Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
76 registered (angga888, Anita Potter, Artur Gajewski, Alan_Dublin, 15 invisible), 1235 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2310696 - 08/03/14 04:46 PM Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90.
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Hi all,

This is my first time posting in this forum. Unfortunately I hail from a remote city in India and doesn't have hands on access to any decent digital pianos.
I am primarily interested in the closest possible realism to an acoustic grand piano ( both sound and feel of the keys etc.) under 1800 dollars, so all the bells & whistles are kind of unimportant.
As far as I can tell from all the reviews and partial discussions over the net, both Casio px850 and Kawai CN24 are highly rated and quite comparable, the former being considerably cheaper. I would really like to dig into an better step by step camparision of the two ( or the nearby models on either side).
I would greatly appreciate anyone making an effort and I thank him/her in advance....

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Your Next Keyboard is at Sweetwater

Click Here


#2310865 - 08/04/14 04:01 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3797
Loc: Northern England.
Kawai for the playing action IMO. But both will do the job.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2310890 - 08/04/14 06:54 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
I have play tested all of the mentioned choices (not the KDP90) and selected the AP-450.

Kawai CN24's action's better, yes. But for the price difference, that little difference in feel wasn't significant to me. Kawai's action is slightly "shallower" and "faster" than Casio's.

As for the sound, Kawai's samples are from Kawai's own world-famous concert grand, and has a very unique sound character, something dark and rich, especially the bass end. Casio's samples, from what I've heard, are from Steinway grand.

Hope this helps

Edit: I wish to add that Casio's keys are somewhat louder when you hit the bottom. Also, the keys are hollow and some "knocking-on-the-keys" can be heard, sometimes. Also, don't play with long finger nails!


Edited by Clumsy (08/04/14 07:06 AM)
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2311085 - 08/04/14 05:25 PM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Thanks.
As you said I could hear the knocking sound of the keys in Casio's own promotional videos in youtube. I must say it is very annoying eek
Secondly I noticed ( again from there promotinal videos) that the bass section is little weak. Also overall I noticed inadequacy of sparkle ! But maybe it can be fixed by tuning up the 'brilliance'. Have you compared these aspects to the Kawai cn24 ?
Also wondering whether this 'string resonance' feature is noticeable in actual playing confused

Top
#2311087 - 08/04/14 05:27 PM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: peterws]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Have you compared ap450 and Kawai cn 24 ?

Top
#2311258 - 08/05/14 12:32 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
Originally Posted By: achowdhurig
Have you compared ap450 and Kawai cn 24 ?


I played them both in the same store. While I'm not a serious player, but my brother, a concert pianist, was there to help me choose, too. And we walked home with the AP-450.

Well, I did not test the various settings in the store as there weren't any manual lying around. I've owned the AP-450 for over a year now and have tested with various settings I can now say the string resonance works and the lifting the lid is not a toy. It really brings out the sounds.

I have a phone-clip of me playing and singing a Thai song for fun on you tube for you to check the sound. Don't expect good playing or singing, though. I was improvising. (And even if there were music sheets, I can't read the notes anyhow.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjhDbI-Gck

If you have some decent speakers than a laptop's, it will sound much better. I plugged my phone into my car's system and the sound was BIG with deeper bass. (And I sounded better, too, hehe.)
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2311270 - 08/05/14 01:37 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9536
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wow, great singing and playing Anirut!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2311274 - 08/05/14 01:46 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Kawai James]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Wow, great singing and playing Anirut!

James
x


Thanks, James.

(That sounds like I should upload some more, eh? HAHAHA.)
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2311305 - 08/05/14 04:32 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3797
Loc: Northern England.
Good job, man! Sounds like a very useful instrument you`re playing.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2311371 - 08/05/14 09:03 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Great singing and playing...though I didn't get the lyrics grin
Since you have played the casio for a year now, I absolutely must know whether there is a clicking noise from the keys confused
Please tell me, its eating me up !
thanks.

Top
#2311381 - 08/05/14 09:32 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Alexander Borro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 67
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: achowdhurig
Great singing and playing...though I didn't get the lyrics grin
Since you have played the casio for a year now, I absolutely must know whether there is a clicking noise from the keys confused
Please tell me, its eating me up !
thanks.


Yes they are quite loud keys, it is not an uncommon complaint, but it never bothered me.

I also had the privy of trying the Kawai CN24 in the shop and on touch alone, it did feel very nice and possibly easier to get on with, but I am a noob, so don't take my word for it smile

Overall the Celviano won me over quite comfortably in terms of features and sound, in particular seeing it was a good 150 cheaper here in the UK, I could not justify that extra cost since I do not feel I was getting something better in the CN24. The CN34 was vey nice, but a good 1.5 times more over the Casio, too much for me at the time.

This recording gives you a good idea, you can here the keys, but also the nice sound, which IMO is quite a good recording representative of how it sounds to me at home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJWe6JW5qk


Edited by Alexander Borro (08/05/14 09:33 AM)

Top
#2311382 - 08/05/14 09:33 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
Thanks for all the appreciation, guys. grin

Originally Posted By: achowdhurig
Great singing and playing...though I didn't get the lyrics grin
Since you have played the casio for a year now, I absolutely must know whether there is a clicking noise from the keys confused
Please tell me, its eating me up !
thanks.


The keys themselves don't click. There are only noises from my fingernails hitting on the keys. You can hear that in the clip when I played the intro. Also in Casio's own promo vid, you can hear the lady-player's fingernails hitting the keys.

Also, to reiterate, if you turn down the volume, or when you plug in the headphone, the noise of the keys hitting the bottom is louder than from the CN24, but not to the extent of being annoying.
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2311394 - 08/05/14 09:54 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Alexander Borro]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Thanks a lot thumb

Are you referring to the sound the keys make when they hit the bottom or the friction sound between the keys...
Thanks.

Top
#2311396 - 08/05/14 09:59 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Thanks a lot thumb

Keys hitting the bottom sound you mentioned will be a 'thub' sound, right! Not the squeaky/friction sound heard on these videos, thats the annoying sound mad
thanks.

Top
#2311414 - 08/05/14 10:35 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
No friction noise from the keys. Everything's nice and smooth (so far).


Edited by Clumsy (08/05/14 10:35 AM)
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2312167 - 08/06/14 11:09 PM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
@achowdhurig

Just FYI. Yesterday I got a chance to try the KDP90. Well, the feel of the keys isn't even close to that of the CN24 or the AP-450. Period. Personally, for me, a no go.


Edited by Clumsy (08/06/14 11:10 PM)
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2312326 - 08/07/14 08:50 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Ben Boule Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 47
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
This key noise is relative... my wife can hear the keys on our CN24 if I am playing on the first floor of the house with headphones on and she is up on the 2nd floor. So even a "quiet" action is still kind of loud. It doesn't bother her unless she is already in a bad mood.

Top
#2312946 - 08/08/14 12:14 PM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
@Clumsy

Thanks. thumb I am planning to buy the CN24 but will try waiting a couple of months for the release of CN25 wink

Top
#2346616 - 11/07/14 02:16 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Hi,

I went with your advise and brought Casio Ap-460 which is basically ap-450 but they are calling the reverb the HAll Simulator. Thanks once again for all the advise ! thumb
I need to ask you about one thing though, I am switching on the piano and setting the volume knob to say mid-volume. Keeping it fixed I palyed the demo piece that came with the product and it sounded amazing in the speaker. But when I am playing the piano at the same volume level the sound output is quite less, is it normal ?
Thanks.

Top
#2346632 - 11/07/14 03:46 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
Congrats on your new AP-460!

And, pictures, please. Would like to see how it looks.

I'm not really sure about the volume issue as I didn't take the care to notice.

Anyhow, here's a bonus tip for you to try:

Two days ago I just fiddled with my AP-450 and, just for kicks, layered the Grand sound with Electric piano sound. I suddenly noticed there was "something" coming out of the mix.

I then adjusted the layer volume balance by pushing all the balance towards the Grand sound and then just one notch back to the Electric piano and suddenly the digital piano sounded more acoustic-like. Adjusted the reverb to 1, brillance -1 and everything's set. The whole range sounds bright but not sharp/piecing. The treble end now has that longer "tingling" decay sound of an acoustic. And you get a bit more sustain, too. Over-all very acoustic-y. I'm a happy dude now.

However, make sure there's a proper distance between the wall. I found that 6-8" would be right for the mid volume (or say 11 - 1 o'clock setting). And this can be pretty loud already.
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

Top
#2346633 - 11/07/14 03:51 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: achowdhurig
Hi,

I went with your advise and brought Casio Ap-460 which is basically ap-450 but they are calling the reverb the HAll Simulator. Thanks once again for all the advise ! thumb
I need to ask you about one thing though, I am switching on the piano and setting the volume knob to say mid-volume. Keeping it fixed I palyed the demo piece that came with the product and it sounded amazing in the speaker. But when I am playing the piano at the same volume level the sound output is quite less, is it normal ?
Thanks.

Every DP I have ever tried or purchased has this. The volume and dynamics of the inbuilt demo pieces plays fantastically, but at the same volume setting it is difficult to achieve the same loudness playing without really pounding the keys, and the dynamics or expression ... well beyond me anyway. Others on here have also reported this.

Top
#2346641 - 11/07/14 04:35 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: Clumsy]
achowdhurig Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 20
Thanks for the tip, I will try and let you know. The ap 460 is completely identical to ap 450 in every way, sorry nothing new frown

I will really appreciate if you can check the issue I mentioned in your Ap 450. If there is something wrong with my DP I have to initiate a replacement procedure which will take a long time in India. shocked

Also, I am a very novice player don't really know how much to expect from this DP.
Thanks

Top
#2346698 - 11/07/14 09:13 AM Re: Comparison of Casio px 850/ap 450/650 with Kawai CN24/kdp90. [Re: achowdhurig]
Alexander Borro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 67
Loc: UK
Hi,

I have the AP-450 and find the same about volume levels with the songs versus playing. don't think there is anything wrong, or at least my suspicion is that just come down to building up strength and also perhaps the song volume library setting as well, by default it is set to max 42, and the song volume settings goes from 0 - 42, you can change this setting with one of the keys, it will be in the manual somewhere, don't know of top of my head which one.

I found the piano really heavy feeling to begin with, but bit by bit I feel getting stronger, I find it somewhat easier now to get some ummmnph out of the sound without feeling I am having to press hard, or forcing to get it to sound louder. At first I feared or wondered whether the action would be too heavy for me, but bit by bit I feel it is less the case, and it's beginning to feel little bit lighter bit by bit.

You can also play with the touch response settings 1 to 3 going from light to heavy that will make quite a bit difference I noticed, but I find the default setting are fine ( which is the 2 setting ).


Edited by Alexander Borro (11/07/14 09:13 AM)

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!

Trade Regrets:
Barry "Bear" Arnaut

(ad) Yamaha
Yamaha
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Music reading apps for iPad that use mic
by Artur Gajewski
11/24/14 03:02 AM
About Roland's PHA4 STANDARD and F-130R
by Yussnan84
11/24/14 12:55 AM
Call me irresponsible....
by harpon
11/23/14 11:17 PM
Yamaha used U1/U3 or new B3?
by blackjack1777
11/23/14 10:41 PM
Keyboard for $500 - and software to help learn?
by Freebird308
11/23/14 09:35 PM
Forum Stats
77024 Members
42 Forums
159308 Topics
2340185 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission