4-Standard just have a very different feel from any other digital I've yet played. It's not a bad feel, just noticeably different (and different too from the higher-end PHA4-Concert action on the HP series and RD800).

Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES100/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

If it's as long as a two hour drive I can definitely understand not wanting to make that trip, but I'd be confident in basing my opinion of (at least as it concerns Kawai) a key action on a different model with the same spec. I had to order the MP11 blind, but the keys and sound seem just the same as the CA65/CA95/CS10 that I played in person. It can definitely inform your opinion, anyway, so if it's a feasible trip I think you would find value in it. The more first-hand experience you have, the better the choice you can make for yourself.

Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!


Edited by Starboard (08/12/14 11:26 PM)
Edit Reason: model number correction

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#2314702 - 08/12/14 08:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: littlebirdblue]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: littlebirdblue
For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together.


Woah...that's sounds like a scene from a scary movie. eek

In all seriousness...I think that's a problem with a lot of acoustic pianos I've played. grin
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314709 - 08/12/14 08:56 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Starboard
When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning.

Wow I'm glad I asked. I was thinking that you perhaps meant that there was a delay between moment you hit the key and when the sound is produced.

Originally Posted By: Starboard
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

I appreciate your elaborating on this. While my own impressions will be shaped by the collective impressions of the pianos I've played, I'm glad you mentioned some of the Yamahas and Casios I've also tried out.

Originally Posted By: Starboard
Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!

Ha ha...I'm curious about what I'll be thinking about it too!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/12/14 08:57 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314734 - 08/12/14 10:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
pwl Online   content
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Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 207
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: Starboard
I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

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#2314743 - 08/12/14 11:17 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good catch pwl.

The ES100 and ES6 (predecessor to the ES7) both utilise the same AHA-IV F keyboard action).

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2314749 - 08/12/14 11:28 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: pwl]
Starboard Offline
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Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: pwl
Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

Very right you are, and indeed, I did mean ES100 and not ES7. So many models to keep track of! Thanks for the correction--I've edited the post to clarify.

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#2314951 - 08/13/14 10:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
On YouTube, I asked Rudi, who did this great review of the F130R, the following question:

Quote:
What is your opinion about the action? For the past year or so, I've been playing a Yamaha P-155 and think the action is a bit heavy. I am considering getting this Roland and I'd like your impressions of the action, especially if you've played the p155 before. Also, I'd like to know what you think of the Roland's old Ivory Feel-G vs. the new PHA4-Standard that's in the F130R.

His response was in line with my hopes and expectations:

Quote:
The action is certainly improved over the ivory feel G action, it has a more direct and slightly weightier feel without being too heavy.

I agree on the P155 action being heavy, obviously it's a matter of personal opinion, I must say though that just because an action is "heavier" doesn't mean it plays better.

Just because people are looking for "fully weighted actions" doesn't mean that they need to find the heaviest action out there!

It's all about what you can achieve with it.

All in all the F130 is great piece of gear. I get to play with some serious toys at work so pretty spoilt , but I still really enjoy the F130 :-)

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Rudi


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/13/14 02:11 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2315175 - 08/13/14 09:36 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
I know this this discussion is on the Roland F-130R, but I couldn't resist this. Here's can be done with F-120, the F-130R's predecessor...took me by surprise:



Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/15/14 05:05 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316013 - 08/15/14 05:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Here's a review of the F-130 you likely have not seen until now because it was just uploaded today, 8/15/2014.



It's in German, but here's Google Translation of the page this video originally appears on.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316047 - 08/15/14 06:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Thanks for the review, Starboard! The only hands-on opinion so far (bar Roland employees).

I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

Originally Posted By: Starboard
I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it.

Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

I don't suppose anyone has diagrams or photos of the F130R action, and similar for the Ivory-Feel G? I can't find any for either action online. It would be good to see what's supposed to have changed.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2316422 - 08/17/14 12:31 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

But keep in mind what Starboard later said in reply to my further probing it the new action that is the F-130R:
Quote:
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

At this point, because the F-130r is not widely avaialble for people to test -- so we're desperately clinging on all that's being said.

But I've pretty much reach every review and every opinion out there. I've watched and listened to every video of someone playing it. Considering all top digital keyboards under $2000, I've come to the conclusion that this is the best successor to my Yamaha P-155.

I have decided to purchase it, and I'm expecting to pick it up early this coming week. Sam Ash offers to take it back with 30 days, if I don't like, so I'm covered.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316424 - 08/17/14 12:41 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

I think there are exceptions to that:
this Polish site offers a very detailed critique with both positives and negatives.

As well, they've got individual sound samples of: Damper Resonance, String Resonance, Accompaniment tracks, and 3d Ambiance.

As well I think Tim at AZ is pretty much forthright about his likes and dislikes.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316572 - 08/17/14 01:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Phlox Offline
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Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 122
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay

Hi Jay, thanks for your answer !!
Will this work also in the other direction ?? So if I want to use the sound of a roland, played from another keyboard ??
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#2318144 - 08/21/14 01:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Phlox]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-130R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/27/14 12:53 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2318189 - 08/21/14 03:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
When you get it, bear in mind we need to know about the key actions since there is a dearth of info on that. So you have my permission to delve in there and reveal all to the camera whilst possibly scratching that beautiful red finish thereby invalidating the guarantee. . .:)

Have fun. I,m sure you'll enjoy it!


Edited by peterws (08/21/14 03:20 PM)
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#2318589 - 08/22/14 01:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Yes, the action is one of the issues I've been most obsessed about, given that the action for my Yamaha p155 has been one of my biggest complaints.

So yes, I give as in-depth a report about it as I can -- once I get it.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320453 - 08/27/14 01:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
tiga Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 1
Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-103R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.
just to clarifiy.... did you buy F-103R or F-130R ?

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#2320667 - 08/27/14 01:06 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: tiga]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
F-130R. Typo corrected.

Update: A couple days ago I was informed that tracking said it would arrive yesterday 8/26 to my local Sam Ash.

Breathlessly awaiting confirmation.

While product weight is listed as 76 lbs, delivery rate is close to 100 lbs. Thus, slow freight via Roadway.

Order was placed August 11. Unbelievable. The one thing that it has over over purchasing from Amazon (free shipping for Prime Members) is that I can return it to Sam Ash with 30 days for full refund. I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of shipping it back, as unlikely that would be.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/27/14 01:08 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320674 - 08/27/14 01:18 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 200
The F130R looks to be similar to my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and an attached stand. I have recently obtained my RD800 and absolutely adore it. Congrats on your purchase and please let us know what you think of your keyboard after you put it through its paces!
_________________________
Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800

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#2320690 - 08/27/14 01:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: petes1]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: petes1
The F130R looks to be similar to my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and an attached stand. I have recently obtained my RD800 and absolutely adore it. Congrats on your purchase and please let us know what you think of your keyboard after you put it through its paces!

It has an inferior keyboard action to the RD800 and only a tiny fraction of the features. It's made by Roland and has a SuperNatural piano sound, but that's where the similarities end. It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2320707 - 08/27/14 02:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Congrats on yours too!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320734 - 08/27/14 04:11 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
UpNorth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: lolatu
It has an inferior keyboard action to the RD800 and only a tiny fraction of the features. It's made by Roland and has a SuperNatural piano sound, but that's where the similarities end. It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.


This is very useful info - thanks for pointing this out.

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#2320782 - 08/27/14 06:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: lolatu

It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.


I take issue with that. The PHA-4 Standard is a new action. As is the PHA-4 Premium and Concert. We are not looking to confuse anyone.

There is a good action that goes in our newer budget and compact instruments called PHA-4 Standard. Our Mid Range instruments get the better PHA-4 Premium action and the Top of the line get the best PHA-4 Concert action. Each action brought a significant, and in my opinion positive, change from its predecessor.

The assertion that we are looking to confuse anyone is false.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/27/14 07:06 PM)
_________________________
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I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2320879 - 08/27/14 11:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Jay: Roland has a long history of confusing terminology for its key actions. You just have to browse some of the old threads on these forums to see how confusing they are (random example 1, example 2). If it's not intentional... I don't know what to say.

We can argue semantics of what constitutes a "new" action, but we know that in the previous generation PHA3 and Ivory Feel S were the same, except for the 2-piece key construction on the PHA3 allowing for brown wood-effect plastic on the sides. PHA4 Concert and PHA4 Premium derive from those two, with the addition of extra padding and a dedicated processor for key sensing.

I have personally taken apart a first generation PHA keyboard (circa 2002), and compared it to dewster's nekkid pics of the PHA3 action, and it's nearly identical: obviously a few differences like the escapement simulation, but the geometry, measurements, materials, and positions of the components are the same. So there is a basic design which has always been called PHA, PHA2, PHA3, or PHA4.

There is another more lightweight action, included in portable or cheaper instruments, variously known as PHA2-Alpha, and Ivory Feel G in the second and third generations respectively. It has not been received nearly as well as the PHA actions. I have not seen diagrams or photos of it, but it's safe to say that the action has a different design, geometry, and materials.

Are you categorically saying that PHA4 Standard is NOT derived from this latter line, but is a totally new design? Or is it derived from the PHA4 Premium / Concert design, as you marketing materials imply?

Originally Posted By: F130R page on Roland website
The newly developed PHA-4 Standard Keyboard inherits the functions, appearance, and Ivory Feel texture of keyboards found in our flagship instruments ...

Now when someone reads the above and sees an F130R proudly advertised as having "PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel" - whether they have been following Roland digital pianos for a while and think they know what a PHA action is, or whether they just see that the RD800 and the HP50x pianos also have a PHA4 action - they're going to think they're getting an action the same, or very similar to what's in those more expensive models. I cannot believe that this association is not intentional.

Furthermore, there are no published pictures or diagrams showing the differences between the actions. If you are keen to avoid accusations of obfuscation, you might like to provide some. smile
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2320893 - 08/28/14 12:07 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
gg22 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 8
I recently played Roland F-130R and to me it felt very similar to the Feel-G action in Roland F-120 (if not the same).


Edited by gg22 (08/28/14 12:09 AM)

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#2321073 - 08/28/14 11:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
lolatu,

Of course all of these actions have evolved from their predecessors.

But you said: "It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3."

It's not Ivory Feel G as much as the Premium and Concert actions are not their predecessors either.

PHA-4 standard is a new action. It feels markedly different than Ivory Feel G, and there's nothing wrong with consistently evolving our piano action at all levels, to feel better than the actions that preceded it.

If no company made progress and didn't ever try new things, we'd all still be playing on sprung actions with PCM synthesized piano tones.

I regret that you feel there's some sort of obfuscation going on. That is not the intent of us, or any other manufacturer. I can assure you.

We invest countless hours and dollars trying to make the best piano action we can to make the playing experience as good as it can be at any price point.

A crying shame that you think there's some conspiracy theory going on here. We're all just trying to make a great piano. That's it.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/28/14 11:15 AM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321090 - 08/28/14 11:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Hernando, MS
Jay
This is not intended as a criticism, but rather a general question. Why have so many different actions on the roland line in the first place? Ivory Feel G, and S, and PHA4 standard, and PHA4concert, and PHA4premium. That's a lot of actions, and it's not really clear to me what the differences are. Is there anything on roland's website that explains the differences? If not, maybe that would be a worthwhile suggestion to pass on to the web designers.

Or even better, in the future, roland might try to standardize around fewer types of action. One thing that I like about Casio is that they have a standardized keyboard across their lines. Whatever privia you get, you're getting the best action that casio makes.

Why doesn't roland do something similar? Standardizing on 1 or 2 (maybe to balance best feel vs. weight/portability) actions would make it much easier for consumers. I have to think in the long run it would be cost beneficial to Roland too as you would presumably benefit from economies of scale.

Just a thought.

Still loving my RD800 btw. smile
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2321110 - 08/28/14 12:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: fizikisto]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Great question.

There are a TON of factors that dictate the actions used. More than most people could ever understand. Some of the nuances of design and supply chain management are even lost on me, and I've been deeply invested in this stuff for more than a decade with Roland Canada. But I would agree that we currently have a large variation of piano actions, which can confuse some end users.
I just take issue with the assertion that we're purposely trying to confuse, or obfuscate what we are doing.

We have had many discussions about how to A) simplify the offering, and B) explain the differences between each so it's clearer to the end user. It's just not simple to do A. B is something that I've long thought about doing, it's a function of time and priority.

It's a constantly evolving thing, and we are doing our utmost to make it simpler for us too. My hope is that we can eventually have a Good, Better and Best option, but as long as there's used instruments and leftover floor stock of some older actions, we'll never be able to keep up with all the variations out there.

Glad you're loving your RD800, just took one home a little while ago and am playing piano more than ever these days. That's a good thing.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/28/14 05:55 PM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321239 - 08/28/14 06:48 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
@fizikisto It's not complicated at all, despite what Jay is making out.

Roland make only TWO types of 88-key digital piano keyboards (not including unweighted synth actions), and have done for at least a decade.

1) PHAx.
Alias: Ivory-Feel S
Description: Heavier, more expensive, highly regarded, appears in the premium pianos
Models: HP-50x, RD-800, DP90, FP80, V-Piano etc.

2) Lightweight action.
Alias: PHA2-Alpha, Ivory-Feel G, PHA4 Standard
Description: Lighter, cheaper, not highly regarded, appears in the cheaper and more portable pianos
Models: RP301, RD-300NX, F120, FP50, FA-08 etc.

Think of it like a line of cars. BMW produces the 7-Series (a full-size, luxury line) and the 3-Series (a compact, cheaper line). There have been 5 or 6 generations of each; each generation is slightly different, and improves on the last. In some sense it is "new", but in terms of components and design it's largely the same as, and hence can be said to derive from, the previous version. They come with options like a sports trim kit - which is like the difference between PHA4 Premium and Concert.

What Roland have done is to take their newest 3-Series and badged it as a 7-Series. This is not meant to confuse, apparently. And apparently Roland's collective wisdom cannot figure out how make it not-confusing.

So let me help them out. Give the lightweight line a new acronym, say LWA. Suffix it with the generation number, and the trim level, as they do for the PHA line. Stop coming up with goofy names where no-one knows what they are, like "Ivory Feel G". Problem solved.

BTW I very much appreciate and like the Roland keyboard actions (well the PHA ones at least), so thumbs up to the engineers. Thumbs down to the marketing team.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2321244 - 08/28/14 07:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Such hostility.

PHA stands for Progressive Hammer Action. This is the 4th Generation of PHA which has three variants. Standard, Premium and Concert. That's not tough to grasp. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and I am not sure why.

This is why manufacturers reps love and dread this forum all at the same time.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321265 - 08/28/14 08:05 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
gbitw Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 17
@Laerai - Did you ever get and demo the F130R

@Jay - how portable is the F130R? Can the keyboard be removed from the cabinet for travel?

@all - How does the ES7 compare to the F130R? Does the ES7 features justify the extra cost?

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#2321340 - 08/28/14 11:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Starboard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 46
I don't think lolatu is being at all hostile in his posts; I appreciate his desire to cut to the specific and the relevant technicality of a subject (his Grand Feel key clinic thread is one of this forum's most fascinating and valuable to anyone interested in how these instruments actually work (***)--it gave me both anxiety and confidence when I was waiting for my MP11 to arrive), and I think his posts to this thread are quite in line with that perspective and will be valued by anyone interested in the F-130R or Roland's actions more generally. I'll say that I personally had a heck of a time understanding the tiering of Roland's actions when I first began looking into DPs several months ago: Ivory Feel-G, Ivory Feel-S, PHA3, and then the three PHA4 variations on top of them all. If you're coming into the market mostly blind, as I was, it's going to be a lot to take in (an RP301 with Ivory Feel-G was the very first model I tried back in May as part of my own DP purchasing decision journey). Without this forum, and without reading some of the previous discussions on this very subject, I don't think I'd ever have fully understood where each of these actions fit into the greater context of Roland's offerings--and an understanding of this greater context is necessarily important for any customer looking to get the best value for their money.

And Jay, I appreciate your presence on this forum, too! I hope you aren't seeing hostility where it isn't intended.

*** Extra shoutout along these lines to dewster's invaluable DPBSD and DPs Exposed threads.

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#2321345 - 08/28/14 11:56 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: gbitw]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: gbitw
@Laerai - Did you ever get and demo the F130R

@Jay - how portable is the F130R? Can the keyboard be removed from the cabinet for travel?

@all - How does the ES7 compare to the F130R? Does the ES7 features justify the extra cost?


I dont recommend the F-130R as a portable option. Taking it apart is not the easiest thing on earth. You'd be better served at a similar price by the FP-50. It has similar capabilities. It has the one generation old Ivory Feel G compact action. Not the newer PHA-4 Standard that the F-130R has. But it's one of our most popular pianos and has been for a long time.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321353 - 08/29/14 12:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Starboard
I don't think lolatu is being at all hostile in his posts; I appreciate his desire to cut to the specific and the relevant technicality of a subject (his Grand Feel key clinic thread is one of this forum's most fascinating and valuable to anyone interested in how these instruments actually work (***)--it gave me both anxiety and confidence when I was waiting for my MP11 to arrive), and I think his posts to this thread are quite in line with that perspective and will be valued by anyone interested in the F-130R or Roland's actions more generally. I'll say that I personally had a heck of a time understanding the tiering of Roland's actions when I first began looking into DPs several months ago: Ivory Feel-G, Ivory Feel-S, PHA3, and then the three PHA4 variations on top of them all. If you're coming into the market mostly blind, as I was, it's going to be a lot to take in (an RP301 with Ivory Feel-G was the very first model I tried back in May as part of my own DP purchasing decision journey). Without this forum, and without reading some of the previous discussions on this very subject, I don't think I'd ever have fully understood where each of these actions fit into the greater context of Roland's offerings--and an understanding of this greater context is necessarily important for any customer looking to get the best value for their money.

And Jay, I appreciate your presence on this forum, too! I hope you aren't seeing hostility where it isn't intended.

*** Extra shoutout along these lines to dewster's invaluable DPBSD and DPs Exposed threads.


The thing that people forget is, we can't make two versions of an instrument. You can't just change out the Ivory Feel G in the FP-50 for the newer PHA-4 Standard. That change would definitely be reserved for an eventual new model.

The factory only has so much bandwidth for creating new instruments. So at this years NAMM show, we released a bunch of new instruments with the PHA-4 variants. There's always development going on, but two hardware versions of one model wouldn't ever happen.

So as models get replaced over time, the newer actions go into the newer models. NAMM was the introduction of the PHA-4 series of actions, with additional instruments with variants of that action making their way to market since then. So you can bet that moving forward, PHA-4 and its variants will find their way into more and more new models as they're released.

It's a delicate balancing act that someone outside of the design and manufacturing teams could never understand. There's only so much that I can say publicly. But I still believe that accusing Roland of deliberate obfuscation and attempts to confuse the public is hostile. Which is why I took affront.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2323245 - 09/02/14 04:52 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi:

My Roland F-130R finally arrived this past Friday. I will write a detailed review of it in the next few days.

But I just wanted to chime in on this recent discussion about whether consumers are confused by the naming convention of the Roland's different piano actions.

I state this from the context of being a consumer, and also being a marketing guy for the past 24 years, as well as launching a successful website.

As a consumer, I was not confused.

That's because in the naming convention of PHA-4 Standard the PHA-4 Premium, the words "Standard" and "Premium" have a very powerful effect. One is perceived as significantly better than the other both emotionally and intellectually.

The message to me personally is "Toyata vs Lexus" from an emotional, non-analytical stand point.

In terms of marketing, I think you probably one to use the thematic core, just like Apple uses "i" in front of Pod, Pad, Cloud in front of very different devices.

Otherwise, the consumer is confused. If Roland named used entirely different naming conventions, instead of PHA-4 Standard and PHA-4 Premium, then that would be confusing because there were be no indication of "good," "better" or "best" in the naming itself.

Do I find PHA-4 Standard and PHA-4 Premium misleading? To it boils down to what happens when sit in front of two pianos one with PHA-4 Standard and the other PHA-4 Premium. Their design could be similar or dramatically different when you tear it apart.

However, if I perceive that both are good, but one is better and more refined than the other, then I don't see where the consumer is being mislead.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/02/14 05:56 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2323734 - 09/03/14 03:38 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
That's because in the naming convention of PHA-4 Standard the PHA-4 Premium, the words "Standard" and "Premium" have a very powerful effect. One is perceived as significantly better than the other both emotionally and intellectually.

The message to me personally is "Toyata vs Lexus" from an emotional, non-analytical stand point.


Or, given that Roland is considered to be a premium brand, we can call it Lexus ES vs. Lexus LX.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328430 - 09/17/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 5
Loc: Scotland
Sushi,
Im a complete beginner and have been lurking and reading this thread for a while and took the plunge to buy a F130. In the showroom my partner said she thought the Roland a bit to synthetic for her ( she has a "real piano" :>) ) but on the basis of the many reviews, youtube demos and the feel of the keyboard as well as what I thought in the showroom to be a nice Grand sound I went ahead. Having got it home and started playing I find the "splendid" grand sound not so good especially on head phones. At either end of the keyboard each note sounds pretty realistic with a relatively fast decay when the key is held down. However, around middle C the notes sound quite digital and the decay seems extended and "buzzy". It just doesn't sound right. I've spoken to the showroom about this and in all fairness they have offered to swap the keyboard if Im not happy with it. I cannot complain about their service in anyway and their Roland specialist has offered to test another F130 and let me know what he thinks - I'm also going to go in do this but I would appreciate your opinion now that you have an F130. One other thought is on playing some of the demo tunes the sound is much brighter and crisper than I can achieve through the keyboard. I'm only just starting out with the piano so cannot play much at this stage but I do find the Grand setting bordering on unpleasant and synthetic around mid range. Yet - Roland happily sell this keyboard on the basis of the quality of the Grand Piano sound. Hence, my puzzlement.

Is this a characteristic of Roland or am I expecting too much and have fallen foul of having not tested enough keyboards before buying? Is it possible that this keyboard is faulty even? I have tried other piano settings and the "rock keyboard" sounds more like a real piano tone than the Grand setting which makes me wonder about this.


Edited by macbrin (09/17/14 03:23 PM)

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#2328478 - 09/17/14 05:38 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
macbrin,

It sounds like you may like the Bright grand tone more for your taste. That's the third piano sound on the F-130R.

Piano tones are very subjective, and generally we find most people do like our main Grand Piano tone. I regret you don't enjoy it.

Please give the Bright Grand tone a try before you give up on the F-130R. We do include three main Supernatural pianos for different piano tastes.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328521 - 09/17/14 08:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
gg22 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: macbrin
but on the One other thought is on playing some of the demo tunes the sound is much brighter and crisper than I can achieve through the keyboard. I'm only just starting out with the piano so cannot play much at this stage but I do find the Grand setting bordering on unpleasant and synthetic around mid range.


Try to change velocity response to "light".

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#2328647 - 09/18/14 07:08 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 5
Loc: Scotland
Jay, QQ22, thanks for your responses.

I have played with the response velocity setting and it doesnt make too much of a difference to what I hear. (Perhaps my technique needs to be vastly improved??) I settled for the L1 setting last night. I will listen to the Bright Grand when I get back home tonight. I realise that different people will have their own opinions of the sound quality but I am surprised at how synthetic the first grand tone sounds mid range compared to the other extremes of the keyboad.

As I said earlier it just doesnt sound right and its this that i worry that Roland may either have wrong here OR as I said in my intial post there is ( being careful - possibly) a fault with this unit. Its a lovely keyboard so I do not want give up on it just yet. Im still waiting from feedback from the shop and will telephone them later today and arrange to go in and listen to another F130 before coming to any conclusions. I will post back once I have had a chance to do this.

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#2328686 - 09/18/14 09:27 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I went to a store and played the F-130R today, which I was really excited about. I'd love to buy this IF I can get the settings to fit my preferred sound.

There are a few things I like about it. I love the cabinet style, and I really love the keys.

Unfortunately, I had the same experience as the above poster. The upper end sounded nicest, then the bass sounded pretty good, but the middle range of the keyboard felt quite muffled. I assumed it was to do with the speakers, but I hope I'm wrong. I played some brighter piano tones, but I don't think it was 3. I think it was 8, but it's not a number I'm likely to remember.

I have a few weeks until I have enough to buy it, so if you can help me get a better sound out of it, that'd be great. Otherwise I'll have to turn away from it because that mid-range isn't doing it for me.

I have a feeling it's the brightness (or lack thereof) of the mid-range that's putting me off most. How can I change the settings to make the tone brighter? What other settings can I change to get the sound I like (and how)? Like someone mentioned above, how can I change the "velocity response" if that might help?
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

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#2328701 - 09/18/14 10:25 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Macbrin, Maechre and Friends:

I've had my F-130R for roughly three weeks so and have admittedly "disappeared" from sight because I've been enjoying it so much. But I was intending to come back and write my review -- so you'll see when you scroll down a bit.

Quote:
Having got it home and started playing I find the "splendid" grand sound not so good especially on head phones. At either end of the keyboard each note sounds pretty realistic with a relatively fast decay when the key is held down. However, around middle C the notes sound quite digital and the decay seems extended and "buzzy". It just doesn't sound right.

Regarding your impressions of the sound, you'll also find a wide variance of brightness between the finest grand pianos in the world. In terms of uprights, for example based on my experience, Kawais are brighter than Yamahas.

Plus, as Jay Roland stated, on the F-130R you have your choice of different piano sounds. I actually prefer #1 which is a grand piano sound.

Anyway my review is below. I am a top 500 Amazon reviewer and I also posted a similar review there too, although I changed a few things here for the piano enthusiast crowd here.

My Review of the Roland F-130R

I am very happy with the Roland F-130R I recently acquired to replace my Yamaha P-155.

It's not perfect, but having tried many in the $1500 and under-$2000 price range, I am confident I made the right decision. Here are the highlights where I've rated each feature from A to F (yes, like a report card):

A+ | The keyboard action. I find that the PHA-4 Standard keyboard action is just the antidote for the increasing frustration I had had with my Yamaha P-155's. The Roland is not too heavy and not too light. I know that we can split hairs on a number of issues and there are much more expensive keyboards out there that are more refined, but I really can't tell the difference between this and an acoustic action.
A- | Piano sound accuracy. Every note I play sounds natural. When you play multiple notes, you hear the resonance between the strings. Of course, it's all digital. But it sounds very real to me.
B- | Speaker system. The very first impression I had was, "Great piano sounds coming from two speakers." Ideally, I should not notice that the sound are coming from speakers. This sort of diluted the organic sound from Roland's piano simulations. I believe Jay Roland has alluded this before in that the Roland piano sound has the same genetics as what you see across different models, the method of delivering that sound is the main variable if you, say, compare the F-130R to the V-Piano. POSSIBLY, this has given the impressions that Maechre and Macbrin alluded to. But they should also try the other piano sounds that are included as well.
A | Speaker loudness. When you crank it up -- your neighbors will hear it -- with no distortion.
C + | Pedal Travel. Even though Roland has continuously variable dampening, the short pedal travel makes it feel like an off-switch.
A+ | Cabinet. I was delightedly surprised that this came in an all wood, black cabinet. Just an elegant piece of furniture that make a nice addition to the living room. Unlike the keyboard stands that are typically used for digital keyboards, it's solid with no wobble even when you boogie woogie the keys hard.
A+ | The Lid. It has a lid that covers all the keys and button controls -- and protects it from dust.
C | Music Holder. Unfortunately, the lid also doubles as the music holder. There is no way to keep anything on it with the lid closed. This is an inconvenience if you like to leave your music (or my case, iPad) on the holder.
A++ | Headphone Ambiance. It's a good thing that most of my use of this keyboard is via the headphones. It's sound is incredible. Through special sound processing, they sound the way it would sound without headphones on. In fact, when I play late at night, it sounds so real that I have to take the headphones off to make sure they're not blaring through the speakers and waking everybody up!
B | Volume BUTTONS! For some reason, Roland uses a down button and an up button to control the volume. Nothing compares to have a knob. You do get use to it after awhile, but I see no reason that buttons should ever be used to control volume on a musical instrument.
A | Fun stuff. Like many keyboards, the Roland has different piano sounds, rhythms, canned music as well as musical instruments to play around with.
A+ | iPad integration. I love this!!! You can access most of the Roland's features through a free iPad app. It make jumping around to features a lot faster and easier.
A+ | Plays MIDI files. I put my favorite MIDIs on a flash drive, plug it in the Roland, turn it and it plays them.

The Roland F-130R is my 5th digital piano. While my review may sound a bit critical, it's just that after gone through this many pianos, I notice more. To put it in perspective, if you put me in front of a lot acoustic pianos, I'll probably have as many critical things to say about them as well.

The bottom line is this -- this really by far, the best digital piano I've owned (so far) and in my opinion, at the top of it's class in the $1500 price range.

I also wanted to mention that I had two other candidates in this price category, before I got the Roland: the Kawai ES100, a little less than $2000 and the Kawai ES7 for $800. I was not able to find a place close by to try them out, so had to eliminate them from consideration, at least this time around.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/18/14 01:03 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328791 - 09/18/14 05:01 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
One other thing I'll add to my review is that the Roland F-130R is strong in the areas that are most important to me:

1) Action
2) Piano sound accuracy

In terms of sound output, it's a function of the Roland's simulation plus the sound system. I rated that a B-, but at the end of the day, okay enough it does not dampen my enthusiasm for this great digital piano.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/18/14 05:02 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328812 - 09/18/14 06:19 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: macbrin
Sushi,
. . .
Is this a characteristic of Roland or am I expecting too much and have fallen foul of having not tested enough keyboards before buying? Is it possible that this keyboard is faulty even? I have tried other piano settings and the "rock keyboard" sounds more like a real piano tone than the Grand setting which makes me wonder about this.


PMFJI --

1. Almost certainly, it's not a "fault" with that particular sample. If the loudspeakers were buzzing, that would be a "fault". But if you hear the same problems with sustained notes with headphones, that you hear with the speakers:

. . . that's probably the "Supernatural" sound.

2. If the "rock piano" sound seems more natural to you, than the "grand piano" :

. . . maybe your ears need to be re-calibrated? <g>

This is not an insult. We become accustomed to things sounding a certain way, and it becomes "right" to us. "Rock piano" is typically volume-compressed, and (I think) a bit brighter than an acoustic. Roland may have done things differently.

Try playing an acoustic grand piano for a while -- no recordings, they've all been processed! Then go back to the Roland, and see what you think.

3. The high-end Rolands have fairly extensive "sound shaping" menu options. You can adjust hammer hardness, frequency equalization (very powerful capability!), and lots of other things. Check what's available on the F130. At the least, it should have a "Brightness" control in its menu.

. . . That's where I would start.

The factory menu settings aren't sacred. They are somebody's idea (or a committee's idea) of how the piano should sound. Your idea may be different, but it's just as valid.


Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

PS -- as a Casio owner, I have no dog in this fight. A salesman I respect was quite impressed by the F130, and it sounded pretty good when I heard it. I haven't played it.


Edited by Charles Cohen (09/18/14 06:28 PM)

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#2328920 - 09/19/14 05:54 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 5
Loc: Scotland
I had a lengthy discussion with the store I bought this from yesterday and Ive agreed to go in and compare the sound of another F130 they have in. The Roland specialist I'm dealing with is great and extremely helpful. Im being offered the option of swapping my keyboard or if I test other Roland models to maybe upgrade to something else if I prefer the sound of another instrument. I couldnt wish for a more helpful and sympathetic store. I sat and practised last night with the response set to L1 and also played with the other piano sounds. The grand sound was more palatable but still nowhere near what i expected especially mid-range. I remain of the opinion that the Roland Grand sound is not as realistic or of the the quality ( on my keyboard ) that Roland say it is. But I remain open minded and cannot disagree with the last poster in that it could still be my ears at fault. I will have also have access to a real piano this weekend so can I will post back once I have had an opportunity to compare keyboards next week. Sushi does give me confidence that this IS a quality keyboard so Im definately not giving up on this and whether it is me being overly fussy( simply wrong ??) or an issue with the keyboard I'm sure I will resolve this soon.

One final thing a question for Jay, The store said that they will also check to see if ther are any software upgrades pending - just in case. Have you any idea if Roland are preparing any firmware updates for the F130?

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to my postings here - I apologise if I have derailed this thread in anyway.

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#2328922 - 09/19/14 06:18 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Shey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 338
Loc: Greater Manchester, England
Sushi, did you get the prices of the Kawai's you mentioned mixed up? The Es100 is a lot less than the Es7 in the UK.
If I could get an Es7 for the equivalent of $800 I would buy it today.
_________________________
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Alfreds Masterworks Classics Level 1-2
Fundamental Keys
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#2328967 - 09/19/14 11:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

I highly doubt that. If it's the same as the F120, then brightness and reverb can be changed by holding down the grand piano button and pressing + or -, or holding down the other instruments button and pressing + or -. Sorry, I can't remember what the buttons are actually called, but I'm sure you get the point.

Some clarification on this would be great. I just saw it in a video while obsessing over the F130, haha.
_________________________
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#2328973 - 09/19/14 11:46 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: macbrin

One final thing a question for Jay, The store said that they will also check to see if ther are any software upgrades pending - just in case. Have you any idea if Roland are preparing any firmware updates for the F130?

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to my postings here - I apologise if I have derailed this thread in anyway.


Hi macbrin,

I can't see any firmware updates that are available, and don't know of anything coming down the pipe. But Roland Japan surprises even me sometimes, and it could mysteriously show up.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328974 - 09/19/14 11:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Maechre]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Maechre
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

I highly doubt that. If it's the same as the F120, then brightness and reverb can be changed by holding down the grand piano button and pressing + or -, or holding down the other instruments button and pressing + or -. Sorry, I can't remember what the buttons are actually called, but I'm sure you get the point.

Some clarification on this would be great. I just saw it in a video while obsessing over the F130, haha.


There's nothing in the owners manual regarding changing the brilliance or brightness.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328981 - 09/19/14 12:26 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
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Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
That's a shame, as I generally liked the Grand 1 piano tone but found the middle area a bit mallow. I am used to my Casios (PX-730 and PX-150), so I'll play the F130 a few more times in store and see if I become more attuned to the different tone.
_________________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2329044 - 09/19/14 04:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Shey]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Whoa! Yes, that was a huge error on my part. You are rigtht, I got the price reversed big time.

Quote:
I also wanted to mention that I had two other candidates in this price category, before I got the Roland: the Kawai ES100, a little less than $2000 and the Kawai ES7 for $800. I was not able to find a place close by to try them out, so had to eliminate them from consideration, at least this time around.


Thanks for pointing that out. Took bad I can't edit it.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2329076 - 09/19/14 06:39 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Charles Cohen Offline
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Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
FWIW --

I just spent a little while test-playing an F-130R, through headphones.

Any DP with "realistic" variation of tone, when you hit the keys harder, will start to sound "clangy" at some loudness. This matches the behavior of an acoustic piano -- the harder you play, the brighter the sound.

On the F-130R, that "clangy" quality (some might call it "metallic") starts at a lower key velocity (softer touch) than I'm used to. And it starts at a lower key velocity on the F-130R, than on the Roland RD-80 next to it.

. . . You really have to pound on the RD-80 to make it clang.

And I think (but won't swear) that the RD-80 never gets quite as clangy as the F-130R.

I think the first thing I'd do (if I had an F-130R) is change the "Key touch" setting, from the default "M" (medium) to "H1" or "H2" (heavy).

That would give a gentler sound (for my playing), and might be more appealing. Unfortunately, I didn't have a manual handy, to test that.

There is an underlying question here, that I've never seen addressed:

. . . To sound "natural", how should the increasing "clang", and the
. . . increasing fundamental-frequency amplitude, be related?

That's something the manufacturer has to address when he designs the sound engine. And it's something that the manufacturer could let the owner vary, I think.

. Charles

PS -- as a very subjective judgement: the RD-80 just plain sounds better than the F-130R. They might both have "Supernatural sound engines", but I don't think they're the same. I think the RD-80's keyboard is one generation behind the F-130R, but it's really nice to play. It's also more expensive, of course!<g>

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#2329080 - 09/19/14 06:51 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3101
Loc: Oregon
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.
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#2329137 - 09/19/14 10:16 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
If it was the RD800, the action is from the PHA-4 series, the same generation as the key bed from the F-130R. It's called the PHA-4 Concert Action. the F-130R has the entry level PHA-4 Standard action. If Charles is shopping at the retailer I think he is, they don't carry the FP Series, which leads me to believe it is the RD-800.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2329153 - 09/19/14 11:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: voxpops]
Charles Cohen Offline
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Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.


Oops -- it was an FP-80. The "home" DP, with speakers, not the "stage piano".

.. .. at Long & McQuade / Terminal Avenue, Vancouver.

. Charles

PS -- I heard a live jazz show recently. Watching and listening to the (digital) pianist, and everyone else, I had two epiphanies:

1. "String resonance" is useless in that situation. The string resonances are softer than the sound of a drummer using brushes. They'll be completely lost in the noise of the ensemble, even during solos.

2. I would _really want_ a front-panel-adjustable EQ, and a front-panel-adjustable compressor. If the piano doesn't sound quite right, I'd want to fix it without diving into the menu system!

But that's a different story from the F-130R.


Edited by Charles Cohen (09/20/14 12:01 AM)

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#2329214 - 09/20/14 08:34 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3101
Loc: Oregon
Thanks for clarifying, Charles.

Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
PS -- I heard a live jazz show recently. Watching and listening to the (digital) pianist, and everyone else, I had two epiphanies:

1. "String resonance" is useless in that situation. The string resonances are softer than the sound of a drummer using brushes. They'll be completely lost in the noise of the ensemble, even during solos.


That may be true, and sometimes jazz players prefer a crisper sound, anyway. However, if you're using your DP for recording and studio use as well as on stage, you may well want the full range of resonance available to you - and that was my main beef with the Yamaha CP4/40.

But that's also not the whole picture when it comes to stage use. I had a gig last night and decided to use the PX-5S / Pianoteq combination that I find to be an excellent marriage. I switched between the D4 and the Bluthner for AP, and the damper resonance was very audible to me - it swirled around in a very convincing manner. I can't say for sure how much effect the sympathetic string resonance contributed to the overall sound, but it was a pleasure for me to play those full-bodied pianos, particularly on slower, expressive pieces - and that helped with inspiration. (The only thing that I find lacking in the stage version of Pianoteq is the ability to sharpen up the damper response, as I could use swifter string damping for jazz oriented numbers. Maybe I should try the K2 for that.)

Quote:
2. I would _really want_ a front-panel-adjustable EQ, and a front-panel-adjustable compressor. If the piano doesn't sound quite right, I'd want to fix it without diving into the menu system!

Quite a few stage DPs have front panel EQ, including the CP4, PX-5S and MP7 (providing you hold the EQ button for a moment first). I think that the CP4 has the best system, as using sliders gives you an immediate visual reference of what you've done, and it's very quick to sculpt an EQ curve with them.
_________________________
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#2329259 - 09/20/14 11:47 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.


Oops -- it was an FP-80. The "home" DP, with speakers, not the "stage piano".

.. .. at Long & McQuade / Terminal Avenue, Vancouver.

. Charles


Ah so not the retailer I was thinking. Ok so the FP-80 has the Generation old Ivory Feel-S Action, still very good.

The one thing I love about the FP-80 is the how immersive the built in Speaker system is. The 2 acoustic projection speakers on each end of the keybed really help to build a fantastic soundscape on their own. Until the RD800, the FP-80 was one of my favourites from our line.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2329935 - 09/22/14 12:11 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Jay, and those with the F-130r,
In this review previously linked, they mentioned under the heading "Voices" that "we can also lighten or darken the piano using the function Brilliance". Are you sure this isn't an option?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...366%26bih%3D643

If it isn't, can you please tell me how I can change the Touch Response or "key lightness" or "velocity response" so I can somewhat play with the settings next time I play the piano, just so I can fine-tune the tone a little more? (It's just this one little thing that's keeping me from making this a purchase: that lacking middle tone.)

I'll be taking headphones with me next time, but it won't be primarily used with headphones (if ever) so I'd like it to sound good on its own. I'd consider getting some plug-in speakers. If I got these ones second-hand ( http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-2300-TH...=Logitech+Z2300 ), would they sound okay sitting under the piano? Maybe I'm going overboard with those.


Edited by Maechre (09/22/14 12:13 PM)
_________________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330028 - 09/22/14 05:02 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Found it!!!

On Page 2 of the Manual in the "Selecting Sounds" section at the top of the page.

Hold down the [OTHER] Button and Press the [+] or [-] to adjust the brilliance.

My bad. Too much going on these days.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2330116 - 09/22/14 09:46 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
The "Key Touch" adjustment is on p. 12:

To get into "Function Mode":

Quote:

Basic Operation in Function Mode

1. Hold down the [Metronome] button and press the [Split]
button.
Function mode is selected.

2. Use the [-] [+] buttons to select the function that you want
to set, and press the [s] button to display the setting
screen.

3. Use the [-] [+] buttons to adjust the setting.
Press the [s] button to return to the previous screen.

4. Hold down the [Metronome] button and press the [Split]
button to exit Function mode.


And the adjustment for "Key Touch" (F01):
Quote:

F01
Quote:
F (Fixed),
L2 (Super Light),
L1 (Light),
N (Medium),
H1 (Heavy),
H2 (Super Heavy)

Adjusting the Keyboard Sensitivity (Key Touch)

Heres how to change the way in which the sound responds to your keyboard dynamics. You can adjust the response as appropriate for your playing strength


. Charles

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#2330159 - 09/23/14 03:18 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks, guys! I'm looking forward to playing around with it again this week.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330442 - 09/23/14 10:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
On Page 2 of the Manual in the "Selecting Sounds" section at the top of the page.

Hold down the [OTHER] Button and Press the [+] or [-] to adjust the brilliance.

Wow! Thanks Jay. I've been living with this the F-130R for nearly a month and I didn't notice that.

One of the things I wanted to add to my review was "lack of ambiance settings," but in addition to "brilliance" settings there's ambiance there too! It was on page 2, right in front of me.

I'm looking forward to playing around with this tonight!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/23/14 10:42 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2330543 - 09/24/14 08:39 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Hey even the guys who are supposed to be "experts" miss stuff once in awhile.

Right now I blame lack of sleep and Jet Lag as I'm currently in Toronto visiting dealers.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2330553 - 09/24/14 09:15 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
I played with both the brightness and ambiance settings last night. It makes a HUGE (favorable) difference and, in fact, means I may go back and revise some things I said in my review about the sound.

Actually, given that I posts cannot be edited after a certain time has elapsed, I guess I might have to post an Addendum.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/24/14 09:53 AM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2330599 - 09/24/14 11:51 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
No worries, Jay.

Sushi, that's awesome to hear, especially considering how positive your review was! I went to one of the local stores today and they don't stock it, so I have to go into the city to play it again, which I'll be doing tomorrow. Is the ambiance setting reverb? How do you change it? (So I can test it out along with the brilliance setting.)
_________________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330841 - 09/25/14 07:26 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
All right, I went in for the second time today, and loved it! I didn't play any other pianos this time. I was too intrigued with the brilliance setting and I felt more in touch with the piano. I played with various levels of brilliance and settled on one I liked. 1 was too mellow and 10 was too bright, and I settled on 7 with the main piano sound and played like that for 30 minutes to an hour.

Due to the brighter tone with this setting, I feel like it cuts through the speakers more (in a good way).

I won't play with headphones much, but I did plug mine in to try and it was a good experience. Clear. I don't think it has that buzzy looping sound that my Casio PX-150 has. (If it does I didn't notice it as much.)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330929 - 09/25/14 01:57 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 200
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a follow up question for Jay -- I'm now back in the market for a keyboard, not for myself, but now for my sister (big birthday coming up), someone who is looking for a "home" DP. I just love, love, LOVE my RD800, the sound, the action, the power/flexibility, the everything. Are there any Roland home keyboards that utilize the same action and basic engine as the RD800 but with powered speakers. I've been through the Roland site but am confused. I guess what I'm looking for is something like an FP-80 with or without an attached stand, but with the PHA-4 premium or concert action.
_________________________
Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800

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#2330960 - 09/25/14 03:47 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Maechre]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi, I'm glad you were able to adjust the brightness setting at the store.

As for your question:
Quote:
Is the ambiance setting reverb?

Yes and I think it does more than reverb. It just more spacious and alive.

In my original review HERE, I expressed that was overall super happy to be a new owner of the F-130R. But I felt the speakers didn't do it justice.

It felt like I was playing my piano in a closet.

However, the newly discovered Ambiance Setting really address that issue big time, to where I can feel I'm playing in a concert hall or whatever room I wish.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/25/14 04:28 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2331344 - 09/26/14 08:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: petes1]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: petes1
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a follow up question for Jay -- I'm now back in the market for a keyboard, not for myself, but now for my sister (big birthday coming up), someone who is looking for a "home" DP. I just love, love, LOVE my RD800, the sound, the action, the power/flexibility, the everything. Are there any Roland home keyboards that utilize the same action and basic engine as the RD800 but with powered speakers. I've been through the Roland site but am confused. I guess what I'm looking for is something like an FP-80 with or without an attached stand, but with the PHA-4 premium or concert action.


The DP-90Se. It's the beautiful home equivalent to the HP506 and has the same PHA-4 Concert action as the RD800.
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2331389 - 09/26/14 11:42 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 200
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
The DP-90Se. It's the beautiful home equivalent to the HP506 and has the same PHA-4 Concert action as the RD800.


I've checked out the specs, and it looks phenomenal in that it has many of the features that I love about my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and a nice but not intrusive cabinet. It may be just what I'm looking for, thanks! Time to talk to the siblings!
_________________________
Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800

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#2332558 - 09/30/14 11:04 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Hi, I purchased F-130R about two weeks ago. No doubt it has rich sound, comparable to Yamaha Clavinovas. But what has been bothering me is while playing, I hear varying 'clanking' or 'thumping' sound inside the panel. Like wooden pegs hitting each other. It really sounds like something loose inside. Definitely, it distracts my focus.

I am attaching a link to a video i took last night. In the video, I turned the volume down to zero for clarity purpose. But even with the volume cranked up to 50, the unpleasant 'knocking' sound could still be heard. You can see that I continuously pressed a couple of keys without hitting the floor or base (3/4 way down and 3/4 way up). I have done the same test on Yamaha CLP 545, Roland HPi-7, Kawai KDP 80 and few others including acoustic pianos. None of them produced 'clanking' sound inside the panel.

I need favor from those who own F-130R to apply the same test and verify whether it is just my unit or it is a common issue. Hope you can give feedback as soon as possible. Thanks.

Click here to see the video..

crazy

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#2332644 - 09/30/14 03:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Have you had a chance to compare it to a floor unit at the dealer? Have you contacted the retailer who sold it to you?

Have you also contacted your local branch of Roland in your country?


Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2332705 - 09/30/14 06:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Have you had a chance to compare it to a floor unit at the dealer? Have you contacted the retailer who sold it to you?

Have you also contacted your local branch of Roland in your country?


Jay


I have gone to the retailer. Unfortunately, the floor unit is out for an exhibition and will be back in shop on Thursday.

As for the local Roland branch, yes I did contact them and send video. They feel it is normal but they are sending a technician on Thursday to check.

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#2332910 - 10/01/14 07:05 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Update:

I can hear the 'knocking' sound with headphone on. Volume on headphone was set to 35. Really, really hope it is just my unit..

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#2332930 - 10/01/14 08:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: shah
Update:

I can hear the 'knocking' sound with headphone on. Volume on headphone was set to 35. Really, really hope it is just my unit..


If the knocking is also in the audio output (headphones) then it`s not defective hardware or mechanical components. If it effects all notes then maybe it`s simulation of piano keyback noise. I have something similar on Pianoteq . . .and you can hear what sounds like key noise on my DP. Bit different to yours though
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2332932 - 10/01/14 08:22 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 5
Loc: Scotland
Sha,

I dont experience any problem with my unit. However, are you able to comment on the quality of the Piano grand tone 1 setting? I'm still undecided on what to do and I'm awaiting a visit to the store to compare other units and other Roland Pianos. On my keyboard the Grand 1 tone around middle C sounds very synthetic. At either end of the range its great but overall it's not at all like I've heard in many of the demos I have viewed on line which all sound bright and quite realistic with or without headphones. I'm also noticing that when on speakers there is a considerable degree of hiss that can be heard. This is not diminished with the volume control either. Its still a nice keyboard but the more I use it the more uncomfortable I feel with the quality of the piano sound. Hopefully I can quickly resolve this through my trip back to the store but in the mean I'm eager to find out what other users think of the piano tones on the F130.

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#2332955 - 10/01/14 09:34 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
The DP-90Se will then be the prime candidate for my next upgrade!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2332961 - 10/01/14 09:43 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I hear varying 'clanking' or 'thumping' sound inside the panel. Like wooden pegs hitting each other. It really sounds like something loose inside.


Hi, sorry for the delay in replying to your urgent sounding post. I definitely do not hear such a sound, even with the sound completely off.

The noise is definitely a defect that goes beyond the thumping that is often heard with digital pianos.

In fact, one of the reasons, I replaced my Yamaha p-155 was because of the loud thumping sounds that were heard by members of my household when I played using headphones.

Roland has done a good job with F130-R in that, while thumping can still be heard, I'd say it's about half as loud as my p155 was.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (10/01/14 12:47 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2332995 - 10/01/14 11:55 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Great to hear that it is just my unit. I will inform the technician about this tomorrow.

Peterws, the noise is coming from outside the headphone. It is too loud to be a simulation of piano key back noise. I have tried several acoustic pianos.

Macbrin, at first I prefer piano sound no. 8 (rock piano). But I begin to like the no. 1 (grand) more. I believe you are right when you say it sounds a bit synthetic. At least, that is what I think after watching various demos online, especially when comparing to the recent Clavinovas, which use CFX Grand. But in terms of sound richness, I think F-130R is at par with Clavinovas, if not better. Even though they are in different class, even though they have different speaker wattage.

I think what Roland means by Supernatural is striking a key hard and striking it soft yield different sounds. It reflects the natural characteristic of a string. Try to hit a guitar string with different strength, you will see the difference.

I normally set the volume at 35 for both speaker and headphone. It is just nice. Setting the volume at 100 will be too loud. I do not hear any hiss sound at all. Be it on speaker or headphone. I am using Roland RH-5 headphone by the way. The 3D ambient effect on headphone is really something. The first time I used the headphone, I thought I didn't plug the headphone well. After ensuring the jack was properly plugged, I then thought something was wrong with the connection. I really thought the sound was coming from the speakers until I took off the headphone and heard no sound when I pressed a key.

Sushi, thanks for the feedback.

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#2333381 - 10/02/14 01:32 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I think what Roland means by Supernatural is striking a key hard and striking it soft yield different sounds. It reflects the natural characteristic of a string. Try to hit a guitar string with different strength, you will see the difference.

That was one of the things I was missing with my old Yamaha P155. With Roland, when I hear that metallic clang when hitting key's harder, it does add to the emotional content of what I'm playing.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2333489 - 10/02/14 06:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Phlox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 122
Loc: The Netherlands
@Sushi

Is the 'musicstand' usable on the F-130R ??
I see some pictures on the net of a small ridge with an Ipad on.

But I wonder if it will hold an musicbook.
Since it misses these little 'clamps' to hold the book from folding shut.
_________________________
10.000 clowns on a rainy day

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#2335261 - 10/08/14 06:46 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
I am back to update. I have tested display units. Unfortunately, they have the same 'knocking' sound. Roland technician explained that the way I tested is not how people actually play piano. But I responded that the sound has been bugging me. That being the case, they offer me for an upgrade. What model should I be looking at? Anybody has a recommendation?? Jay?

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#2335312 - 10/08/14 10:10 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Phlox]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
I think the music stand is useable. But certainly don't see the clips...but then I again I haven't looked. I primarily use an iPad up there.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2335313 - 10/08/14 10:13 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Interesting. I saw you YouTube video and I definitely don't hear a sound that is as loud as it comes across in the video. Of course, it could be that what I consider to be a normal sound, sounds louder on the video because of...well it's a recording.

Another way to for you to test is see if your piano guy has a Yamha p155. Now that, in my opinion is LOUD. Compare it to that.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2335324 - 10/08/14 10:56 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Thanks. To be frank, I just took up piano. So, I didn't know that it is normal. But given the chance to upgrade, what would you recommend? I tested Roland DP90s (PHA III Action) and quite satisfied with it but it is too expensive. I don't know whether the cheaper DP90 (Ivory S) will be the same.

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#2335329 - 10/08/14 11:01 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I also didn't hear that particular knocking sound when I played it. It's a really weird sound to be coming out of a DP.

As far as the music stand clips -- I wouldn't expect to see those on a DP. They're not even on most acoustic pianos. No matter what piano I'm playing, I get all my piano books comb bound so they sit flat. (Comb binding seems stronger and easier to turn than spiral. The ones I got spiral bound had some pages fall out and were hard to turn the page.)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2335352 - 10/08/14 12:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
I wonder if that knocking sound that Shah hears on the F130R is the same knocking sound I hear on my FP-50 in the notes around B4/C5 (same supernatural grand piano sound). I have been using zero ambiance to reduce it, but it is still there a good part of the time as I play pretty heavily on the keys. I think Shah and I have in common that we are both new at piano playing.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2335354 - 10/08/14 12:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The DP-90 is an amazing instrument. One of my favourites in the line. It shares a similar form factor to the F-130R but has a higher powered speaker box, and a different action.

Depending on the Generation of DP-90 it will have PHA-3 Ivory feel S or PHA-3 Ivory feel. (One piece construction on the Ivory Feel-S and two piece on the Ivory feel)

If it is the newer generation DP-90e series it will use either the PHA-4 Concert (on the DP-90Se) or the PHA-4 Premium (On the DP-90e).

All very good. I like the changes on the PHA-4, in that the feeling of the keys bottoming out is slightly less abrupt, and the overall mechanical noise of the keybed when played silently or under headphones, is much quieter.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2335744 - 10/09/14 11:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Tuneless]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
I wonder if that knocking sound that Shah hears on the F130R is the same knocking sound I hear on my FP-50 in the notes around B4/C5 (same supernatural grand piano sound). I have been using zero ambiance to reduce it, but it is still there a good part of the time as I play pretty heavily on the keys. I think Shah and I have in common that we are both new at piano playing.



Yup, just started my first lesson.

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#2337870 - 10/16/14 12:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
Shah, I wanted to know if it was my particular unit, or the FP-50 in general, so I went back to a store carrying the Rolands, and tried another FP-50, and an F-20, both had the hard knock on the same keys. So, if you are looking at a replacement for the F130R, I would not suggest another Roland unless you can afford and want a much more expensive Roland that has more supernatural pianos than the 3 that came with on FP-50, as all of those pianos have the same problem, but the worst keys move a note or 2 between pianos 1, 2 and 3.

I also notice F2 is too loud and Bb4 is too soft. I already equalized this FP-50 to lower the base, as it was too over powering compared to the mid-section.

So, I think it is time for me to bite the bullet and get me the convertible laptop/tablet I have been looking at and buy one of the versions of Pianoteq. This Roland is starting to get on my nerves.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2341505 - 10/26/14 04:31 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
Tuneless,

If you have not changed your fp-50 yet, I suggest you reconsider to keep it for awhile. I believe the fp-50 has access to Piano Partner like f-130r. I found out this software to be really useful for beginners like us.

As far as I know, the only brand which offers similar software is yamaha through its clavinova model. Its complimentary software is called Notestar. But yamaha's notestar is only available in certain countries, not in my country for sure. You have to check with your local yamaha dealer.

If you decide to change to yamaha clavinova, you have calculate the 'switching cost' as digital pianos depreciate a lot.

I am trying my best to hold on to f-130r as advised by several people in 'adult beginner' forum. According to them, we will eventually purchase an acoustic piano. That is when we let go our digital equipment. I hope I can stick to their advice. I am already looking at a couple of accoustic pianos. Fingers crossed smile



Edited by shah (10/26/14 04:42 AM)

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#2341610 - 10/26/14 12:06 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
I have no intention of switching DPs, as I will be using after market sound software soon, and the deficiencies in the Roland samples will not be an issue any more. Also, I really don't like the sound of Yamahas, the mid treble sounds much to bright for me, a worse flaw to me than the hard knock.

I already have an acoustic, but there are times when you don't want to broadcast your practice to the world, so the DP is going to always be useful.

I also got the idea to purchase the DP because I was always disassembling the AP to work on it. Acoustics will have issues from time to time that require regulation/repair, especially if you get a used one. If you are looking at a used acoustic piano, never buy one without a qualified piano tech looking at it before committing to buy. There are huge pitfalls in buying a used acoustic.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2341616 - 10/26/14 12:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
PS. The Roland Piano Designer would be wonderful if they would make it usable with the FP-50, but it currently is not available for the FP-50, only the FP-80.

The Piano Partner, isn't that only for Apple products? I am not an Apple person, and have no intention of ever being so, unless Microsoft gets a whole lot worse than it is.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2341618 - 10/26/14 12:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Tuneless]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
FWIW (this is a general comment):

If you have a DP with an action that you find OK, and you don't like the sound:

. . . Buying Pianoteq, or a sampled software piano, is the
. . . cheapest way to improve the sound.

Even if you need a new computer to run the software, you will probably save money over the alternative:

. . . sell the current DP;
. . . buy a new DP.

I am biased -- I'm running Pianoteq from a PX-350, and I'm happy with it.

. Charles

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#2341646 - 10/26/14 01:43 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
I am an Android person but bought an Ipad to complement f-130r. Yeah, Apple succeeded this time. But I have to admit that I have been learning fur elise through Piano Partner - utilizing right & left hand mode while reading the DigiScore (digital music score). This app makes learning easier in addition to regular piano lessons I am attending. Is there any cool app like Piano Partner? Love this kind of app wink

I am relatively new to piano. So sound wise, I have no idea yet.


Edited by shah (10/26/14 01:44 PM)

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#2341686 - 10/26/14 03:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Hernando, MS
Shah
I'm not familiar with the piano partner app, but you might be interested in synthesia, which takes a sort of video game (like guitar hero for piano in a way)approach to learning piano pieces. Another software option, well more of a service, is piano marvel. It offers computer based instruction, but takes a more traditional approach (reading music is an integral part of the program). I've not used any of this software, but some people seem to like each of them.

warm regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2348926 - 11/12/14 06:18 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
jpdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 2
Hi -

I'm thinking about getting a F130R or RP401R for my 9 year old (how I ended up here). During my research, I was unsuccessful at getting a definitive answer regarding F130R/RP401R's compatibility with Piano Partner and newer generation of iPads. At least in the compatibility chart on their website, Roland does not include iPad Air, Air 2, Mini 2 or Mini 3. I'm having a hard time believing this to be the case as older generation iPads (in new condition anyway) are not even being sold in too many places any longer.

I would appreciate anyone being able to shed some light on this mystery. I'd hate to go out and buy the piano and iPad Air/Air 2 only to learn they are not compatible at using Piano Partner with F130R/RP401R.

Thank you in advance for help.

Cheers

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#2349107 - 11/12/14 12:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: jpdad]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi jpdad:

I can 100% confirm that the Roland F130R works with the iPad Air. There is some set-up involved and you have to get a Netgear N150 USB Adaptor ($16 on Amazon, avoiding the mark-up on Roland's version which does the same thing).

But once it's setup -- it's amazing.

Let me know when get the Roland and I'll be more than happy to get on the phone with you if you need help.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2349109 - 11/12/14 12:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: jpdad]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: jpdad
Hi -
. . .
I would appreciate anyone being able to shed some light on this mystery. I'd hate to go out and buy the piano and iPad Air/Air 2 only to learn they are not compatible at using Piano Partner with F130R/RP401R.

. . .


If "Jay Roland" doesn't answer this, send him a PM and ask.

. Charles

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#2349169 - 11/12/14 02:42 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
jpdad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 2
You are awesome! Thank you for taking the time to respond so quickly. On behalf of my 9 year old, who will appreciate the iPad more than the RP401R (the wife said it looks more "furniture" like), I thank for your time and knowledge.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone knows but it looks like Costco is selling what appears to be the "same" piano but called RP400 with the wireless transmitter for $1300. That seems to be a great deal but I could be missing something.

Thanks again for all the great information.

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#2349197 - 11/12/14 03:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
My iPad is the old iPad 2 and all the apps work just fine.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2351666 - 11/17/14 10:18 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
jpdad,

Sorry, I have been away for a while and just noticed your question. Like Sushi Hammer said, it will work with an Ipad Air.


Just to update, I have just switched from F130R to Clavinova CLP545 solely because the latter has a much quieter key action which helps me to focus and enjoy more. Otherwise, F130R is a great digital piano with its 'supernatural' sound coupled with an abundance of features (far more features than the CLP545 offers).

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#2352544 - 11/19/14 11:00 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
David W Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Kuala Lumpur
Hi everyone,

I tried both F130R/RP401R over the weekend, and found a peculiar resonance/harmonic 'ringing tune' that is very noticeable when C#5 is held longer. This is only evident with the main piano using headphone. I'm now very conscious of it, it detracts playing and annoys me no end as I was very keen on getting this DP. Its not noticeable with the speakers, and not present with other notes or other piano samples.

I plan to visit the shop again this weekend or next to try default/other settings on the main piano, and see if this carries over to the USB recording. Plan to also try other Rolands.

Other than that, I'm very happy with the action, its quiet enough and I'm OK with the remaining mechanical noises, the escapement simulation is also more pronounce (compared to a CLP535). The string resonance is very subtle. Between the two, the RP401R has a more 'organic' tone.

One question I can't find in the manual...is there a record/playback looping function with these two?

Originally Posted By: shah
coupled with an abundance of features (far more features than the CLP545 offers).

Hi Shah, what features are you referring to? Thanks.

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#2352654 - 11/20/14 06:43 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
David W,

It should have the playback/looping function. Although display screen is very basic, you should be able to familiarize with button combinations in few days.

It has loads of rhythms (more than 70 i guess) and you can adjust the tempo as well as well as single out the drum beat. Practice exercises come with accompaniment - you won't get bored until you perfect them. And Piano Partner accelerates learning.

If the key action is quiet, I would have stayed with f-130r. Not sure whether f-130r in my region comes from a different factory since others do not notice the noise i experienced.


Edited by shah (11/20/14 06:45 AM)

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#2352774 - 11/20/14 12:44 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
Shah, are you sure that the key bed noise was from the action itself, or from the sampled piano?

David, when you try the F130R next time, listen to the following notes to see if any of this uniqueness bothers you. These are on piano #1, but just vary a bit with #2 and 3.

F2, G2 seem to have odd twanginess when held at ff to fff (my acoustic has some of this too)

B4 has a hard knock sound that is exaggerated with increasing ambiance. Shifts to adjacent keys on other pianos.

A4 is kind of dead compared to adjacent notes.

This is my experience with an FP-50, but from Shah, I an guessing it is the same on the F130R, and I found some of this on the F120. So they all seem to use the same samples.
For me, all these annoyances will disappear when I start to use after market sound samples, probably Pianoteq.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2352861 - 11/20/14 05:12 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Tuneless]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
For me, all these annoyances will disappear when I start to use after market sound samples, probably Pianoteq.

Don't be so sure about that... there are some rough notes in Pianoteq as well (particularly annoying metallic overtones and buzzes in a few of the notes in the bass end, on the default D4 and K2 models). Maybe it's possible to edit this out using note-by-note editing in the Pro version, but that's 399.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2352864 - 11/20/14 05:25 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Hernando, MS
lolatu,
These kinds of artifacts can show up in real acoustic pianos as well. I think that there's a fear that if you make a sample or model sound too perfect, it will sound unnatural because real instruments aren't perfect. Of course, I would personally rather err on the side of too perfect than cross the bridge over into annoying artifact land. smile
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2353028 - 11/21/14 01:16 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 203
Loc: AZ, USA
But if it bothers me on my acoustic, I can do some work to fix it, add hardener to the hammer of the overly soft note, remove one end on the base strings, roll the string up in several directions to free up any crud embedded in the winds, fix the hard knock by fixing the key bed or adding felt where needed. I have no control over the piano sound samples on my DP, unless Roland decides to extend to the FP-50 their note by note editing that is now available for the FP-80. And if they did, would they make it available for the F20 or F130R?
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2353396 - 11/21/14 07:59 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 39
I had no problem with the keybed noise. The one that bothered me was the 'clack' sound when the keys return to their original positions. Whenever I depressed and quickly released a key, there was that noise.

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#2353452 - 11/22/14 01:24 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3878
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: lolatu
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
For me, all these annoyances will disappear when I start to use after market sound samples, probably Pianoteq.

Don't be so sure about that... there are some rough notes in Pianoteq as well (particularly annoying metallic overtones and buzzes in a few of the notes in the bass end, on the default D4 and K2 models). Maybe it's possible to edit this out using note-by-note editing in the Pro version, but that's 399.


I think that's the beauty of Ptech . . its just like having an acoustic. I love the K2 under lid combined with DP voice. Stunning! Bargain for the price and so much to explore.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2353883 - 11/23/14 10:30 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
David W Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Kuala Lumpur
Thanks everyone who responded. Appreciate your feedback very much.

As I was busy this weekend and couldn't wait for next week, I took a few hours off last Friday to try the Rolands again smile. I visited a different shop, and unfortunately they didn't have headphones so wasn't able to do any critical listening.

Through the built-in speakers, I wasn't able to detect any anomalies. All the notes and harmonics sound natural enough. Thinking about this further, I could use a different piano# for headphone use so it is not a show-stopper. I'm going to give it one last try next week and report back and comment on the other keys/issues.

At a different shop, I tried a Yamaha CLP535 using headphones and my impression is that it has a more 'behaved' sound and harmonics but a bit less dynamic. Please note that I just sat down and played, I don't know the settings and if they can be tweaked, so please don't take this as given/absolute.

BTW on an acoustic piano, the harmonic voicing (is this the right term?) can be adjusted by the tuner to be consistent and balance across the 88 keys. I think in this case perhaps one of the C#5 string is just a bit off and is picked up by the high-res microphone and exacerbated by using headphone.

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#2356113 - 11/29/14 09:22 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: David W]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Hello everybody!
I'm new to the forum. smile
I have been reading for a while now on my quest to find the best digital piano for my needs and ability.
I have encountered the same problem as the OP. Having narrowed it down to just a couple of instruments, I don't have the possibility to try them myself, so your feedback would be greatly appreciated!
I am pretty much settled on the F130R, but have been unable to play it. In the same price range I could get the Casio PX-780/850 or the cheaper 350, with the same action. Also, for an extra 300-500$ (b-stock or new) I could get the Kawai VPC1 or ES7.
Sushi Hammer, if you have tried these other options, could you please give me your opinion?
Also, Charles Cohen, I understand you're playing a PX-350 and have also tried the F130R. Which do you like better as far as action/feel is concerned?
The same question for all of you who've tried any of these.
Is it a huge step-up action-wise to the VPC1?

My main concern is the action. I play mainly classical repertoire. To give an idea on the degree of difficulty, I want to get a piano on which I'll be able to properly play pieces such as Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu, Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement, Albeniz - Asturias, to name some of the really demanding ones.
Is this piano a good choice for this? Unfortunately, my budget pretty much limits me to this, but all feedback is more than welcomed!
Thank you very much!

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#2356134 - 11/29/14 10:24 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
You can play those pieces on any digital piano, from the cheapest to the most expensive.

If you have been unable to play the F130R, don't buy it. Accept that your available options are limited to those which you do have the opportunity to try out.

Given my experience with Roland's previous pianos, I would not want to use their lightweight action for classical. It is not a huge stretch in terms of price to the HP504, and especially not to the HP503, of which there are still a few available. For the extra you get a much better action, more solid cabinet and a better UI. You lose the rhythm accompaniments.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2356175 - 11/29/14 12:12 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Thank you, lolatu!
I looked around for your suggestions in every place that came to mind. The f130r would cost me 900 euros (725 pounds), whereas the cheapest of hp503/504 i could find was 1500 euros (1200 pounds). The first I can order locally, for the other there may also be shipping costs. That's almost twice as much and it's impossible for me to stretch the budget that much unfortunately.
Other suggestions closer to the 1000 euros mark?
It's either that or no piano for now, and I don't know which is worse :P

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#2356363 - 11/29/14 09:42 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: lolatu
Given my experience with Roland's previous pianos, I would not want to use their lightweight action for classical. It is not a huge stretch in terms of price to the HP504, and especially not to the HP503, of which there are still a few available. For the extra you get a much better action, more solid cabinet and a better UI. You lose the rhythm accompaniments.


It's a good thing that the F-130R's never version of the lightweight action, called PHA-4 standard feels much better than the previous Ivory Feel G variant.

I too would recommend that you get your hands on it, and experience it for yourself.

Many of our Canadian dealers and their customers have given glowing reviews of the F-130R and it's bigger brother the RP401R. (same action and functionality in a more traditional Home piano cabinet)

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2356587 - 11/30/14 12:25 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jason L Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 3
My 9 year old is at Level 2A and right now we have an old Yamaha keyboard and his teacher is suggesting we invest in a new piano that has a more natural feel.

the F130 is going for around $1300 where I live but is it overkill for his current development level?

I could find a 7 or 8 year old Roland or Kawai with a more natural feel used for half the price but I'd rather not do that and then have to upgrade again in a couple of years.

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#2356640 - 11/30/14 02:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Hernando, MS
Jason L
By old yamaha keyboard do you mean something with fewer than 88 keys or an unweighted action? If so then you should definitely upgrade to a nicer digital piano. If you mean he has an older yamaha digital piano (like the old P-85 or P-200) then that's probably still fine for someone of his level (and will be for quite awhile).

The F130 is an excellent piano, but there are some cheaper options that might be worth considering. The Casio Privia line is considerably less expensive and has a surprisingly good action and very decent sounds. Also the Yamaha P105 and Kawai ES-100 would be very viable options that would save you a bit of money.

If you decide to upgrade, it would be best (if possible) if you could let your son go shopping and play some of the options in your budget to see which one he likes the best.

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2356650 - 11/30/14 03:03 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Very good judgement, fizikisto!
Could you give me an opinion as well? Which action do you find to be better? The one from the privias, or the F130R action?
Thank you!

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#2356883 - 12/01/14 07:48 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Trevor May Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/14
Posts: 23
Loc: Brighton, UK
Sushi Hammer, I notice that you too used to own a Casio CDP-120, which is my current piano. How does the Roland F120R compare to it? Is it a significant upgrade?

Cheers, Trevor.
_________________________
Casio CDP-120 (with my eye on a white Roland F-130R)

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#2357246 - 12/02/14 12:04 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Trevor May]
David W Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Kuala Lumpur
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
F2, G2 seem to have odd twanginess when held at ff to fff (my acoustic has some of this too). B4 has a hard knock sound that is exaggerated with increasing ambiance. Shifts to adjacent keys on other pianos. A4 is kind of dead compared to adjacent notes.

I went to the shop yesterday with my IEMs. I was kinda surprised that my C#5 issue was less pronounced and I can live with it, and to my hearing didn't find any issue/objection with the F2/G2/B4/A4 notes. I did find on piano #2 a particular chord sounded really really odd but not on piano #1. Oh well, win some lose some...

I found that tracks/songs don't loop (or I can't get it to work) hence you can't lay a repetitive background tune to accompany.

Quote:
Given my experience with Roland's previous pianos, I would not want to use their lightweight action for classical.

Quote:
It's a good thing that the F-130R's never version of the lightweight action, called PHA-4 standard feels much better than the previous Ivory Feel G variant.

There was a HPi-5 and F-20 at the shop. I do not know what PHA key action variant they have, it feels lighter and I do not like it. I also tried a Casio AP-420/PX-130, Kawai ES6/KDP80, and I find all of them a bit too light and/or noisy for my liking.

I have also tried Yamaha P-105/CLP-535/545 at some other shop few weeks back...the 105 is on the lighter side. The CLPs are heavier and between them, 545 feels lighter than the 535. I think Roland's PHA4 Standard is about the same weight and probably slots in between the 535 and 545; I'll have to visit them again to be sure but I have no such need. After a few minutes playing, I don't notice so much the key actions hence I'd be happy with the F130R or the CLPs.

Anyway IMHO, the PHA4 is not at all lightweight, and I think it is good enough for intermediate to advanced level learning/playing. However, for younger fingers something lighter with more fun factors maybe a better first purchase, and the F130R/RP401R I'd say a good upgrade. They remain a good first piano for most people.

In this part of the woods, the F130R is only US$100-150 more than the Casio PX-350 hence I think Roland is the better value.

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#2357250 - 12/02/14 12:24 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 724
Loc: Hernando, MS
Originally Posted By: mcoll
Very good judgement, fizikisto!
Could you give me an opinion as well? Which action do you find to be better? The one from the privias, or the F130R action?
Thank you!


Mcoll,
The Roland has the PHA4 standard action (with escapement and ivory feel) which I've not played (my Roland RD800 has the PHA4 concert action, which is their top of the line action currently). I don't know how different the feel of the roland concert action is compared to their standard action, but I absolutely love the action on my RD-800. If the actions are similar in feeling, as some here have suggested, I suspect I would prefer the roland.

But with that said, I actually have played the privia pianos and I find the action on them to be really good as well. The privia keyboards also have the advantage of being very light in weight (therefore much more easily portable).

The thing is, preferences for actions are so personal that my opinion really doesn't matter in terms of a decision you might make. If you're considering both models, try to find them and test them out. That's really the only way you can find out which action you prefer.

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2357727 - 12/03/14 10:28 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
wanderstomp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 6
I have had the F130R for about a week. My opinion is that the action surprised me in a very good way. I cannot say that I have played much in recent years, but the action feels close to an acoustic, and in such a small form factor. I love it!

Also, it just sounds great (using headphones). I wanted a digital so that I could learn music and screw around without bugging the flatmate. The 3d sound on the headphones is very good. I should have learned by now, but still when playing I feel I have to check to make sure the piano is in fact not playing the music out loud. I have not played much without the headphones, so I cannot express an opinion on how the speakers work. The 3d effect can be adjusted so the piano sounds further away (closer to your hands) which is neat.

I had tried out a few of the lower end digital pianos in the past (YDP142 and P155 I think) and was underwhelmed and did not pull the trigger despite having such an itch. The itch came back and so I took a shot in the dark with the F130R because I wanted a piano, the reviews were generally positive, and Costco had a good deal on it ($1199 versus the standard $1299). I am not disappointed.

I played with a few of the additional sounds. They are fun. I considered picking up an iPad to use Roland Piano Partner. I cannot seem to find a legend in any of the material that came with the piano that show the various sounds that can be played, other than the various piano sounds themselves. Ultimately, I do not think it is worth several hundred dollars just so I can select the tone on a tablet. I do not understand why there is not a simple android app that allows this same functionality given the prevalence of smart phones. I do not have an iPhone, so I cannot express an opinion on how those apps work.
_________________________
Roland F-130R

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#2357741 - 12/03/14 11:19 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Hi Wanderstomp.

The list of tones can be found on page 19 of your owners manual.

Tones 41-305 are all the standard 256 GM tones available on many instruments.

Hope this helps.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2357928 - 12/03/14 10:47 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
wanderstomp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 6
Hi Jay, Thanks, found it. For other users, there may be a few languages worth of the manual between page 18 and "19".
_________________________
Roland F-130R

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#2357991 - 12/04/14 03:47 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 5
Loc: Scotland
Jay,

I would be greatful for your comments on the following:

I've stuck with the f130r and bought a better quality set of headphones. These improved the sound. However I then read David w's post where he wrote:-

"I tried both F130R/RP401R over the weekend, and found a peculiar resonance/harmonic 'ringing tune' that is very noticeable when C#5 is held longer. This is only evident with the main piano using headphone. I'm now very conscious of it, it detracts playing and annoys me no end as I was very keen on getting this DP. Its not noticeable with the speakers, and not present with other notes or other piano samples."

This is exactly what I find uncomfortable with the f130.

Is this a characteristic or "feature" of the way Roland model the tones or is it a problem with the design?

I find that this problem is not always apparent but when it do hear it it becomes really uncomfortable.

I'm also noticing that when playing through the speakers there is a constant and very noticeable hiss. I'm guessing the amplifier gain is permanently at full whack and the volume control merely controls the input from the tone generators. Could this be a fault or is it a characteristic of the Roland design?

Finally, I'm also having problems getting air recorder to work with the f130 and I don't think that it's incompetence on my part - piano partner is great and works well. Air recorder fails to detect the f130. I've tried everything and failed miserably . Is it simply not compatible with the f130?

Brin

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#2358121 - 12/04/14 11:06 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: macbrin
Jay,

I would be greatful for your comments on the following:

I've stuck with the f130r and bought a better quality set of headphones. These improved the sound. However I then read David w's post where he wrote:-

"I tried both F130R/RP401R over the weekend, and found a peculiar resonance/harmonic 'ringing tune' that is very noticeable when C#5 is held longer. This is only evident with the main piano using headphone. I'm now very conscious of it, it detracts playing and annoys me no end as I was very keen on getting this DP. Its not noticeable with the speakers, and not present with other notes or other piano samples."

This is exactly what I find uncomfortable with the f130.

Is this a characteristic or "feature" of the way Roland model the tones or is it a problem with the design?

I find that this problem is not always apparent but when it do hear it it becomes really uncomfortable.

I'm also noticing that when playing through the speakers there is a constant and very noticeable hiss. I'm guessing the amplifier gain is permanently at full whack and the volume control merely controls the input from the tone generators. Could this be a fault or is it a characteristic of the Roland design?

Finally, I'm also having problems getting air recorder to work with the f130 and I don't think that it's incompetence on my part - piano partner is great and works well. Air recorder fails to detect the f130. I've tried everything and failed miserably . Is it simply not compatible with the f130?

Brin


In turn I'll answer everything I can before I start work this morning.

Some resonances affect different people different ways. I haven't heard what you describe, nor outside of this forum have I had any contact with anyone who describes what you are saying. Not to say that it doesn't exist. It is most definitely a characteristic of the note in the SuperNatural Piano sound being exacerbated by either the headphones, or the Headphones Ambience setting.

What is your Headphones Ambience setting turned to? This can have a drastic effect on everything you hear through headphones. Try experimenting with the settings and let me know if there's anything that changes this for you. You should find reference to it in your Owners Manual.

The speaker system and amplifier on the F-130R do, like every other amplifier have a noise floor. Again, outside of this forum, I've had no word from any end user describing the same. If you want to double check that it is similar to other units, you'll want to contact your retailer and see if there is a piano you can compare it to. Although, with the stringent quality control measures that we undertake for every Roland and BOSS product, I do think that you'll find it to be comparable, if not exactly the same as another F-130R.

Air Recorder is not compatible with the F-130R. However, Air Performer is. I use Air Performer pretty constantly to learn new music. It has all the features of Air Recorder, sans recording.

Hope all this helps.

Off to work now.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (12/04/14 11:08 AM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2358373 - 12/05/14 01:09 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: mcoll
. . .
Also, Charles Cohen, I understand you're playing a PX-350 and have also tried the F130R. Which do you like better as far as action/feel is concerned?
. . .
Is it a huge step-up action-wise to the VPC1?


I think that the previous advice is very wise:

. . . Don't buy a DP that you haven't played yourself.

I'm going to go back to the store, and re-try the F130R thinking about "How does this feel?", instead of "How does this sound?".

I can remember the F130R sound generator perfectly well, but I have no memory of the action.

. Charles

PS -- I can't speak to the comparison of F130R action vs Kawai VPC1. Reports on the VPC1 (here, and on the Pianoteq forum) have been favorable.

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#2358423 - 12/05/14 05:02 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Thank you very much for the answer Charles, and I am looking forward to hearing you oppinion!

The previous advice is priceless but I'm still in the impossibility of testing it which makes this rather complicated.
Yesterday I went to all the music stores in the city and have tested all the different mechanics that I have found and my impressions are as follows (in the order of preference):
1. Roland RD700 (the first one with PHA II) - nicest texture of the keys from the tested bunch, the keybed was lively and easily playable even for fast complicated pieces. Even if quite old, it felt really good, but sadly it lagged behind in other aspects so it's not an option. If this felt this good, I can easily understand why people are in love with the PHA-4 concert in the RD800.
2. Kawai CN-34 (with RH2 trisens) - good feel, a bit slower took a bit more force to play at the base of the keys, but overall impression satisfying - unfortunately out of price range, otherwise for the same money I could order the Roland HP-504.
3. Yamaha YDP-162 (GH) - OK, but a bit too much on the heavy/slow side for my taste and somewhat noisy (less important). I was wondering if the GH3 feels different, more playable, or the only difference is the third sensor.
4. Korg LP-380 (RH3) - quite responsive with fast pieces, but not very authentic - I think the keybed was a bit shallow maybe?! Didn't feel like a piano...
5. Casio PX-350 (SHA II, tri-sens) - amazing action for a 500$ instrument if we're talking about px-150 in the States, but if I wanna go for the px780 where I live I'd pay as much as the F-130R, and I don't think it's worth that price. It's pretty responsive but still on the slow side, and takes a fair amount of force to play at the base of the keys. Didn't particularly like the texture, but it wouldn't have been a bother if the mechanics would've been good.
6. Roland RD-300NX (ivory feel-g) - very nice instrument from multiple points of view, but the mechanics didn't cut it for my purpose. It felt quite similar to the Casio I'd say (wish I could've tried them in the same shop, without my hand frozen before I played the Casio). I think it's a very nice stage piano for the price, but the keys are slow/sluggish when it comes to advanced classical repertoire.

I'm a little rusty, since I have rarely played in recent years, but I still found the difference between different mechanics very distinguishable.
Sadly no chance to test the VPC1 or similar action. I suppose it must feel great, after having tested the RH2 which also made a good impression. No chance to test roland's premium/ concert action either. As for the f-130r (or rp401r), testing it is not possible either in the next weeks and I'd like to get it sooner rather than later. I'm trying to fit in the travel plans to test it but it just doesn't work now...

To sum this up, if the action on the F-130R would be close/similar to the CN-34's RH2, that would make it a great choice. I daren't say close to the PHA4 premium since that would probably be more than wishful thinking.. smile
On the other hand if it's close to ivory feel G or the Casio privia line, it wouldn't suit me and I'd be better off waiting some more time.

As previously stated, any input is appreciated and I warmly thank you guys for it!

Coll

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#2358435 - 12/05/14 06:20 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Coll - it is a slightly updated version of the action from the RD-300NX. Enough of the wishful thinking and go get yourself the RD700 if you liked the feel of that!
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2358526 - 12/05/14 12:27 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: fizikisto]
Jason L Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: fizikisto
Jason L
By old yamaha keyboard do you mean something with fewer than 88 keys or an unweighted action? If so then you should definitely upgrade to a nicer digital piano. If you mean he has an older yamaha digital piano (like the old P-85 or P-200) then that's probably still fine for someone of his level (and will be for quite awhile).

The F130 is an excellent piano, but there are some cheaper options that might be worth considering. The Casio Privia line is considerably less expensive and has a surprisingly good action and very decent sounds. Also the Yamaha P105 and Kawai ES-100 would be very viable options that would save you a bit of money.

If you decide to upgrade, it would be best (if possible) if you could let your son go shopping and play some of the options in your budget to see which one he likes the best.

Warm Regards


It's a 76-key DGX-200. It has volume sensitive keys, but no weighting. I do plan to bring him along to check out pianos but I wanted to do some research first.

I checked out the F130 today and it is fantastic! I'll check out those models as well. Some previous generation Kawai's and Rolands are going for $500 - $600 which might be an option as well.

I don't know if it's necessary to make the investment for a digital piano that has all 3 pedals. The F130 does but I'm not sure at which point in his lessons he'd start learning the pedals other than the sustain pedal.

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#2358656 - 12/05/14 06:28 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
FWIW --

After a bit more playing (on an F130R, DP90Se, R-800, default piano tone on all, all with Shure SE215 IEM's):

I think the Roland F130R has a nicer action than the Casio PX-x50's (including my own PX-350). "Nicer" means there's a softer bottoming-out of the keys. There's just a hint of "escapement", but you have to be looking for it, to feel it. Way better than the action on the old R-300.

My complaint about the 'SuperNatural' sound on the F130R persists:

. . . The sound gets "clangy" too soon, as you go from pp to FF.

I was able to change the F130R's "touch" to "H1" and "H2" (harder-than-default). The "H1" setting was quite playable, and moved the "clang" out of the mp-to-F range. So that was an improvement, and it would be what I'd choose to use if I owned the piano.

The "H2" setting eliminated the "clang", but I couldn't get a satisfying FF out of the keyboard. The sound was that of an acoustic with too-soft hammers.

The F130R has a reasonable amount of "string resonance". Maybe not as much as an acoustic, but more than some DP's that advertise that they have the feature.

I didn't know that there's a "Brilliance" adjustment on the F130R; that might have some effect on the clang. And I haven't tried any of the other "piano" voices -- there are

The DPSe was a dream to play. Nice feel, nice sound, yummy. [I took out the IEM's, believing that I'd somehow engaged the loudspeakers and was getting room resonance. No -- I was hearing headphone sound. Even with "ambience" and "reverb" turned off, it sounds good.]

The R-800 was also very nice (I was interrupted).

Neither the DPSe nor the R-800 had the clang problem I heard in the F130R. They both got harsher ("brighter"? "more metallic"?) as dynamics went from pp to FF, but they did so more-or-less the same way an acoustic piano would. Both had nicer actions than the PX-350 (which you would hope for, given their costs!)

If you want to use the F130R to drive Pianoteq (or another software piano), I have no problem saying "Yes, it's fine". And what bothers _me_ about the sound generator might not bother you, and it can be tempered by changing the "touch" in the menu system, or (maybe) by reducing the "brightness", or (maybe) by using the "Ballade Piano" voice.

It's a tough decision, when you can't put your own hands on the keys, and use your own ears.

. Charles

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#2358700 - 12/05/14 09:25 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: lolatu
Coll - it is a slightly updated version of the action from the RD-300NX. Enough of the wishful thinking and go get yourself the RD700 if you liked the feel of that!


if it's the original RD700, the RD300NX is 3 piano generations and a full 2 action generations removed from it. If it is the RD700GX, the RD300NX is still 2 generations of piano and one of action removed from it.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2358758 - 12/06/14 03:15 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Jay, unfortunately it is the original, so it's a bit old. As for the rd300 i'm not sure which version it was, I supposed it was the nx but I might be wrong, will call to check.
Lolatu, I'm still keeping in mind your advice but at the time this is the best I can do so I either have to wait some more, either dig some more in my search. The rd-700 isn't an option because of the age and the inconvenience of needing a stand as well as needing to buy a pedal and other reasons. Maybe 900 dollars is an ok price, but I don't think it's worth that much, at least not for me.
Thanks for the very, Charles! Besides the softer bottom, would you say there's also a difference in playability? Is it more agile or it's pretty much the same as the Ivory feel g or the privias?

Thanks everybody,
Coll

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#2358788 - 12/06/14 06:48 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
I called the store to check. It was the rd300nx with the Ivory feel g. I was hoping it would've been an older model given how I ranked it.

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#2358997 - 12/06/14 06:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: mcoll
. . .
Thanks for the very, Charles! Besides the softer bottom, would you say there's also a difference in playability? Is it more agile or it's pretty much the same as the Ivory feel g or the privias?


I can't play fast enough to reach the limit on _any_ of the keyboards we're talking about. Ask a better pianist.

In more than one old thread this question -- "Which DP can be played the fastest?" -- came up. And more than one person said:

. . . RD-300NX

Now, I tried that DP two years ago, and didn't like the action much. But it was light, and fast.

. Charles

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#2359003 - 12/06/14 06:32 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jason L]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jason L
. . .
I checked out the F130 today and it is fantastic! I'll check out those models as well. Some previous generation Kawai's and Rolands are going for $500 - $600 which might be an option as well.

I don't know if it's necessary to make the investment for a digital piano that has all 3 pedals. The F130 does but I'm not sure at which point in his lessons he'd start learning the pedals other than the sustain pedal.


PMFJI (with an opinion you didn't ask for) --

It doesn't make sense to buy a DP _knowing_ that it doesn't have a feature (e.g. 3 pedals!) that you expect to need in the foreseeable future.

You can get a 3-pedal unit on most DP's from the Casio PX-150, on up. [I assume there's one for the Yamaha P105, too.] If you buy something on the low end that _supports_ 3 pedals, you can likely add pedals in the future.

The F130R can certainly be played a lot better than most 9-year-olds can play it. But it's something to grow into. No harder to use than any other DP, for a beginner.

If it's within budget, there's nothing wrong with buying it.

. Charles

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#2359013 - 12/06/14 07:21 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
That's certainly an interesting statement.
I used Isaac Albeniz - Asturias for reference and unfortunately didn't find it sufficiently fast. Just a personal opinion as well, I'm not an expert but on my inexpensive upright I can play it without a problem.

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#2359375 - 12/07/14 09:01 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
David W Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Kuala Lumpur
I agree with Charles.

Buying new I'd get all the pedals there are, and its usually cheaper compared to adding pedals later on. On a DP, you can also select what the pedals do.

BTW...I find piano #2 has less 'clang' with the same 'touch' setting.

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#2359549 - 12/08/14 01:07 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi mcoll:

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

I experienced the same challenge with F-130R in that there was no place within reasonable driving where I would actually try the piano out. So I did all the research that I could, especially watching a number of YouTube videos where people are actually playing it, as well as reading every mention of it on this forum.

While I did not consider the Casio's. I've tried the models you mention, but none of really resonated (figuratively) with me.

With all that said, I took a gamble and simply ordered the F-130R and and I was not at all disappointed. In fact over the course of several weeks into playing it, I discovered some settings which made the sound even more to my liking. Added to that...my kids are advanced piano students who practice with an acoustic we have in the house. They have commented that the Roland is the closest to a real piano of the four previous digital pianos I owned in a short 2-year time frame.

With every single Digital piano that I have purchased up until this point I experienced buyers remorse within a few short weeks. This Roland is the one exception to that rule. I was happy from the day that I received it, and I do not have immediate plans to replace it. And when I do eventually get around to it, there's a good chance it'll be another Roland, although the ES7 is always in the back of my mind.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2359615 - 12/08/14 04:03 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
mcoll Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Europe
Hey Sushi Hammer!
Thank you for answering!
I have done every little bit of research and testing that came to mind and was possible and your answer comes a little like the final piece in this puzzle. Seeing you prefer the action to yamaha' GH, which I didn't find spectacular but I thought I could live with, is quite a good omen as far as I'm concerned smile
About the sound, I already played the older F120 and found it very pleasing so I wasn't concerned, as the f130r will be at least just as good. Else there are always virtual pianos out there.
I want to thank everybody that helped me with their valuable opinions and experience!
Tomorrow I'm going to order it and worst case scenario, I'll be able to exchange it for a more expensive model if the touch truly won't suit my preference. Possibly with the Kawai Vpc1/ CN34 / CA15 or the Roland HP504, although supplementing the budget to this extent isn't really possible and only a hefty discount will bring those in range.

Thank you very much and I will keep you posted on my impressions in a week or two when it will (hopefully) arrive.

Coll

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#2359943 - 12/09/14 02:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: mcoll]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 61
Loc: Los Angeles
That's good to hear.

I had to special order mine also and it took about three weeks, which was crazy. I hope you get yours sooner.

Looking forward to hearing back from you when you do.

Good luck!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2361550 - 12/14/14 12:52 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Jason L Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 3


Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: Jason L
. . .
I checked out the F130 today and it is fantastic! I'll check out those models as well. Some previous generation Kawai's and Rolands are going for $500 - $600 which might be an option as well.

I don't know if it's necessary to make the investment for a digital piano that has all 3 pedals. The F130 does but I'm not sure at which point in his lessons he'd start learning the pedals other than the sustain pedal.


PMFJI (with an opinion you didn't ask for) --

It doesn't make sense to buy a DP _knowing_ that it doesn't have a feature (e.g. 3 pedals!) that you expect to need in the foreseeable future.

You can get a 3-pedal unit on most DP's from the Casio PX-150, on up. [I assume there's one for the Yamaha P105, too.] If you buy something on the low end that _supports_ 3 pedals, you can likely add pedals in the future.

The F130R can certainly be played a lot better than most 9-year-olds can play it. But it's something to grow into. No harder to use than any other DP, for a beginner.

If it's within budget, there's nothing wrong with buying it.

. Charles


Thanks Charles, that's the point we're at now...deciding if we want to spend $1400 now or spend a third of that and get something he can use for a couple of years first.

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#2362288 - 12/16/14 10:10 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Trevor May Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/14
Posts: 23
Loc: Brighton, UK
I finally managed to get my hands on an F-130R at lunch today. A white one, too! Definitely my future digital piano upgrade.

A shame it doesn't have quite a nice a finish as the F-120. The original gloss version looked great.
_________________________
Casio CDP-120 (with my eye on a white Roland F-130R)

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#2362307 - 12/16/14 11:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The F-120R was the gloss version, it was quite a premium for the gloss finish. The factory was able to include many new features at the price of the original non gloss F-120. Impressive piano for the money.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2362652 - 12/17/14 08:01 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Trevor May Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/14
Posts: 23
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
The F-120R was the gloss version, it was quite a premium for the gloss finish. The factory was able to include many new features at the price of the original non gloss F-120. Impressive piano for the money.


Yeah, I had the F-120R (red gloss) and the F-130R (white) side by side in the store. The 120R is much prettier, but the 130R has the edge in sound and price.
_________________________
Casio CDP-120 (with my eye on a white Roland F-130R)

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#2362668 - 12/17/14 08:51 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Trevor May]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 560
Loc: UK
Trevor - how did the keyboard actions compare? Any noticeable differences?
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2362770 - 12/17/14 12:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Trevor May Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/14
Posts: 23
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: lolatu
Trevor - how did the keyboard actions compare? Any noticeable differences?


They were very similar, to be honest. Any difference I felt could have been in my mind.

They were next to a couple of Korgs (180 and 380, iirc) which felt smooshy to me.
_________________________
Casio CDP-120 (with my eye on a white Roland F-130R)

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