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#2308707 - 07/29/14 08:00 PM Opinions on Roland F130R
Laerai Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/25/14
Posts: 3
Has anyone tried one of these yet? I can't find a single one to try out in any local store. I'm thinking about buying one, but even YouTube videos are sparse because of how new this DP is.

I would really, really appreciate if anyone has any first hand comments on how realistic the action is, the quality of the sound, etc. in comparison to competing brands like the Yamaha P255 or even to the old F120.


Do you guys think it's the best you can get at 1300 overall?

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#2308965 - 07/30/14 02:26 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Hi Laerai.

As you can see from my signature, I'm a Roland guy.

A few things to know about the F130R.

The Action is new. It's called PHA-4 Standard. It replaces the previous Ivory Feel G action. Definitely a more positive feeling action that has a nice initial throw and bottoms more positively than the previous version. It also includes the separated keybed scanning processor that was first introduced in the V-Piano. So the response is very good as well.

The speaker system is much improved on the previous model, the F-120, and this piano also allows you to connect a USB stick with WAV and SMF format files for song playback AND recording in both formats. You can also use the Wireless Adapter to connect to an iOS device and use some of our free apps with the piano.

Anecdotally, the Canadian retailers who have received their shipments of F-130R have told me that it is head and shoulders above its predecessor, and they really like it a lot.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2308979 - 07/30/14 02:57 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Laerai Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/25/14
Posts: 3
Thanks for the response.

Looks like there's no getting around the fact that new technology is hard to find in stores. I thought that Ivory Feel G was pretty solid though, so if this is better then I might as well give it a shot.

I'm going to order it after I post this, so thanks for the information Jay.

Now to figure out how to close this thread...

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#2308984 - 07/30/14 03:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Portugal
You could close the thread by giving a good review of the F130(R) when it arrives. It would be interesting to know as they are not yet too common.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2308991 - 07/30/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Here's a demo by an Australian retailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gizo1QMEkUM
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2309084 - 07/30/14 08:04 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 66
I'd love to hear some feedback as well. I'm especially curious about how its pedaling system.

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#2309316 - 07/31/14 11:35 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Anything you specifically want to know about the pedaling system?

Please ask.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2309365 - 07/31/14 01:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
UpNorth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 70
Maybe I have an excuse to upgrade from my P-155 to the F-130R. It looks nice.

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#2309445 - 07/31/14 05:12 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: UpNorth]
nameofthewave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 5
Loc: London
There's a review here. He seems to be very positive overall, much improved sound and action.

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#2309448 - 07/31/14 05:19 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: nameofthewave]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Like usual, some factual inaccuracies in that review, but generally pretty positive.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2309564 - 07/31/14 10:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 66
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Anything you specifically want to know about the pedaling system?


Nothing specific that I can put into words. For me, realistic pedaling falls into that "when I see (or rather, feel and hear it), I know it" category.

We have a friendly Roland dealer near us and he thought R-130R would be a good fit for us based on specs but he didn't have it yet and we couldn't wait for him to get it in stock. I can't go back there unless I have childcare since I had the hardest time keeping DD away from their Steinway grands so before I went through all the trouble, I wanted to do as much research as possible. smile

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#2309592 - 08/01/14 12:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The pedals are very good. The half pedaling is on all three and they have a good feel under the foot. Nothing strikingly different than the HP Series to me. So if you liked the resistance and response of those (if you tried them) you'll like the pedals on the F-130R.

I had an F-130R in white at home for a few months so I got pretty familiar with it. Really enjoyed it a lot more than the F-120 that it replaces.

Just sold it off to a local dealer as a demo model for his sales floor. Next up I'll take a DP-90e and an RD-800 home to use. I'm moving mid month to a new place, so why not enjoy a new piano when i get there.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2310039 - 08/02/14 12:05 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 66
Jay,

I didn't try out pedals on any models when I was shopping since it was primarily for DD who isn't going to reach pedals for many years.

F130-R is starting to sound good, especially for its price. 

Of course, if I could take it home without paying for it, I'd go for DP-90Se in white. It looks beautiful.

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#2310248 - 08/02/14 01:50 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 183
Loc: AZ, USA
I have just posted my review of the FP-50. The F-130R appears to be midway between the F20 and the FP-50, but built into a case. The sound of the supernatural APs I expect to be the same, and the speakers have in common the single combined midrange and tweeter, both of which I comment on in my review.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2310350 - 08/02/14 07:25 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The F-130R is no more related to an FP-50 as an F-20.

The output of the Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

The speaker system, is completely different than that of the FP-50 and the F-20 so bears no comparison at all.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/02/14 11:34 PM)
Edit Reason: for clarity
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310355 - 08/02/14 07:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 183
Loc: AZ, USA
Then I will leave it to the interested buyers to test the piano for the mentioned flaws. If it doesn't have them, then well and good. But then there certainly is no harm in their being made aware of what to test for when they try the F-130R at the dealers. In fact I would like some feed back on all the Roland boards that have multiple supernatural AP sounds, to know if one of more of the APs have this flaw.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2310358 - 08/02/14 07:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Tuneless,

There are no mentioned flaws, as barely anyone has had an opportunity to try the piano as it has just started shipping. As I mentioned in my reply to your "review", there is a reason that there is no mention of this "flaw" anywhere else on Piano World. And that is because it is a normal behaviour of an acoustic piano. That behaviour was captured for the SuperNatural Acoustic pianos.

Simply put, it is not a flaw.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310384 - 08/02/14 09:24 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1385
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
. . .

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

. . .


OK -- this has been bugging me, reading recent threads:

. . . What is "SuperNatural sound", then ?

Maybe I should put it like this:

. . . What do all Roland DP's with "SuperNatural sound"
. . . have in common?

. . . What are the things that distinguish it from other
. . . manufacturer's sound generators?

. Charles

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#2310410 - 08/02/14 10:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
. . .

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.

. . .

OK -- this has been bugging me, reading recent threads:

. . . What is "SuperNatural sound", then ?

Maybe I should put it like this:

. . . What do all Roland DP's with "SuperNatural sound"
. . . have in common?


Each SuperNatural engine is based on a 4 level 88-key multi sample which is taken from several fine concert grands then combined. Then we use some of the modelling from the V-Piano to create 128 levels of expression instead of the 4 that a straight multi-sampled engine would offer. The resonances and overtones are also created by modelling and are dynamic in terms of both timbre and volume. Each have 128 levels as well.

Certain Roland Pianos will give you access to editing those particular resonances etc. The difference between the more expensive and lower priced instruments lies in the amount of editing parameters and cabinetry, speakers etc.

But I want to be clear here, the SuperNatural Piano sound engine has a minimum specification, and we don't currently make a non SuperNatural Piano.

Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
. . . What are the things that distinguish it from other
. . . manufacturer's sound generators?


I can't speak to the technologies and techniques that other manufacturers use, but from reading marketing materials I've surmised that most other manufacturers are using multi sampling for the core sound generation and some modelling for some or all of the resonances.

One other distinguishing factor of a Roland Piano is that there is no specific piano that has been sampled or modelled. The end result is a confluence of sounds to create a Roland piano, instead of a reproduction of any specific concert grand piano.
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310426 - 08/02/14 11:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9320
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
The F-130R is no more related to an FP-50 as an F-20.

The Supernatural sound is different to both of the Boards you mention.


That's interesting. I believe the widely held view here on Piano World is that the 'Supernatural' sound engine is of the same quality throughout the Roland product line-up - i.e. an entry level F20 will have the same sound quality (through headphones) as a top of the range LX-15.

Are you saying that this is not actually the case?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2310440 - 08/02/14 11:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Kawai James]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone.

I explained more in the post above and edited the post you quoted for further clarity.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/02/14 11:35 PM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310445 - 08/02/14 11:52 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9320
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for your reply Jay.

Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone.


Yes, that's true.

But if we take speaker systems out of the equation, i.e. listen through the same pair of headphones, will the F20 have the same sound quality as the LX-15?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2310479 - 08/03/14 01:07 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.

That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2310498 - 08/03/14 03:43 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9320
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for the clarification Jay.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2312615 - 08/07/14 07:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Jay Roland:

Since the review here has had some influence on my views expressed in this thread I started can you share with me your views on it's factual inaccuracies.

I'm really interested in the Roland F-130R. As well as anything related to factual issues, another aspect which is more subjective are comments made on the keyboard's action. I'm interested in hearing your views (and those of others who've played it -- on the action of the F-130R.

Part of my interest has to do with comparing the F-130R with the Kawai ES7.

I know -- Apples and Oranges. Not to mention a fairly hefty difference in price.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/07/14 07:24 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312644 - 08/07/14 08:27 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Good news...for me a least.

On a whim, I called a local Sam Ash (10 minutes away). Of course no F-130R in stock. But the guy who answered the phone has good friends at Roland and is going to arrange to have one shipped over to the store...whether I buy it or not.

Finally! The opportunity to actually try before I buy.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312716 - 08/08/14 12:35 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Trust your fingers and your ears. The rest is just words.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2312757 - 08/08/14 02:02 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3697
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.

That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.

Jay


Enter an enterprising software manufacturer. . . !
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2312878 - 08/08/14 10:02 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
...And this opportunity that opened up to actually play the F130R just 10 minutes away from I live is the preferred way to try a piano.

After all, who buys are car without test driving it?

Actually, I'm amazed because I just reread this entire thread and with the exception of Jay, no one actually played the F130R yet.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/08/14 11:19 AM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2312925 - 08/08/14 11:30 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
It was that way with the RD800 too though Sushi. I got my demo model in November a full two months before it was released, and I wanted to sing from the rooftops. But had to wait for NAMM. Then it was still a few weeks before they were readily available.

Because I work for Roland, I see, hear and touch almost every Roland piano before any end user would have even heard of it.

Once the F-130R gets out there more widely, I'm sure impressions will come in.

But really, these are just words on a screen, and playing the pianos is the proof in the pudding.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

Top
#2312973 - 08/08/14 01:24 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, you can be sure that, assuming these guys at Sam Ash follow through, I'll be trying the F-130R early next week -- and posting a first-hand review here.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313006 - 08/08/14 02:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Portugal
The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.


Edited by toddy (08/08/14 02:34 PM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2313025 - 08/08/14 03:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, according to Roland's specs, they call it:

88 keys (PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel)

So I hope it's close!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313029 - 08/08/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Portugal
Yes, me too! It would make it an excellent piano, also quite compact and good looking, at a relatively low price.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

Top
#2313092 - 08/08/14 05:02 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: toddy
The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.


Its much closer in feel to ITS big brother than the previous version to its big brother. It feels very nice and has an awesome connection to the sound engine.

You will enjoy it.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2313095 - 08/08/14 05:07 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
I am totally looking forward to this. In fact, if it turns out that I get it...I will make every effort to do a video.
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Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2313124 - 08/08/14 06:51 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Phlox Offline
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@Jay:
Can you connect a roland DP without MIDI (almost none of them have a 'normal' midi connector) to another synth or Piano??
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#2314170 - 08/11/14 11:37 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay
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I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2314351 - 08/12/14 12:39 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Starboard Offline
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Posts: 44
I had the chance today to try an F-130R (current generation PHA4-Standard action) side-by-side with an F-20 (previous generation Ivory Feel-G action). There's been some discussion in this thread regarding the difference between these actions, so I'll weigh in with my opinion.

I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it. If you liked the previous generation, you'll definitely still like PHA4-Standard--if you didn't, then I'm not sure if your opinion would be likely to change. It still felt a little "sluggish" to me (a common complaint that I've read about Ivory Feel-G), but I kinda like the feeling of weight that it imparts. I think I personally prefer it over Yamaha's (Arius and early 'P' series with GHS action) and Casio's (Privia line) offerings at similar prices, but I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Worth noting that I have not been able to try Kawai's actions at the sub-$1400 price points and can't offer comparative opinion there. Key-bottoming noise didn't seem significantly different from Ivory Feel-G, but I can't rule out that it may have been a bit quieter.

I like Roland's SN sounds, so no complaints there. If you've liked them or tried them on other models you can expect more of the same from the F-130R. No doubt it will sound much better through headphones than through the tiny built-in speakers.

My pedal opinion is slightly mixed. On the one hand, I love that Roland's left (soft/una corde) pedal is a continuous-state response rather than binary. As far as I know, they're the only ones doing that, and they do it across their whole lineup, RPU-3 standalone pedal unit included. I strongly dislike the binary on-off left pedal in my MP11's F-30 pedal unit, and it's disappointing that (every?) other manufacturers cut this corner. On the other hand, it felt like I had to press down pretty far before the sustain pedal began its response. Once depressed far enough to begin there was plenty of room for graduated partial-sustain playing, but it seemed to me like it took too far to get to the start of the response. Maybe someone with an inclination toward tinkering could find a way to adjust this.

If one likes the action, it seems like it would make a fine choice at its price point.

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#2314460 - 08/12/14 10:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Starboard:

I will be trying out the F-130R later this week. I've not spent much time with Roland pianos in the past. Most of my experience has been with Yamahas, the p105 and currently, the P155, both whose action I've come to dislike as being on the heavy side. The key-bottoming noise has also been an issue which I was hoping would be less with the Roland F-130R.

Since I am comparing Yamaha with the Roland, I'm hoping the difference will be more apparent to me...and most importantly -- to the positive.

I too have wanted to add the Kawai ES100 to the comparison pool, but I can't find any locally. Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

Going into a bit more detail on your thoughts about the F130R's action I have these questions:

1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

Thanks!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/12/14 10:22 AM)
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Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314654 - 08/12/14 05:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
littlebirdblue Offline
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Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 66
For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together. I don't know if that is what people meant as sluggish but something was definitely "ish" and not in a positive way.

If F-130R doesn't have that lack of connection, I'd be really interested.

Starboard, thank you for the feedback on the pedals. It sounds promising.

I'm going to start my lesson again and I get to play on a CX-7. I have a feeling that I'm going to be upgrading around Christmas. smile

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#2314670 - 08/12/14 06:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Starboard Offline
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Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning. It's very easy to fool one's own senses when evaluating these kinds of subtle effects, so do take my remarks with a grain of salt--for all I know it could be a false impression of slow return imparted by the combination of key weight and various other factors. I just think Ivory Feel-G and PHA4-Standard just have a very different feel from any other digital I've yet played. It's not a bad feel, just noticeably different (and different too from the higher-end PHA4-Concert action on the HP series and RD800).

Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES100/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

If it's as long as a two hour drive I can definitely understand not wanting to make that trip, but I'd be confident in basing my opinion of (at least as it concerns Kawai) a key action on a different model with the same spec. I had to order the MP11 blind, but the keys and sound seem just the same as the CA65/CA95/CS10 that I played in person. It can definitely inform your opinion, anyway, so if it's a feasible trip I think you would find value in it. The more first-hand experience you have, the better the choice you can make for yourself.

Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!


Edited by Starboard (08/12/14 11:26 PM)
Edit Reason: model number correction

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#2314702 - 08/12/14 08:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: littlebirdblue]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: littlebirdblue
For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together.


Woah...that's sounds like a scene from a scary movie. eek

In all seriousness...I think that's a problem with a lot of acoustic pianos I've played. grin
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314709 - 08/12/14 08:56 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Starboard
When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning.

Wow I'm glad I asked. I was thinking that you perhaps meant that there was a delay between moment you hit the key and when the sound is produced.

Originally Posted By: Starboard
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

I appreciate your elaborating on this. While my own impressions will be shaped by the collective impressions of the pianos I've played, I'm glad you mentioned some of the Yamahas and Casios I've also tried out.

Originally Posted By: Starboard
Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!

Ha ha...I'm curious about what I'll be thinking about it too!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/12/14 08:57 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2314734 - 08/12/14 10:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
pwl Offline
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Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 202
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: Starboard
I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

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#2314743 - 08/12/14 11:17 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9320
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good catch pwl.

The ES100 and ES6 (predecessor to the ES7) both utilise the same AHA-IV F keyboard action).

Cheers,
James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2314749 - 08/12/14 11:28 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: pwl]
Starboard Offline
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Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: pwl
Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

Very right you are, and indeed, I did mean ES100 and not ES7. So many models to keep track of! Thanks for the correction--I've edited the post to clarify.

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#2314951 - 08/13/14 10:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
On YouTube, I asked Rudi, who did this great review of the F130R, the following question:

Quote:
What is your opinion about the action? For the past year or so, I've been playing a Yamaha P-155 and think the action is a bit heavy. I am considering getting this Roland and I'd like your impressions of the action, especially if you've played the p155 before. Also, I'd like to know what you think of the Roland's old Ivory Feel-G vs. the new PHA4-Standard that's in the F130R.

His response was in line with my hopes and expectations:

Quote:
The action is certainly improved over the ivory feel G action, it has a more direct and slightly weightier feel without being too heavy.

I agree on the P155 action being heavy, obviously it's a matter of personal opinion, I must say though that just because an action is "heavier" doesn't mean it plays better.

Just because people are looking for "fully weighted actions" doesn't mean that they need to find the heaviest action out there!

It's all about what you can achieve with it.

All in all the F130 is great piece of gear. I get to play with some serious toys at work so pretty spoilt , but I still really enjoy the F130 :-)

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Rudi


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/13/14 02:11 PM)
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Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2315175 - 08/13/14 09:36 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
I know this this discussion is on the Roland F-130R, but I couldn't resist this. Here's can be done with F-120, the F-130R's predecessor...took me by surprise:



Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/15/14 05:05 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316013 - 08/15/14 05:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
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Loc: Los Angeles
Here's a review of the F-130 you likely have not seen until now because it was just uploaded today, 8/15/2014.



It's in German, but here's Google Translation of the page this video originally appears on.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316047 - 08/15/14 06:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
lolatu Offline
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 480
Loc: UK
Thanks for the review, Starboard! The only hands-on opinion so far (bar Roland employees).

I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

Originally Posted By: Starboard
I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it.

Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

I don't suppose anyone has diagrams or photos of the F130R action, and similar for the Ivory-Feel G? I can't find any for either action online. It would be good to see what's supposed to have changed.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2316422 - 08/17/14 12:31 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

But keep in mind what Starboard later said in reply to my further probing it the new action that is the F-130R:
Quote:
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

At this point, because the F-130r is not widely avaialble for people to test -- so we're desperately clinging on all that's being said.

But I've pretty much reach every review and every opinion out there. I've watched and listened to every video of someone playing it. Considering all top digital keyboards under $2000, I've come to the conclusion that this is the best successor to my Yamaha P-155.

I have decided to purchase it, and I'm expecting to pick it up early this coming week. Sam Ash offers to take it back with 30 days, if I don't like, so I'm covered.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316424 - 08/17/14 12:41 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

I think there are exceptions to that:
this Polish site offers a very detailed critique with both positives and negatives.

As well, they've got individual sound samples of: Damper Resonance, String Resonance, Accompaniment tracks, and 3d Ambiance.

As well I think Tim at AZ is pretty much forthright about his likes and dislikes.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2316572 - 08/17/14 01:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Phlox Offline
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Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 121
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay

Hi Jay, thanks for your answer !!
Will this work also in the other direction ?? So if I want to use the sound of a roland, played from another keyboard ??
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#2318144 - 08/21/14 01:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Phlox]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-130R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/27/14 12:53 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2318189 - 08/21/14 03:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
peterws Online   content
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Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3697
Loc: Northern England.
When you get it, bear in mind we need to know about the key actions since there is a dearth of info on that. So you have my permission to delve in there and reveal all to the camera whilst possibly scratching that beautiful red finish thereby invalidating the guarantee. . .:)

Have fun. I,m sure you'll enjoy it!


Edited by peterws (08/21/14 03:20 PM)
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#2318589 - 08/22/14 01:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Yes, the action is one of the issues I've been most obsessed about, given that the action for my Yamaha p155 has been one of my biggest complaints.

So yes, I give as in-depth a report about it as I can -- once I get it.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320453 - 08/27/14 01:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
tiga Offline
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Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 1
Originally Posted By: Sushi Hammer
Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-103R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.
just to clarifiy.... did you buy F-103R or F-130R ?

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#2320667 - 08/27/14 01:06 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: tiga]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
F-130R. Typo corrected.

Update: A couple days ago I was informed that tracking said it would arrive yesterday 8/26 to my local Sam Ash.

Breathlessly awaiting confirmation.

While product weight is listed as 76 lbs, delivery rate is close to 100 lbs. Thus, slow freight via Roadway.

Order was placed August 11. Unbelievable. The one thing that it has over over purchasing from Amazon (free shipping for Prime Members) is that I can return it to Sam Ash with 30 days for full refund. I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of shipping it back, as unlikely that would be.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (08/27/14 01:08 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320674 - 08/27/14 01:18 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
petes1 Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 137
The F130R looks to be similar to my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and an attached stand. I have recently obtained my RD800 and absolutely adore it. Congrats on your purchase and please let us know what you think of your keyboard after you put it through its paces!

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#2320690 - 08/27/14 01:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: petes1]
lolatu Offline
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 480
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: petes1
The F130R looks to be similar to my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and an attached stand. I have recently obtained my RD800 and absolutely adore it. Congrats on your purchase and please let us know what you think of your keyboard after you put it through its paces!

It has an inferior keyboard action to the RD800 and only a tiny fraction of the features. It's made by Roland and has a SuperNatural piano sound, but that's where the similarities end. It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.
_________________________
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#2320707 - 08/27/14 02:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Loc: Los Angeles
Congrats on yours too!
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Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2320734 - 08/27/14 04:11 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
UpNorth Offline
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Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: lolatu
It has an inferior keyboard action to the RD800 and only a tiny fraction of the features. It's made by Roland and has a SuperNatural piano sound, but that's where the similarities end. It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.


This is very useful info - thanks for pointing this out.

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#2320782 - 08/27/14 06:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
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Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: lolatu

It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3.


I take issue with that. The PHA-4 Standard is a new action. As is the PHA-4 Premium and Concert. We are not looking to confuse anyone.

There is a good action that goes in our newer budget and compact instruments called PHA-4 Standard. Our Mid Range instruments get the better PHA-4 Premium action and the Top of the line get the best PHA-4 Concert action. Each action brought a significant, and in my opinion positive, change from its predecessor.

The assertion that we are looking to confuse anyone is false.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/27/14 07:06 PM)
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I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2320879 - 08/27/14 11:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
lolatu Offline
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 480
Loc: UK
Jay: Roland has a long history of confusing terminology for its key actions. You just have to browse some of the old threads on these forums to see how confusing they are (random example 1, example 2). If it's not intentional... I don't know what to say.

We can argue semantics of what constitutes a "new" action, but we know that in the previous generation PHA3 and Ivory Feel S were the same, except for the 2-piece key construction on the PHA3 allowing for brown wood-effect plastic on the sides. PHA4 Concert and PHA4 Premium derive from those two, with the addition of extra padding and a dedicated processor for key sensing.

I have personally taken apart a first generation PHA keyboard (circa 2002), and compared it to dewster's nekkid pics of the PHA3 action, and it's nearly identical: obviously a few differences like the escapement simulation, but the geometry, measurements, materials, and positions of the components are the same. So there is a basic design which has always been called PHA, PHA2, PHA3, or PHA4.

There is another more lightweight action, included in portable or cheaper instruments, variously known as PHA2-Alpha, and Ivory Feel G in the second and third generations respectively. It has not been received nearly as well as the PHA actions. I have not seen diagrams or photos of it, but it's safe to say that the action has a different design, geometry, and materials.

Are you categorically saying that PHA4 Standard is NOT derived from this latter line, but is a totally new design? Or is it derived from the PHA4 Premium / Concert design, as you marketing materials imply?

Originally Posted By: F130R page on Roland website
The newly developed PHA-4 Standard Keyboard inherits the functions, appearance, and Ivory Feel texture of keyboards found in our flagship instruments ...

Now when someone reads the above and sees an F130R proudly advertised as having "PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel" - whether they have been following Roland digital pianos for a while and think they know what a PHA action is, or whether they just see that the RD800 and the HP50x pianos also have a PHA4 action - they're going to think they're getting an action the same, or very similar to what's in those more expensive models. I cannot believe that this association is not intentional.

Furthermore, there are no published pictures or diagrams showing the differences between the actions. If you are keen to avoid accusations of obfuscation, you might like to provide some. smile
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2320893 - 08/28/14 12:07 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
gg22 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 6
I recently played Roland F-130R and to me it felt very similar to the Feel-G action in Roland F-120 (if not the same).


Edited by gg22 (08/28/14 12:09 AM)

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#2321073 - 08/28/14 11:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
lolatu,

Of course all of these actions have evolved from their predecessors.

But you said: "It's unfortunate that Roland are trying to confuse people by calling it "PHA4 Standard" when it is not really a PHA4 action at all, insofar as the PHA4 "Premium" and "Concert" are evolutions of PHA3."

It's not Ivory Feel G as much as the Premium and Concert actions are not their predecessors either.

PHA-4 standard is a new action. It feels markedly different than Ivory Feel G, and there's nothing wrong with consistently evolving our piano action at all levels, to feel better than the actions that preceded it.

If no company made progress and didn't ever try new things, we'd all still be playing on sprung actions with PCM synthesized piano tones.

I regret that you feel there's some sort of obfuscation going on. That is not the intent of us, or any other manufacturer. I can assure you.

We invest countless hours and dollars trying to make the best piano action we can to make the playing experience as good as it can be at any price point.

A crying shame that you think there's some conspiracy theory going on here. We're all just trying to make a great piano. That's it.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/28/14 11:15 AM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321090 - 08/28/14 11:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
fizikisto Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 549
Loc: Hernando, MS
Jay
This is not intended as a criticism, but rather a general question. Why have so many different actions on the roland line in the first place? Ivory Feel G, and S, and PHA4 standard, and PHA4concert, and PHA4premium. That's a lot of actions, and it's not really clear to me what the differences are. Is there anything on roland's website that explains the differences? If not, maybe that would be a worthwhile suggestion to pass on to the web designers.

Or even better, in the future, roland might try to standardize around fewer types of action. One thing that I like about Casio is that they have a standardized keyboard across their lines. Whatever privia you get, you're getting the best action that casio makes.

Why doesn't roland do something similar? Standardizing on 1 or 2 (maybe to balance best feel vs. weight/portability) actions would make it much easier for consumers. I have to think in the long run it would be cost beneficial to Roland too as you would presumably benefit from economies of scale.

Just a thought.

Still loving my RD800 btw. smile
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2321110 - 08/28/14 12:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: fizikisto]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Great question.

There are a TON of factors that dictate the actions used. More than most people could ever understand. Some of the nuances of design and supply chain management are even lost on me, and I've been deeply invested in this stuff for more than a decade with Roland Canada. But I would agree that we currently have a large variation of piano actions, which can confuse some end users.
I just take issue with the assertion that we're purposely trying to confuse, or obfuscate what we are doing.

We have had many discussions about how to A) simplify the offering, and B) explain the differences between each so it's clearer to the end user. It's just not simple to do A. B is something that I've long thought about doing, it's a function of time and priority.

It's a constantly evolving thing, and we are doing our utmost to make it simpler for us too. My hope is that we can eventually have a Good, Better and Best option, but as long as there's used instruments and leftover floor stock of some older actions, we'll never be able to keep up with all the variations out there.

Glad you're loving your RD800, just took one home a little while ago and am playing piano more than ever these days. That's a good thing.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (08/28/14 05:55 PM)
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321239 - 08/28/14 06:48 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 480
Loc: UK
@fizikisto It's not complicated at all, despite what Jay is making out.

Roland make only TWO types of 88-key digital piano keyboards (not including unweighted synth actions), and have done for at least a decade.

1) PHAx.
Alias: Ivory-Feel S
Description: Heavier, more expensive, highly regarded, appears in the premium pianos
Models: HP-50x, RD-800, DP90, FP80, V-Piano etc.

2) Lightweight action.
Alias: PHA2-Alpha, Ivory-Feel G, PHA4 Standard
Description: Lighter, cheaper, not highly regarded, appears in the cheaper and more portable pianos
Models: RP301, RD-300NX, F120, FP50, FA-08 etc.

Think of it like a line of cars. BMW produces the 7-Series (a full-size, luxury line) and the 3-Series (a compact, cheaper line). There have been 5 or 6 generations of each; each generation is slightly different, and improves on the last. In some sense it is "new", but in terms of components and design it's largely the same as, and hence can be said to derive from, the previous version. They come with options like a sports trim kit - which is like the difference between PHA4 Premium and Concert.

What Roland have done is to take their newest 3-Series and badged it as a 7-Series. This is not meant to confuse, apparently. And apparently Roland's collective wisdom cannot figure out how make it not-confusing.

So let me help them out. Give the lightweight line a new acronym, say LWA. Suffix it with the generation number, and the trim level, as they do for the PHA line. Stop coming up with goofy names where no-one knows what they are, like "Ivory Feel G". Problem solved.

BTW I very much appreciate and like the Roland keyboard actions (well the PHA ones at least), so thumbs up to the engineers. Thumbs down to the marketing team.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2321244 - 08/28/14 07:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Such hostility.

PHA stands for Progressive Hammer Action. This is the 4th Generation of PHA which has three variants. Standard, Premium and Concert. That's not tough to grasp. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and I am not sure why.

This is why manufacturers reps love and dread this forum all at the same time.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321265 - 08/28/14 08:05 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
gbitw Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 17
@Laerai - Did you ever get and demo the F130R

@Jay - how portable is the F130R? Can the keyboard be removed from the cabinet for travel?

@all - How does the ES7 compare to the F130R? Does the ES7 features justify the extra cost?

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#2321340 - 08/28/14 11:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Starboard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/14
Posts: 44
I don't think lolatu is being at all hostile in his posts; I appreciate his desire to cut to the specific and the relevant technicality of a subject (his Grand Feel key clinic thread is one of this forum's most fascinating and valuable to anyone interested in how these instruments actually work (***)--it gave me both anxiety and confidence when I was waiting for my MP11 to arrive), and I think his posts to this thread are quite in line with that perspective and will be valued by anyone interested in the F-130R or Roland's actions more generally. I'll say that I personally had a heck of a time understanding the tiering of Roland's actions when I first began looking into DPs several months ago: Ivory Feel-G, Ivory Feel-S, PHA3, and then the three PHA4 variations on top of them all. If you're coming into the market mostly blind, as I was, it's going to be a lot to take in (an RP301 with Ivory Feel-G was the very first model I tried back in May as part of my own DP purchasing decision journey). Without this forum, and without reading some of the previous discussions on this very subject, I don't think I'd ever have fully understood where each of these actions fit into the greater context of Roland's offerings--and an understanding of this greater context is necessarily important for any customer looking to get the best value for their money.

And Jay, I appreciate your presence on this forum, too! I hope you aren't seeing hostility where it isn't intended.

*** Extra shoutout along these lines to dewster's invaluable DPBSD and DPs Exposed threads.

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#2321345 - 08/28/14 11:56 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: gbitw]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: gbitw
@Laerai - Did you ever get and demo the F130R

@Jay - how portable is the F130R? Can the keyboard be removed from the cabinet for travel?

@all - How does the ES7 compare to the F130R? Does the ES7 features justify the extra cost?


I dont recommend the F-130R as a portable option. Taking it apart is not the easiest thing on earth. You'd be better served at a similar price by the FP-50. It has similar capabilities. It has the one generation old Ivory Feel G compact action. Not the newer PHA-4 Standard that the F-130R has. But it's one of our most popular pianos and has been for a long time.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2321353 - 08/29/14 12:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Starboard
I don't think lolatu is being at all hostile in his posts; I appreciate his desire to cut to the specific and the relevant technicality of a subject (his Grand Feel key clinic thread is one of this forum's most fascinating and valuable to anyone interested in how these instruments actually work (***)--it gave me both anxiety and confidence when I was waiting for my MP11 to arrive), and I think his posts to this thread are quite in line with that perspective and will be valued by anyone interested in the F-130R or Roland's actions more generally. I'll say that I personally had a heck of a time understanding the tiering of Roland's actions when I first began looking into DPs several months ago: Ivory Feel-G, Ivory Feel-S, PHA3, and then the three PHA4 variations on top of them all. If you're coming into the market mostly blind, as I was, it's going to be a lot to take in (an RP301 with Ivory Feel-G was the very first model I tried back in May as part of my own DP purchasing decision journey). Without this forum, and without reading some of the previous discussions on this very subject, I don't think I'd ever have fully understood where each of these actions fit into the greater context of Roland's offerings--and an understanding of this greater context is necessarily important for any customer looking to get the best value for their money.

And Jay, I appreciate your presence on this forum, too! I hope you aren't seeing hostility where it isn't intended.

*** Extra shoutout along these lines to dewster's invaluable DPBSD and DPs Exposed threads.


The thing that people forget is, we can't make two versions of an instrument. You can't just change out the Ivory Feel G in the FP-50 for the newer PHA-4 Standard. That change would definitely be reserved for an eventual new model.

The factory only has so much bandwidth for creating new instruments. So at this years NAMM show, we released a bunch of new instruments with the PHA-4 variants. There's always development going on, but two hardware versions of one model wouldn't ever happen.

So as models get replaced over time, the newer actions go into the newer models. NAMM was the introduction of the PHA-4 series of actions, with additional instruments with variants of that action making their way to market since then. So you can bet that moving forward, PHA-4 and its variants will find their way into more and more new models as they're released.

It's a delicate balancing act that someone outside of the design and manufacturing teams could never understand. There's only so much that I can say publicly. But I still believe that accusing Roland of deliberate obfuscation and attempts to confuse the public is hostile. Which is why I took affront.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2323245 - 09/02/14 04:52 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi:

My Roland F-130R finally arrived this past Friday. I will write a detailed review of it in the next few days.

But I just wanted to chime in on this recent discussion about whether consumers are confused by the naming convention of the Roland's different piano actions.

I state this from the context of being a consumer, and also being a marketing guy for the past 24 years, as well as launching a successful website.

As a consumer, I was not confused.

That's because in the naming convention of PHA-4 Standard the PHA-4 Premium, the words "Standard" and "Premium" have a very powerful effect. One is perceived as significantly better than the other both emotionally and intellectually.

The message to me personally is "Toyata vs Lexus" from an emotional, non-analytical stand point.

In terms of marketing, I think you probably one to use the thematic core, just like Apple uses "i" in front of Pod, Pad, Cloud in front of very different devices.

Otherwise, the consumer is confused. If Roland named used entirely different naming conventions, instead of PHA-4 Standard and PHA-4 Premium, then that would be confusing because there were be no indication of "good," "better" or "best" in the naming itself.

Do I find PHA-4 Standard and PHA-4 Premium misleading? To it boils down to what happens when sit in front of two pianos one with PHA-4 Standard and the other PHA-4 Premium. Their design could be similar or dramatically different when you tear it apart.

However, if I perceive that both are good, but one is better and more refined than the other, then I don't see where the consumer is being mislead.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/02/14 05:56 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2323734 - 09/03/14 03:38 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
That's because in the naming convention of PHA-4 Standard the PHA-4 Premium, the words "Standard" and "Premium" have a very powerful effect. One is perceived as significantly better than the other both emotionally and intellectually.

The message to me personally is "Toyata vs Lexus" from an emotional, non-analytical stand point.


Or, given that Roland is considered to be a premium brand, we can call it Lexus ES vs. Lexus LX.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328430 - 09/17/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Scotland
Sushi,
Im a complete beginner and have been lurking and reading this thread for a while and took the plunge to buy a F130. In the showroom my partner said she thought the Roland a bit to synthetic for her ( she has a "real piano" :>) ) but on the basis of the many reviews, youtube demos and the feel of the keyboard as well as what I thought in the showroom to be a nice Grand sound I went ahead. Having got it home and started playing I find the "splendid" grand sound not so good especially on head phones. At either end of the keyboard each note sounds pretty realistic with a relatively fast decay when the key is held down. However, around middle C the notes sound quite digital and the decay seems extended and "buzzy". It just doesn't sound right. I've spoken to the showroom about this and in all fairness they have offered to swap the keyboard if Im not happy with it. I cannot complain about their service in anyway and their Roland specialist has offered to test another F130 and let me know what he thinks - I'm also going to go in do this but I would appreciate your opinion now that you have an F130. One other thought is on playing some of the demo tunes the sound is much brighter and crisper than I can achieve through the keyboard. I'm only just starting out with the piano so cannot play much at this stage but I do find the Grand setting bordering on unpleasant and synthetic around mid range. Yet - Roland happily sell this keyboard on the basis of the quality of the Grand Piano sound. Hence, my puzzlement.

Is this a characteristic of Roland or am I expecting too much and have fallen foul of having not tested enough keyboards before buying? Is it possible that this keyboard is faulty even? I have tried other piano settings and the "rock keyboard" sounds more like a real piano tone than the Grand setting which makes me wonder about this.


Edited by macbrin (09/17/14 03:23 PM)

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#2328478 - 09/17/14 05:38 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
macbrin,

It sounds like you may like the Bright grand tone more for your taste. That's the third piano sound on the F-130R.

Piano tones are very subjective, and generally we find most people do like our main Grand Piano tone. I regret you don't enjoy it.

Please give the Bright Grand tone a try before you give up on the F-130R. We do include three main Supernatural pianos for different piano tastes.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328521 - 09/17/14 08:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
gg22 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: macbrin
but on the One other thought is on playing some of the demo tunes the sound is much brighter and crisper than I can achieve through the keyboard. I'm only just starting out with the piano so cannot play much at this stage but I do find the Grand setting bordering on unpleasant and synthetic around mid range.


Try to change velocity response to "light".

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#2328647 - 09/18/14 07:08 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Scotland
Jay, QQ22, thanks for your responses.

I have played with the response velocity setting and it doesnt make too much of a difference to what I hear. (Perhaps my technique needs to be vastly improved??) I settled for the L1 setting last night. I will listen to the Bright Grand when I get back home tonight. I realise that different people will have their own opinions of the sound quality but I am surprised at how synthetic the first grand tone sounds mid range compared to the other extremes of the keyboad.

As I said earlier it just doesnt sound right and its this that i worry that Roland may either have wrong here OR as I said in my intial post there is ( being careful - possibly) a fault with this unit. Its a lovely keyboard so I do not want give up on it just yet. Im still waiting from feedback from the shop and will telephone them later today and arrange to go in and listen to another F130 before coming to any conclusions. I will post back once I have had a chance to do this.

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#2328686 - 09/18/14 09:27 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I went to a store and played the F-130R today, which I was really excited about. I'd love to buy this IF I can get the settings to fit my preferred sound.

There are a few things I like about it. I love the cabinet style, and I really love the keys.

Unfortunately, I had the same experience as the above poster. The upper end sounded nicest, then the bass sounded pretty good, but the middle range of the keyboard felt quite muffled. I assumed it was to do with the speakers, but I hope I'm wrong. I played some brighter piano tones, but I don't think it was 3. I think it was 8, but it's not a number I'm likely to remember.

I have a few weeks until I have enough to buy it, so if you can help me get a better sound out of it, that'd be great. Otherwise I'll have to turn away from it because that mid-range isn't doing it for me.

I have a feeling it's the brightness (or lack thereof) of the mid-range that's putting me off most. How can I change the settings to make the tone brighter? What other settings can I change to get the sound I like (and how)? Like someone mentioned above, how can I change the "velocity response" if that might help?
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

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#2328701 - 09/18/14 10:25 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi Macbrin, Maechre and Friends:

I've had my F-130R for roughly three weeks so and have admittedly "disappeared" from sight because I've been enjoying it so much. But I was intending to come back and write my review -- so you'll see when you scroll down a bit.

Quote:
Having got it home and started playing I find the "splendid" grand sound not so good especially on head phones. At either end of the keyboard each note sounds pretty realistic with a relatively fast decay when the key is held down. However, around middle C the notes sound quite digital and the decay seems extended and "buzzy". It just doesn't sound right.

Regarding your impressions of the sound, you'll also find a wide variance of brightness between the finest grand pianos in the world. In terms of uprights, for example based on my experience, Kawais are brighter than Yamahas.

Plus, as Jay Roland stated, on the F-130R you have your choice of different piano sounds. I actually prefer #1 which is a grand piano sound.

Anyway my review is below. I am a top 500 Amazon reviewer and I also posted a similar review there too, although I changed a few things here for the piano enthusiast crowd here.

My Review of the Roland F-130R

I am very happy with the Roland F-130R I recently acquired to replace my Yamaha P-155.

It's not perfect, but having tried many in the $1500 and under-$2000 price range, I am confident I made the right decision. Here are the highlights where I've rated each feature from A to F (yes, like a report card):

A+ | The keyboard action. I find that the PHA-4 Standard keyboard action is just the antidote for the increasing frustration I had had with my Yamaha P-155's. The Roland is not too heavy and not too light. I know that we can split hairs on a number of issues and there are much more expensive keyboards out there that are more refined, but I really can't tell the difference between this and an acoustic action.
A- | Piano sound accuracy. Every note I play sounds natural. When you play multiple notes, you hear the resonance between the strings. Of course, it's all digital. But it sounds very real to me.
B- | Speaker system. The very first impression I had was, "Great piano sounds coming from two speakers." Ideally, I should not notice that the sound are coming from speakers. This sort of diluted the organic sound from Roland's piano simulations. I believe Jay Roland has alluded this before in that the Roland piano sound has the same genetics as what you see across different models, the method of delivering that sound is the main variable if you, say, compare the F-130R to the V-Piano. POSSIBLY, this has given the impressions that Maechre and Macbrin alluded to. But they should also try the other piano sounds that are included as well.
A | Speaker loudness. When you crank it up -- your neighbors will hear it -- with no distortion.
C + | Pedal Travel. Even though Roland has continuously variable dampening, the short pedal travel makes it feel like an off-switch.
A+ | Cabinet. I was delightedly surprised that this came in an all wood, black cabinet. Just an elegant piece of furniture that make a nice addition to the living room. Unlike the keyboard stands that are typically used for digital keyboards, it's solid with no wobble even when you boogie woogie the keys hard.
A+ | The Lid. It has a lid that covers all the keys and button controls -- and protects it from dust.
C | Music Holder. Unfortunately, the lid also doubles as the music holder. There is no way to keep anything on it with the lid closed. This is an inconvenience if you like to leave your music (or my case, iPad) on the holder.
A++ | Headphone Ambiance. It's a good thing that most of my use of this keyboard is via the headphones. It's sound is incredible. Through special sound processing, they sound the way it would sound without headphones on. In fact, when I play late at night, it sounds so real that I have to take the headphones off to make sure they're not blaring through the speakers and waking everybody up!
B | Volume BUTTONS! For some reason, Roland uses a down button and an up button to control the volume. Nothing compares to have a knob. You do get use to it after awhile, but I see no reason that buttons should ever be used to control volume on a musical instrument.
A | Fun stuff. Like many keyboards, the Roland has different piano sounds, rhythms, canned music as well as musical instruments to play around with.
A+ | iPad integration. I love this!!! You can access most of the Roland's features through a free iPad app. It make jumping around to features a lot faster and easier.
A+ | Plays MIDI files. I put my favorite MIDIs on a flash drive, plug it in the Roland, turn it and it plays them.

The Roland F-130R is my 5th digital piano. While my review may sound a bit critical, it's just that after gone through this many pianos, I notice more. To put it in perspective, if you put me in front of a lot acoustic pianos, I'll probably have as many critical things to say about them as well.

The bottom line is this -- this really by far, the best digital piano I've owned (so far) and in my opinion, at the top of it's class in the $1500 price range.

I also wanted to mention that I had two other candidates in this price category, before I got the Roland: the Kawai ES100, a little less than $2000 and the Kawai ES7 for $800. I was not able to find a place close by to try them out, so had to eliminate them from consideration, at least this time around.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/18/14 01:03 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328791 - 09/18/14 05:01 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
One other thing I'll add to my review is that the Roland F-130R is strong in the areas that are most important to me:

1) Action
2) Piano sound accuracy

In terms of sound output, it's a function of the Roland's simulation plus the sound system. I rated that a B-, but at the end of the day, okay enough it does not dampen my enthusiasm for this great digital piano.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/18/14 05:02 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2328812 - 09/18/14 06:19 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1385
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: macbrin
Sushi,
. . .
Is this a characteristic of Roland or am I expecting too much and have fallen foul of having not tested enough keyboards before buying? Is it possible that this keyboard is faulty even? I have tried other piano settings and the "rock keyboard" sounds more like a real piano tone than the Grand setting which makes me wonder about this.


PMFJI --

1. Almost certainly, it's not a "fault" with that particular sample. If the loudspeakers were buzzing, that would be a "fault". But if you hear the same problems with sustained notes with headphones, that you hear with the speakers:

. . . that's probably the "Supernatural" sound.

2. If the "rock piano" sound seems more natural to you, than the "grand piano" :

. . . maybe your ears need to be re-calibrated? <g>

This is not an insult. We become accustomed to things sounding a certain way, and it becomes "right" to us. "Rock piano" is typically volume-compressed, and (I think) a bit brighter than an acoustic. Roland may have done things differently.

Try playing an acoustic grand piano for a while -- no recordings, they've all been processed! Then go back to the Roland, and see what you think.

3. The high-end Rolands have fairly extensive "sound shaping" menu options. You can adjust hammer hardness, frequency equalization (very powerful capability!), and lots of other things. Check what's available on the F130. At the least, it should have a "Brightness" control in its menu.

. . . That's where I would start.

The factory menu settings aren't sacred. They are somebody's idea (or a committee's idea) of how the piano should sound. Your idea may be different, but it's just as valid.


Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

PS -- as a Casio owner, I have no dog in this fight. A salesman I respect was quite impressed by the F130, and it sounded pretty good when I heard it. I haven't played it.


Edited by Charles Cohen (09/18/14 06:28 PM)

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#2328920 - 09/19/14 05:54 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Scotland
I had a lengthy discussion with the store I bought this from yesterday and Ive agreed to go in and compare the sound of another F130 they have in. The Roland specialist I'm dealing with is great and extremely helpful. Im being offered the option of swapping my keyboard or if I test other Roland models to maybe upgrade to something else if I prefer the sound of another instrument. I couldnt wish for a more helpful and sympathetic store. I sat and practised last night with the response set to L1 and also played with the other piano sounds. The grand sound was more palatable but still nowhere near what i expected especially mid-range. I remain of the opinion that the Roland Grand sound is not as realistic or of the the quality ( on my keyboard ) that Roland say it is. But I remain open minded and cannot disagree with the last poster in that it could still be my ears at fault. I will have also have access to a real piano this weekend so can I will post back once I have had an opportunity to compare keyboards next week. Sushi does give me confidence that this IS a quality keyboard so Im definately not giving up on this and whether it is me being overly fussy( simply wrong ??) or an issue with the keyboard I'm sure I will resolve this soon.

One final thing a question for Jay, The store said that they will also check to see if ther are any software upgrades pending - just in case. Have you any idea if Roland are preparing any firmware updates for the F130?

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to my postings here - I apologise if I have derailed this thread in anyway.

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#2328922 - 09/19/14 06:18 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Shey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 333
Loc: Greater Manchester, England
Sushi, did you get the prices of the Kawai's you mentioned mixed up? The Es100 is a lot less than the Es7 in the UK.
If I could get an Es7 for the equivalent of $800 I would buy it today.
_________________________
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Alfreds Masterworks Classics Level 1-2
Fundamental Keys
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#2328967 - 09/19/14 11:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

I highly doubt that. If it's the same as the F120, then brightness and reverb can be changed by holding down the grand piano button and pressing + or -, or holding down the other instruments button and pressing + or -. Sorry, I can't remember what the buttons are actually called, but I'm sure you get the point.

Some clarification on this would be great. I just saw it in a video while obsessing over the F130, haha.
_________________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2328973 - 09/19/14 11:46 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: macbrin]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: macbrin

One final thing a question for Jay, The store said that they will also check to see if ther are any software upgrades pending - just in case. Have you any idea if Roland are preparing any firmware updates for the F130?

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to my postings here - I apologise if I have derailed this thread in anyway.


Hi macbrin,

I can't see any firmware updates that are available, and don't know of anything coming down the pipe. But Roland Japan surprises even me sometimes, and it could mysteriously show up.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328974 - 09/19/14 11:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Maechre]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Maechre
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Edit -- oops -- there's no "Brightness" (or any other tone control) on the F130. Those functions are reserved for higher-end models. Sorry.
. Charles

I highly doubt that. If it's the same as the F120, then brightness and reverb can be changed by holding down the grand piano button and pressing + or -, or holding down the other instruments button and pressing + or -. Sorry, I can't remember what the buttons are actually called, but I'm sure you get the point.

Some clarification on this would be great. I just saw it in a video while obsessing over the F130, haha.


There's nothing in the owners manual regarding changing the brilliance or brightness.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2328981 - 09/19/14 12:26 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
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Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
That's a shame, as I generally liked the Grand 1 piano tone but found the middle area a bit mallow. I am used to my Casios (PX-730 and PX-150), so I'll play the F130 a few more times in store and see if I become more attuned to the different tone.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2329044 - 09/19/14 04:34 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Shey]
Sushi Hammer Offline
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Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Whoa! Yes, that was a huge error on my part. You are rigtht, I got the price reversed big time.

Quote:
I also wanted to mention that I had two other candidates in this price category, before I got the Roland: the Kawai ES100, a little less than $2000 and the Kawai ES7 for $800. I was not able to find a place close by to try them out, so had to eliminate them from consideration, at least this time around.


Thanks for pointing that out. Took bad I can't edit it.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2329076 - 09/19/14 06:39 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]
Charles Cohen Offline
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Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1385
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
FWIW --

I just spent a little while test-playing an F-130R, through headphones.

Any DP with "realistic" variation of tone, when you hit the keys harder, will start to sound "clangy" at some loudness. This matches the behavior of an acoustic piano -- the harder you play, the brighter the sound.

On the F-130R, that "clangy" quality (some might call it "metallic") starts at a lower key velocity (softer touch) than I'm used to. And it starts at a lower key velocity on the F-130R, than on the Roland RD-80 next to it.

. . . You really have to pound on the RD-80 to make it clang.

And I think (but won't swear) that the RD-80 never gets quite as clangy as the F-130R.

I think the first thing I'd do (if I had an F-130R) is change the "Key touch" setting, from the default "M" (medium) to "H1" or "H2" (heavy).

That would give a gentler sound (for my playing), and might be more appealing. Unfortunately, I didn't have a manual handy, to test that.

There is an underlying question here, that I've never seen addressed:

. . . To sound "natural", how should the increasing "clang", and the
. . . increasing fundamental-frequency amplitude, be related?

That's something the manufacturer has to address when he designs the sound engine. And it's something that the manufacturer could let the owner vary, I think.

. Charles

PS -- as a very subjective judgement: the RD-80 just plain sounds better than the F-130R. They might both have "Supernatural sound engines", but I don't think they're the same. I think the RD-80's keyboard is one generation behind the F-130R, but it's really nice to play. It's also more expensive, of course!<g>

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#2329080 - 09/19/14 06:51 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.
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#2329137 - 09/19/14 10:16 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
If it was the RD800, the action is from the PHA-4 series, the same generation as the key bed from the F-130R. It's called the PHA-4 Concert Action. the F-130R has the entry level PHA-4 Standard action. If Charles is shopping at the retailer I think he is, they don't carry the FP Series, which leads me to believe it is the RD-800.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2329153 - 09/19/14 11:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: voxpops]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1385
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.


Oops -- it was an FP-80. The "home" DP, with speakers, not the "stage piano".

.. .. at Long & McQuade / Terminal Avenue, Vancouver.

. Charles

PS -- I heard a live jazz show recently. Watching and listening to the (digital) pianist, and everyone else, I had two epiphanies:

1. "String resonance" is useless in that situation. The string resonances are softer than the sound of a drummer using brushes. They'll be completely lost in the noise of the ensemble, even during solos.

2. I would _really want_ a front-panel-adjustable EQ, and a front-panel-adjustable compressor. If the piano doesn't sound quite right, I'd want to fix it without diving into the menu system!

But that's a different story from the F-130R.


Edited by Charles Cohen (09/20/14 12:01 AM)

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#2329214 - 09/20/14 08:34 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: Oregon
Thanks for clarifying, Charles.

Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
PS -- I heard a live jazz show recently. Watching and listening to the (digital) pianist, and everyone else, I had two epiphanies:

1. "String resonance" is useless in that situation. The string resonances are softer than the sound of a drummer using brushes. They'll be completely lost in the noise of the ensemble, even during solos.


That may be true, and sometimes jazz players prefer a crisper sound, anyway. However, if you're using your DP for recording and studio use as well as on stage, you may well want the full range of resonance available to you - and that was my main beef with the Yamaha CP4/40.

But that's also not the whole picture when it comes to stage use. I had a gig last night and decided to use the PX-5S / Pianoteq combination that I find to be an excellent marriage. I switched between the D4 and the Bluthner for AP, and the damper resonance was very audible to me - it swirled around in a very convincing manner. I can't say for sure how much effect the sympathetic string resonance contributed to the overall sound, but it was a pleasure for me to play those full-bodied pianos, particularly on slower, expressive pieces - and that helped with inspiration. (The only thing that I find lacking in the stage version of Pianoteq is the ability to sharpen up the damper response, as I could use swifter string damping for jazz oriented numbers. Maybe I should try the K2 for that.)

Quote:
2. I would _really want_ a front-panel-adjustable EQ, and a front-panel-adjustable compressor. If the piano doesn't sound quite right, I'd want to fix it without diving into the menu system!

Quite a few stage DPs have front panel EQ, including the CP4, PX-5S and MP7 (providing you hold the EQ button for a moment first). I think that the CP4 has the best system, as using sliders gives you an immediate visual reference of what you've done, and it's very quick to sculpt an EQ curve with them.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
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#2329259 - 09/20/14 11:47 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Charles Cohen]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Charles, thanks for your impressions. When you say RD-80, do you actually mean FP-80 (the one with built-in speakers)? Or do you mean the RD-800 stage piano (with no speakers). I assume it's the former, as the latter is a pretty new model.


Oops -- it was an FP-80. The "home" DP, with speakers, not the "stage piano".

.. .. at Long & McQuade / Terminal Avenue, Vancouver.

. Charles


Ah so not the retailer I was thinking. Ok so the FP-80 has the Generation old Ivory Feel-S Action, still very good.

The one thing I love about the FP-80 is the how immersive the built in Speaker system is. The 2 acoustic projection speakers on each end of the keybed really help to build a fantastic soundscape on their own. Until the RD800, the FP-80 was one of my favourites from our line.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2329935 - 09/22/14 12:11 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Jay, and those with the F-130r,
In this review previously linked, they mentioned under the heading "Voices" that "we can also lighten or darken the piano using the function Brilliance". Are you sure this isn't an option?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...366%26bih%3D643

If it isn't, can you please tell me how I can change the Touch Response or "key lightness" or "velocity response" so I can somewhat play with the settings next time I play the piano, just so I can fine-tune the tone a little more? (It's just this one little thing that's keeping me from making this a purchase: that lacking middle tone.)

I'll be taking headphones with me next time, but it won't be primarily used with headphones (if ever) so I'd like it to sound good on its own. I'd consider getting some plug-in speakers. If I got these ones second-hand ( http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-2300-TH...=Logitech+Z2300 ), would they sound okay sitting under the piano? Maybe I'm going overboard with those.


Edited by Maechre (09/22/14 12:13 PM)
_________________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330028 - 09/22/14 05:02 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Found it!!!

On Page 2 of the Manual in the "Selecting Sounds" section at the top of the page.

Hold down the [OTHER] Button and Press the [+] or [-] to adjust the brilliance.

My bad. Too much going on these days.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2330116 - 09/22/14 09:46 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1385
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
The "Key Touch" adjustment is on p. 12:

To get into "Function Mode":

Quote:

Basic Operation in Function Mode

1. Hold down the [Metronome] button and press the [Split]
button.
Function mode is selected.

2. Use the [-] [+] buttons to select the function that you want
to set, and press the [s] button to display the setting
screen.

3. Use the [-] [+] buttons to adjust the setting.
Press the [s] button to return to the previous screen.

4. Hold down the [Metronome] button and press the [Split]
button to exit Function mode.


And the adjustment for "Key Touch" (F01):
Quote:

F01
Quote:
F (Fixed),
L2 (Super Light),
L1 (Light),
N (Medium),
H1 (Heavy),
H2 (Super Heavy)

Adjusting the Keyboard Sensitivity (Key Touch)

Here’s how to change the way in which the sound responds to your keyboard dynamics. You can adjust the response as appropriate for your playing strength


. Charles

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#2330159 - 09/23/14 03:18 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks, guys! I'm looking forward to playing around with it again this week.
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330442 - 09/23/14 10:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
On Page 2 of the Manual in the "Selecting Sounds" section at the top of the page.

Hold down the [OTHER] Button and Press the [+] or [-] to adjust the brilliance.

Wow! Thanks Jay. I've been living with this the F-130R for nearly a month and I didn't notice that.

One of the things I wanted to add to my review was "lack of ambiance settings," but in addition to "brilliance" settings there's ambiance there too! It was on page 2, right in front of me.

I'm looking forward to playing around with this tonight!


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/23/14 10:42 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2330543 - 09/24/14 08:39 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Hey even the guys who are supposed to be "experts" miss stuff once in awhile.

Right now I blame lack of sleep and Jet Lag as I'm currently in Toronto visiting dealers.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2330553 - 09/24/14 09:15 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
I played with both the brightness and ambiance settings last night. It makes a HUGE (favorable) difference and, in fact, means I may go back and revise some things I said in my review about the sound.

Actually, given that I posts cannot be edited after a certain time has elapsed, I guess I might have to post an Addendum.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/24/14 09:53 AM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2330599 - 09/24/14 11:51 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
No worries, Jay.

Sushi, that's awesome to hear, especially considering how positive your review was! I went to one of the local stores today and they don't stock it, so I have to go into the city to play it again, which I'll be doing tomorrow. Is the ambiance setting reverb? How do you change it? (So I can test it out along with the brilliance setting.)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330841 - 09/25/14 07:26 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
All right, I went in for the second time today, and loved it! I didn't play any other pianos this time. I was too intrigued with the brilliance setting and I felt more in touch with the piano. I played with various levels of brilliance and settled on one I liked. 1 was too mellow and 10 was too bright, and I settled on 7 with the main piano sound and played like that for 30 minutes to an hour.

Due to the brighter tone with this setting, I feel like it cuts through the speakers more (in a good way).

I won't play with headphones much, but I did plug mine in to try and it was a good experience. Clear. I don't think it has that buzzy looping sound that my Casio PX-150 has. (If it does I didn't notice it as much.)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2330929 - 09/25/14 01:57 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 137
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a follow up question for Jay -- I'm now back in the market for a keyboard, not for myself, but now for my sister (big birthday coming up), someone who is looking for a "home" DP. I just love, love, LOVE my RD800, the sound, the action, the power/flexibility, the everything. Are there any Roland home keyboards that utilize the same action and basic engine as the RD800 but with powered speakers. I've been through the Roland site but am confused. I guess what I'm looking for is something like an FP-80 with or without an attached stand, but with the PHA-4 premium or concert action.

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#2330960 - 09/25/14 03:47 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Maechre]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi, I'm glad you were able to adjust the brightness setting at the store.

As for your question:
Quote:
Is the ambiance setting reverb?

Yes and I think it does more than reverb. It just more spacious and alive.

In my original review HERE, I expressed that was overall super happy to be a new owner of the F-130R. But I felt the speakers didn't do it justice.

It felt like I was playing my piano in a closet.

However, the newly discovered Ambiance Setting really address that issue big time, to where I can feel I'm playing in a concert hall or whatever room I wish.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (09/25/14 04:28 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2331344 - 09/26/14 08:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: petes1]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Originally Posted By: petes1
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a follow up question for Jay -- I'm now back in the market for a keyboard, not for myself, but now for my sister (big birthday coming up), someone who is looking for a "home" DP. I just love, love, LOVE my RD800, the sound, the action, the power/flexibility, the everything. Are there any Roland home keyboards that utilize the same action and basic engine as the RD800 but with powered speakers. I've been through the Roland site but am confused. I guess what I'm looking for is something like an FP-80 with or without an attached stand, but with the PHA-4 premium or concert action.


The DP-90Se. It's the beautiful home equivalent to the HP506 and has the same PHA-4 Concert action as the RD800.
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2331389 - 09/26/14 11:42 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
petes1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 137
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
The DP-90Se. It's the beautiful home equivalent to the HP506 and has the same PHA-4 Concert action as the RD800.


I've checked out the specs, and it looks phenomenal in that it has many of the features that I love about my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and a nice but not intrusive cabinet. It may be just what I'm looking for, thanks! Time to talk to the siblings!

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#2332558 - 09/30/14 11:04 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Hi, I purchased F-130R about two weeks ago. No doubt it has rich sound, comparable to Yamaha Clavinovas. But what has been bothering me is while playing, I hear varying 'clanking' or 'thumping' sound inside the panel. Like wooden pegs hitting each other. It really sounds like something loose inside. Definitely, it distracts my focus.

I am attaching a link to a video i took last night. In the video, I turned the volume down to zero for clarity purpose. But even with the volume cranked up to 50, the unpleasant 'knocking' sound could still be heard. You can see that I continuously pressed a couple of keys without hitting the floor or base (3/4 way down and 3/4 way up). I have done the same test on Yamaha CLP 545, Roland HPi-7, Kawai KDP 80 and few others including acoustic pianos. None of them produced 'clanking' sound inside the panel.

I need favor from those who own F-130R to apply the same test and verify whether it is just my unit or it is a common issue. Hope you can give feedback as soon as possible. Thanks.

Click here to see the video..

crazy

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#2332644 - 09/30/14 03:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
Have you had a chance to compare it to a floor unit at the dealer? Have you contacted the retailer who sold it to you?

Have you also contacted your local branch of Roland in your country?


Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2332705 - 09/30/14 06:30 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: Jay Roland
Have you had a chance to compare it to a floor unit at the dealer? Have you contacted the retailer who sold it to you?

Have you also contacted your local branch of Roland in your country?


Jay


I have gone to the retailer. Unfortunately, the floor unit is out for an exhibition and will be back in shop on Thursday.

As for the local Roland branch, yes I did contact them and send video. They feel it is normal but they are sending a technician on Thursday to check.

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#2332910 - 10/01/14 07:05 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Update:

I can hear the 'knocking' sound with headphone on. Volume on headphone was set to 35. Really, really hope it is just my unit..

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#2332930 - 10/01/14 08:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3697
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: shah
Update:

I can hear the 'knocking' sound with headphone on. Volume on headphone was set to 35. Really, really hope it is just my unit..


If the knocking is also in the audio output (headphones) then it`s not defective hardware or mechanical components. If it effects all notes then maybe it`s simulation of piano keyback noise. I have something similar on Pianoteq . . .and you can hear what sounds like key noise on my DP. Bit different to yours though
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2332932 - 10/01/14 08:22 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
macbrin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Scotland
Sha,

I dont experience any problem with my unit. However, are you able to comment on the quality of the Piano grand tone 1 setting? I'm still undecided on what to do and I'm awaiting a visit to the store to compare other units and other Roland Pianos. On my keyboard the Grand 1 tone around middle C sounds very synthetic. At either end of the range its great but overall it's not at all like I've heard in many of the demos I have viewed on line which all sound bright and quite realistic with or without headphones. I'm also noticing that when on speakers there is a considerable degree of hiss that can be heard. This is not diminished with the volume control either. Its still a nice keyboard but the more I use it the more uncomfortable I feel with the quality of the piano sound. Hopefully I can quickly resolve this through my trip back to the store but in the mean I'm eager to find out what other users think of the piano tones on the F130.

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#2332955 - 10/01/14 09:34 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Jay Roland]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
The DP-90Se will then be the prime candidate for my next upgrade!
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2332961 - 10/01/14 09:43 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I hear varying 'clanking' or 'thumping' sound inside the panel. Like wooden pegs hitting each other. It really sounds like something loose inside.


Hi, sorry for the delay in replying to your urgent sounding post. I definitely do not hear such a sound, even with the sound completely off.

The noise is definitely a defect that goes beyond the thumping that is often heard with digital pianos.

In fact, one of the reasons, I replaced my Yamaha p-155 was because of the loud thumping sounds that were heard by members of my household when I played using headphones.

Roland has done a good job with F130-R in that, while thumping can still be heard, I'd say it's about half as loud as my p155 was.


Edited by Sushi Hammer (10/01/14 12:47 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2332995 - 10/01/14 11:55 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Great to hear that it is just my unit. I will inform the technician about this tomorrow.

Peterws, the noise is coming from outside the headphone. It is too loud to be a simulation of piano key back noise. I have tried several acoustic pianos.

Macbrin, at first I prefer piano sound no. 8 (rock piano). But I begin to like the no. 1 (grand) more. I believe you are right when you say it sounds a bit synthetic. At least, that is what I think after watching various demos online, especially when comparing to the recent Clavinovas, which use CFX Grand. But in terms of sound richness, I think F-130R is at par with Clavinovas, if not better. Even though they are in different class, even though they have different speaker wattage.

I think what Roland means by Supernatural is striking a key hard and striking it soft yield different sounds. It reflects the natural characteristic of a string. Try to hit a guitar string with different strength, you will see the difference.

I normally set the volume at 35 for both speaker and headphone. It is just nice. Setting the volume at 100 will be too loud. I do not hear any hiss sound at all. Be it on speaker or headphone. I am using Roland RH-5 headphone by the way. The 3D ambient effect on headphone is really something. The first time I used the headphone, I thought I didn't plug the headphone well. After ensuring the jack was properly plugged, I then thought something was wrong with the connection. I really thought the sound was coming from the speakers until I took off the headphone and heard no sound when I pressed a key.

Sushi, thanks for the feedback.

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#2333381 - 10/02/14 01:32 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I think what Roland means by Supernatural is striking a key hard and striking it soft yield different sounds. It reflects the natural characteristic of a string. Try to hit a guitar string with different strength, you will see the difference.

That was one of the things I was missing with my old Yamaha P155. With Roland, when I hear that metallic clang when hitting key's harder, it does add to the emotional content of what I'm playing.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2333489 - 10/02/14 06:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Phlox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 121
Loc: The Netherlands
@Sushi

Is the 'musicstand' usable on the F-130R ??
I see some pictures on the net of a small ridge with an Ipad on.

But I wonder if it will hold an musicbook.
Since it misses these little 'clamps' to hold the book from folding shut.
_________________________
10.000 clowns on a rainy day

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#2335261 - 10/08/14 06:46 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
I am back to update. I have tested display units. Unfortunately, they have the same 'knocking' sound. Roland technician explained that the way I tested is not how people actually play piano. But I responded that the sound has been bugging me. That being the case, they offer me for an upgrade. What model should I be looking at? Anybody has a recommendation?? Jay?

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#2335312 - 10/08/14 10:10 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Phlox]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
I think the music stand is useable. But certainly don't see the clips...but then I again I haven't looked. I primarily use an iPad up there.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2335313 - 10/08/14 10:13 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: shah]
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Los Angeles
Interesting. I saw you YouTube video and I definitely don't hear a sound that is as loud as it comes across in the video. Of course, it could be that what I consider to be a normal sound, sounds louder on the video because of...well it's a recording.

Another way to for you to test is see if your piano guy has a Yamha p155. Now that, in my opinion is LOUD. Compare it to that.
_________________________
Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)

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#2335324 - 10/08/14 10:56 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Thanks. To be frank, I just took up piano. So, I didn't know that it is normal. But given the chance to upgrade, what would you recommend? I tested Roland DP90s (PHA III Action) and quite satisfied with it but it is too expensive. I don't know whether the cheaper DP90 (Ivory S) will be the same.

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#2335329 - 10/08/14 11:01 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Maechre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 254
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I also didn't hear that particular knocking sound when I played it. It's a really weird sound to be coming out of a DP.

As far as the music stand clips -- I wouldn't expect to see those on a DP. They're not even on most acoustic pianos. No matter what piano I'm playing, I get all my piano books comb bound so they sit flat. (Comb binding seems stronger and easier to turn than spiral. The ones I got spiral bound had some pages fall out and were hard to turn the page.)
_________________________
I love sight-reading! One day I will master it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Acrozius?feature=mhee

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#2335352 - 10/08/14 12:15 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 183
Loc: AZ, USA
I wonder if that knocking sound that Shah hears on the F130R is the same knocking sound I hear on my FP-50 in the notes around B4/C5 (same supernatural grand piano sound). I have been using zero ambiance to reduce it, but it is still there a good part of the time as I play pretty heavily on the keys. I think Shah and I have in common that we are both new at piano playing.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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#2335354 - 10/08/14 12:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 305
Loc: White Rock, BC.
The DP-90 is an amazing instrument. One of my favourites in the line. It shares a similar form factor to the F-130R but has a higher powered speaker box, and a different action.

Depending on the Generation of DP-90 it will have PHA-3 Ivory feel S or PHA-3 Ivory feel. (One piece construction on the Ivory Feel-S and two piece on the Ivory feel)

If it is the newer generation DP-90e series it will use either the PHA-4 Concert (on the DP-90Se) or the PHA-4 Premium (On the DP-90e).

All very good. I like the changes on the PHA-4, in that the feeling of the keys bottoming out is slightly less abrupt, and the overall mechanical noise of the keybed when played silently or under headphones, is much quieter.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2335744 - 10/09/14 11:41 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Tuneless]
shah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 14
Originally Posted By: Tuneless
I wonder if that knocking sound that Shah hears on the F130R is the same knocking sound I hear on my FP-50 in the notes around B4/C5 (same supernatural grand piano sound). I have been using zero ambiance to reduce it, but it is still there a good part of the time as I play pretty heavily on the keys. I think Shah and I have in common that we are both new at piano playing.



Yup, just started my first lesson.

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#2337870 - 10/16/14 12:11 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]
Tuneless Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 183
Loc: AZ, USA
Shah, I wanted to know if it was my particular unit, or the FP-50 in general, so I went back to a store carrying the Rolands, and tried another FP-50, and an F-20, both had the hard knock on the same keys. So, if you are looking at a replacement for the F130R, I would not suggest another Roland unless you can afford and want a much more expensive Roland that has more supernatural pianos than the 3 that came with on FP-50, as all of those pianos have the same problem, but the worst keys move a note or 2 between pianos 1, 2 and 3.

I also notice F2 is too loud and Bb4 is too soft. I already equalized this FP-50 to lower the base, as it was too over powering compared to the mid-section.

So, I think it is time for me to bite the bullet and get me the convertible laptop/tablet I have been looking at and buy one of the versions of Pianoteq. This Roland is starting to get on my nerves.
_________________________
Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano(yet) and couldn't tune a guitar, much less a piano.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.

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