Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Ivory v. Plastic Questions

Questions:

• How do you feel about plastic v. ivory keytops?
• Are there plastic keytops available with a nice texture?
• Are there plastic keytops available in off white?

Why I'm wondering:

My piano's ivories are in pretty good shape. There are a couple of keys that have hairline cracks running from the front edge inward, maybe a half inch long, and one that's cracked similarly but enough that the crack is darker (dirt?).

One key top had come loose when the piano was shipped to me, but I reattached it using instructions I found in an old post, and it seems to be holding fine, but off and on I've been wondering about replacing the three cracked tops.

The key tops are not yellowed, but they do have an off-white, dirty/alabaster sort of look to them. Probably silly, but I kind of like them that way, but I've also assumed it would make matching the tops with new ones difficult. So I've wondered about cleaning them up too.

Well, a few weeks back there were some posts about ivory and governmental concerns about it, bans on shipping, etc, and it got me thinking about whether or not plastic is the way to go. I read the related articles and documents, and searched through old posts here. It seems like the consensus on PW a while back was that plastic is the way to go for both practical and ethical reasons, but, as is the case with older posts, very few of those posters are still posting.

What I'm thinking so far:

I'm going to be candid and say that at this point I think I'm in the "plastic" camp for both kind of reasons:

• Ethical: just look in the hidden section below

• Practical:
  1. Probably easier to clean and maintain. (?)
  2. The proposed regulations will likely ban interstate shipping in the U.S., and we'll certainly be retiring and moving someday, my wife and I have both lived and worked internationally before, and there's a good chance that we will go abroad after our girls graduate from High School, and international shipping is already an issue.

Questions:

Anyway, I'm curious what others think about plastic versus ivory key tops, and what the state of the art for plastic is in terms of look (color) and feel.

I think ivory was always irresponsible, but it is easier to play on when you sweat - still that's not even close to a good enough reason to use it.

An old ivory keyboard is one matter, but I know manufacturers and rebuilders that will give you new ivory if you pay a premium which I think is grossly irresponsible.

I like the acrylics that kluge use - very comfortable, and Yamaha ivorite is wonderful

I think good quality plastic keytops feel good. They are easy to clean, and they are more durable than ivory. The mineral plastics feel very good - they feel more "dry". On any new piano I think - as probably every does - that plastic is the way to go. As an aside, some pipe organs use cow bone (probably plenty of the raw material available thanks to the beef industry) and they feel quite good. They usually seem somewhat grey and perhaps a bit streaked. But they have character and don't look bad, IMHO. I don't know how readily available the product it is (if it is... I've heard story of one organ builder starting the process with a trip to the butcher).

On antique pianos I think the keytops should be preserved if they are in good condition. Ripping off keytops from a 100 year old piano doesn't do anything - IMHO - to help the current problems. Furthermore I don't presume to judge the decisions that were made in 1905, for example.

If the manufacturer or rebuilder is in USA it can't be actual new ivory. They have been able to use pre-ban existing stocks of old ivory. Of course you may not like that, but I think there is a distinction between actual new ivory and old, pre-ban ivory.

I agree

When an elephant dies what is the problem with using the ivory? It is regulation of thr trade that is needed.

I really don't care if it's plastic or ivory. It's the sound, not the feel, that matters.

That being said, the big danger to us is that extremeist activists demand ever more draconian measures as their campaigns succeed in passing laws that don't solve the problem. Now they want a ban on all ivory:

http://www.96elephants.org/

Maybe it would be nice to do some pushback and start a site called 88keys.org...? The senseless destruction of pianos won't stop the senseless destruction of elephants.

I heard some member of the uk royal family saying he would like to destroy everything made of ivory is all the royal palaces. The sort of knee jerk reaction you get from people of limited analytical ability.

Over the years I've found that most players, ranging from beginners to professional levels, prefer plastic over ivory.

Personally, I play equally bad on both surfaces. If there is nothing wrong with the key tops you already have, why change them? The first thing to check is if the top of the keytop is still flat. Ivory warps and will also wear down over years of playing, leaving a bowled area which you can sometimes feel with your fingers.

Have you gone to go to a showroom where you can compare different keytop surfaces? As mentioned in an earlier post, there are excellent options to choose from.


Enjoy.

I have just written an update to my original article about this on Piano Buyer.
http://www.pianobuyer.com/articles/ivory.html

Two bills have just been introduced in the House and the Senate to try to bring some logic to this issue:
http://www.pianobuyer.com/articles/ivory2.html

OP: Depending on what state you live in currently and where your technician lives, you may be able to have the few ivories replaced, but another option is to have your tech repair the existing ivories with a material that is put in like a filler and sanded down. If your tech has the experience with this material available from Pianotek called Acrylikey II, the crack is cleaned out, the material is filled in and after it dries, it is sanded and polished. I good job with this material will be invisible. It is the similar to the material that dentists use to make a tooth and can be mixed to match the color of the original ivory.

The other suggestion that I have is to have the keys recovered in mineral plastic. Blackstone Valley http://www.pianoandorgankeys.com does an incredible job with this material and it looks and feels more like ivory.

Getting back to the ivory issue, as I said in my article, ivory was used because prior to the invention of plastic because it was really the only material available that could be worked and was durable for use on the key tops. It was never a decorative material but a functional one that was much harder than the wood used for the key. Without a hard, smooth material covering the wood of the keys, the wooden surface would have worn down rapidly. As soon as man made materials were available the piano industry quickly abandoned ivory in the 1950's here in the U.S.

I would vote for the complete replacement of your ivory keys because unless the original ivories have been very well maintained and are perfectly flat, the regulation of the key height and dip is much more accurate with plastic that is uniform.

While the official comment period about this with Fish and Wildlife has not yet begun, now is the time to write your congressional representatives about the problems for piano owners with this regulation.

See my link to the update to review the issues at hand.

I agree also very strongly.

Dear friends:

The above responses represent a perfect example of how opinions can differ. It is incomprehensible to me that anyone could prefer the feel of plastic to real ivory keytops. I think that Steinways are perhaps the worst. Having said this, I recently tried a very artistic rebuild of a vintage Steinway (yes, it was at Cunningham's) that had new keytops of the mineral type. They truly are what we've been waiting for and render the old ivory/plastic debate a waste of time and ink. They look and feel just swell.

Good news from Sally Phillips and an excellent explanation of that filler stuff. Even I can understand the process.

I do believe that those that have ivory keytops should, by the Grace of God and the State, be allowed to keep and maintain them, as well as transport them, with the necessary documentation.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

The proper documentation is exactly the problem. Pianos under 100 years old will not be eligible for an antique exemption. Ivory was used here until the 1950's and 60's, in Europe until the 1980's. If you are personally transporting a piano that does not change ownership, in theory you should be able to do that but if the piano gets inspected and there is not enough (and who will decide what is enough) documentation to prove that you did not just buy it, it may be confiscated. Let's say you have a family piano that was purchased years ago and you just inherited it from Aunt Mable. You might have pictures of it from Christmas in 1970. You might have some repair documentation that proved that she owned it. You might be able to get a copy of the will if it specifically designated you are the heir. But maybe you don't have these things. Maybe you got it and have never had it tuned. Your mother just said, "Why don't you take the piano, I'm sure she would have wanted you to have it." The company that made it is out of business and all you have is a Piano Atlas that says it was made between 1913 and 1915. What is realistic? The way this is written it is possible for a Hamburg Steinway from 1935 that was imported properly with CITES documentation to be able to be exempt but a Sohmer made in 1935 to not be exempt.

The message to your congressional representatives needs to be: Leave pianos out of this. Remember, the piano industry is not now using any new ivory. So all this regulation, inspection, documentation, and restriction will not save any elephants because no elephants are being sacrificed for piano keyboards now. They are trying to regulate and stop something that is not now happening in the piano industry.

How about printing up some fake documentation that says that it is fake ivory?

No one should even consider doing anything like that. First of all the fines will be huge. I don't know any professional in the business that would take such a foolish risk. If this does become law, we will all just have to either be able to prove that we own it, or over 100 years old with documentable provenance or we will have to bite the bullet and take the ivory off.

How about going to prison?

To add to Sally's final comment, I don't think anyone anywhere in the world is using illegal ivory to make piano key-tops.

David Warther of Ohio was offering old pre-ban ivory that he cut into key-top blanks. I don't know if he still does. His family business does scrimshaw and they accumulated tusks many years ago.

There has been no evidence to show that piano key-tops contribute to ivory poaching.

I wonder if this idea of restricting used piano sales because of ivory came from someone in the new piano business who saw an opportunity to reduce sales of used pianos.

Ed, I don't think the new piano manufacturers had anything to do with this. I think that the Director's Order was made without consulting stakeholders involved and it was only when the piano industry and other musicians realized the ramifications of the new regulations that the alarm bells rang. Here are the problems this is creating for other musicians.

http://thestrad.com/latest/debate/the-us-ivory-ban-risks-criminalising-hard-working-musicians

I've come over time to prefer plastic keytops to ivory. Kluge keyboards feel very good-- smooth, level, easy on the fingers. They look good, and don't discolor, warp or crack/split. I now find the feel of ivory to be a bit odd, and too often there are dips or irregularities in the surface. The idea of cattle bone is just a bit repulsive, for some reason. I haven't had the chance to try the mineral plastic keytops but look forward to it.

How about I think he was kidding?

As long as they have a top end grand there that would be ok.