Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Tuning a piano lower than standard pitch

Oleg, I had my Seiler at 438 for a number of years, largely to reduce the very bright sound from the Abel hammers. This year, the hammer hardness got in the way of tuning, so I softened the hammers and brought the pitch back to 440 Hz. Yes it does make a difference, the piano whined a bit when I changed the pitch, but it's not a huge effect.

Del gave the following example:

"An anecdote illustrating this came from a friend (now deceased) who once did a lot of tuning for recording studios in NYC. He was legally blind but that had nothing to do with his tuning ability. He finally got tired of constantly changing pitch on the various pianos he was in charge of (he was rarely paid for changing pitch). As he had a friend who worked for a company making tuning forks he had a set of eight forks made that were stamped A=438 through A=445. When a pianist requested some pitch other than A=440 he would plead blindness and ask them to pick out the right fork and he would use that to set the pitch of the piano. All of these forks were, of course, tuned to A=440. He claimed he never had a complaint."

tricky blind man.

But, just FYI, I could never get away with something like that. Musicians in Vienna, for example, actually know and can hear the difference. And, orchestras all over the world will immediately know the difference (i.e., which is why one needs to know the temperature of the stage WHEN the music is played: usually this means means having to tune higher at a colder temperature so that the piano is at the house standard when the piano is wheeled onstage). The pianists may be indifferent, but the other instrumentalists are not; if the pitch is not where it is supposed to be, then they struggle to maintain pitch throughout their registers.

You will have problems with pitch-level-sensitive instrumentalists like the oboe, if they have a big solo with the piano and the piano is too high/low!!! It doesn't matter the it is a temperature issue, it is always the piano technician's fault. So, one needs to be vigilant and aware of the environment.

And, BTW, pitch level does effect the tuning. Try tuning a piano at 438, record each note location, and then tune again at 445 and record each note location. They will be different. The timbre also changes. With enough attempts, one can find the ideal pitch for that instrument, based on the kind of tuning being applied to the piano. There will be a pitch-level that seems to, overall, work better.

Thanks for the welcome! I may have been slightly defensive and possibly a little rude with my last post. I felt attacked and unwelcome, so I appreciate your kindness and understanding of a newbie like me. Yes, my grandfather and uncle we're both tuners and I am in the process of completing a home study course. I received an older upright that was so flat I wasn't sure I'd ever bring it up to 440. After lots of care and only one broken string, I've been able to bring it up to pitch! It has been a great piano for learning tuning and how to make minor repairs. Glad to be able to carry on the family tradition. I've learned a lot and I'm excited to continue my growth and development as a tuner-tech. Thanks again for the warm welcome!

The main problem of pitch reconstruction is the bridge tilt, raise of downbearing but mostly at the back of the bridge.

Counter measures are necessary as precautions, an this is to be sold as a repair, not maintenance, in my opinion. (above a few Hz anyway)

With rusted strings, you take the bridge with you a lot

I did notice that raising the pitch from 438 to 440 on my Seiler improved the decay time. It doesn't sound so dry.

Yes it is enough to make the string more resilient (that is the abiity to return fast to its original position)
Then the energy transfer to the bridge is better, and the string is reflecting waves more, less energy is lost at impact, lot of good things, particularly as Seilers are scaled with 442 Hz in mind probably (and yours have been tuned at last to 440 for a fair amount of time so the wire "memory" may like to get back to that (I think bends here, mostly)

A little less iH also, helps to brighten the tone.

Isaac, I'll try bringing it to 442 when I change to Vallotti. I think the hammers have been softened enough so that it won't scream at the higher pitch. The piano will probably whine for a while until it settles into the new pitch. I'm trying Vallotti on the harpsichord first, so I can practice laying in the temperament without dealing with the unisons. I'll try it on some of the WTC in remote keys to see how it sounds compared to Bach-Lehmann, and they try it on the Seiler. I'll let you know the results. It will probably be a month or so until I get around to it.

What style of unisons do you recommend when I move to Vallotti? What were the results of your interaction with Michel Legrand on pure tone?