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#2311729 - 08/05/14 10:48 PM my education
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
I am looking for an advice about my music education. I am 49 years old beginner in playing piano. I have been learning only two years. I decided to concentrate my future in performance of music. There is idea in my mind to be a student of piano performance during day a worker at night. I am looking for an international college which can offer my to reach my dream. There should be some course for beginners and after this to continue till Bachelor of Music.

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#2311738 - 08/05/14 11:19 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Hi Mle,

You don't say what country you are in. Could you please write back and let us know where you are? It will help us give better advise.

Cheers!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2311742 - 08/05/14 11:24 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
I am from The Czech Republic, but i would like to go anywhere around the world. Any college, where English is main language is good for me. There is problem in America because student can't work there.

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#2311768 - 08/06/14 12:49 AM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
phantomFive Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1515
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Mlejnek
I am from The Czech Republic, but i would like to go anywhere around the world. Any college, where English is main language is good for me. There is problem in America because student can't work there.

Students can work 19 hours a week in the US, unless that has changed recently.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2311772 - 08/06/14 12:54 AM Re: my education [Re: phantomFive]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Phantom, it's very complicated in the US, in comparison to other countries.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2311794 - 08/06/14 01:57 AM Re: my education [Re: laguna_greg]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
you are right Phantom, you can work only inside campus. Dosn't meter, World is big enough. Any sggestion?

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#2311840 - 08/06/14 06:33 AM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
mc9320 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 39
Loc: London, UK
I'm from the UK and studied a Masters in the US. I worked on campus and there is a limit to how much you can work. Also, the pay was quite poor. If you want to work while you study and English is the main language, have you tried looking at the UK? Being from the Czech Republic, there won't be any work restrictions.

You've said you're a beginner, so you might want to find a teacher for a while and then apply to a music college somewhere. However, some music colleges have beginner courses you could apply to e.g. http://www.ram.ac.uk/beginners-courses
_________________________
Martyn Croston - Jazz Pianist
=> Strategies, Tips And Advice on How To Become A Successful Private Music Teacher

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#2311856 - 08/06/14 07:39 AM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 512
Quite frankly, it is out of the question for a 49 year old beginner to obtain a bachelors of music in piano performance. You are simply too far behind with not enough time on your side. This is even more true if you don't have the income to allow you to devote all of your attention to your studies. Since you are asking about work, I'm going to assume this is not the case. Do you even have the repertoire to get into a performance program?

What is your end goal with this degree? Let's say by some miracle you are a late blooming prodigy and can be brought up to performance degree level playing in the four years it takes you to get your degree. What then? You'll be 53 with no steady job with a degree that has a weak job market. How are you going to feed yourself and provide for your family and save money for retirement, which is only a few years in the future?

Having dreams is great and so is being ambitious and optimistic about them, but you need to think about the reality of the situation before doing anything too foolish.

I suggest that you study music on the side as a hobby. You don't need a performance degree to play great music and have fun!


Edited by boo1234 (08/06/14 07:40 AM)

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#2311914 - 08/06/14 11:45 AM Re: my education [Re: boo1234]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
You are absolutely right. I remember when I rang the door of the English teacher first time. When she opened the door her first question was how old are you. I sad I am 43 and she answered hmm you are too old and it is impossible in this age to start learn English a reach some good level. After five years I already have FCE certificate, IELTS 6.5, Diploma of Hospitality in Australia, and I will have CAE certificate. I donít like to do things only half way, of course I donít need degree, but I would like to play the piano as good as possible. I can do this, but I have to play every day under direction of experienced teacher. If I play only like a hobby it will never be perfect and take it long time.

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#2311915 - 08/06/14 11:47 AM Re: my education [Re: laguna_greg]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
Do you have some idea how I can solve my future.

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#2311919 - 08/06/14 11:59 AM Re: my education [Re: mc9320]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
It looks really good, but unfortunately, there is not any course for piano beginners in the http://www.ram.ac.uk/beginners-courses. Only guitar and strings. Thanks

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#2311935 - 08/06/14 01:03 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1102
Loc: western MA, USA
Two years ago I felt that I was no longer improving on my own and although I was finding plenty of work as a pianist I was in no position to pay for a masters degree. I instead located the best pianist who lived near me and asked very nicely for private lessons. It was an excellent choice. You might be able to do something similar and if you can go anywhere in Europe there are a great many fine artists to choose from.
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Sometimes a bagatelle is just a bagatelle. Beethoven Op. 33
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
Loving Faurť/Barcarolles and Ravel/Tombeau de Couperin
Always a fan of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

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#2311939 - 08/06/14 01:12 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
MALDI_ToF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/14
Posts: 64
Loc: Vancouver
You say you have been learning for two years? What level are you in your piano playing? Did you start with no music knowledge at all, or did you have experience in performing a different instrument? I do know that the School of Music at the university where I work (in a different department), does not take students who are "beginner". If you are familiar with the Royal Conservatory of Music programme, there are 10 levels in piano, followed by the Professional ARCT level (not to mention the music theory). The BMus program here expects you to be at a minimum of Grade 10 and that is for the "lower" General Studies Major. At third year you are expected to be at ARCT level. If you want to be a performance major you need to be at an ARCT level (or equivalent). Of course just being at that level is meaningless; you need to prepare a programme and perform at an audition. I would expect other schools to have similar requirements.

Perhaps learning privately with a good teacher and getting yourself up to an advanced level is the way to go. Put the idea of a BMus on hold for now, at least until you are at an advanced level, and have gained experience in performing.

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#2311940 - 08/06/14 01:25 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18135
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Mlejnek
I am looking for an advice about my music education. I am 49 years old beginner in playing piano. I have been learning only two years. I decided to concentrate my future in performance of music. There is idea in my mind to be a student of piano performance during day a worker at night. I am looking for an international college which can offer my to reach my dream. There should be some course for beginners and after this to continue till Bachelor of Music.


It is not clear to me exactly what your ultimate goal is when you write that you want to "concentrate [your] future in performance of music."

In most cases that I know of, which, admittedly, are not many, if you plan to go for a performance degree, you need a pretty high level of proficiency even before you can get into the programme, many of which require an audition.

However, if you want a Bachelor of Music degree in music history or musicology you might well find a programme which you can pursue without an audition and where, eventually, the performance component which may be required for graduation does not have to be at a professional level. I somewhat doubt, however, being a beginner at age 49, you would be able to qualify to get into a performance degree programme.

As others have suggested, you could study piano with an independent, private teacher to improve your piano playing skills. At that point you could pursue a university programme with a music major without necessarily aiming for a degree in piano performance.

As I understand your ambitions from what I read, it seems to me that you don't have much of a chance for a performance degree. It comes down to a question that you have not yet answered : What do you want to do with music once you get your degree? Is a degree necessary to pursue your ultimate goals?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2311945 - 08/06/14 01:47 PM Re: my education [Re: BruceD]
MALDI_ToF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/14
Posts: 64
Loc: Vancouver
Originally Posted By: BruceD

However, if you want a Bachelor of Music degree in music history or musicology you might well find a programme which you can pursue without an audition and where, eventually, the performance component which may be required for graduation does not have to be at a professional level. I somewhat doubt, however, being a beginner at age 49, you would be able to qualify to get into a performance degree programme.
Regards,


At the university where I work there is a distinction between the degree BruceD described and a performance degree. The one BruceD describes is a Bachelor of Arts with a major in music, and there is no audition needed as there is no performance component to it. Whereas a Bachelor of Music does have a performance component and is intended for those wanting careers in performance or composition, etc. I am sure other universities will have similar distinctions. The Bachelor of Arts has no [insert instrument] lessons, whereas a Bachelor of Music will have students assigned to a professor who will give them private lessons as part of their undergrad programme.

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#2311950 - 08/06/14 02:12 PM Re: my education [Re: hreichgott]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1098
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Two years ago I felt that I was no longer improving on my own and although I was finding plenty of work as a pianist I was in no position to pay for a masters degree. I instead located the best pianist who lived near me and asked very nicely for private lessons. It was an excellent choice. You might be able to do something similar and if you can go anywhere in Europe there are a great many fine artists to choose from.


+1

I would agree that this is the better path, especially in this case. It's probably just as true for someone in their 20s IMO.

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#2312008 - 08/06/14 04:27 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
MLe, I don't think here's any reason why you can't do this. Many people have, even at your advanced age of decrepitude. Yes, you'll have to work like a slave, and for a long time yet without much thought of any reward other than the progress you are making.

Private instruction is essential at your level, as many here have suggested. And some conservatories and schools will have age restrictions, even unwritten ones, especially in Europe. So, find one that doesn't!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2312129 - 08/06/14 09:48 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 512
Originally Posted By: Mlejnek
You are absolutely right. I remember when I rang the door of the English teacher first time. When she opened the door her first question was how old are you. I sad I am 43 and she answered hmm you are too old and it is impossible in this age to start learn English a reach some good level. After five years I already have FCE certificate, IELTS 6.5, Diploma of Hospitality in Australia, and I will have CAE certificate. I donít like to do things only half way, of course I donít need degree, but I would like to play the piano as good as possible. I can do this, but I have to play every day under direction of experienced teacher. If I play only like a hobby it will never be perfect and take it long time.


While I applaud your effort to become proficient in English, learning the piano to the level of a performance degree is a totally different beast. You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be more fair to compare it to something like never having played basketball and expecting to make your university team as a walk on.

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#2312130 - 08/06/14 09:48 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
Many of your advices are very similar. Thank you for that. What is true, I donít need degree for future, I absolutely agree. I have changed a few emails with http://www.icom.edu.my/index.php, but unfortunately they closed Pre-Foundation course for next year. This school in Kuala Lumpur sounds good to me, but my level for Foundation in Music is not equal.
I already have a private teacher, but we work together only once a week. I have to work during day so for playing the piano is only a few hours a day.
My idea is to be full time involved in learning play the piano and have job at night. What is true I can do this without college and take a private teacher anywhere around the world. Its sounds to me good and make sence.

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#2312133 - 08/06/14 09:51 PM Re: my education [Re: boo1234]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
I am sure you are right, sorry about my not equal comparison.

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#2312148 - 08/06/14 10:24 PM Re: my education [Re: boo1234]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: boo1234


While I applaud your effort to become proficient in English, learning the piano to the level of a performance degree is a totally different beast. You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be more fair to compare it to something like never having played basketball and expecting to make your university team as a walk on.


Boo, stick it back up your nose where you found it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Really.

You have no basis on which to be so disparaging. Unless of course, your musical life turned out to be one big failure in every respect. If that's the case, we'd like to hear the story. And perhaps you should ask the rest of us for some help. Because more than a few of us made it into the professional ranks against even greater odds than the OP here, and some of us were at an advanced age when we started.

In point of fact, there's no telling how far a person can go once they set their mind to it.

Can you trouble yourself to give some constructive ideas instead of tearing down, well, everything??


Edited by laguna_greg (08/06/14 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: better parenting requires more scolding, not less
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2312280 - 08/07/14 07:26 AM Re: my education [Re: laguna_greg]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 512
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: boo1234


While I applaud your effort to become proficient in English, learning the piano to the level of a performance degree is a totally different beast. You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be more fair to compare it to something like never having played basketball and expecting to make your university team as a walk on.


Boo, stick it back up your nose where you found it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Really.

You have no basis on which to be so disparaging. Unless of course, your musical life turned out to be one big failure in every respect. If that's the case, we'd like to hear the story. And perhaps you should ask the rest of us for some help. Because more than a few of us made it into the professional ranks against even greater odds than the OP here, and some of us were at an advanced age when we started.

In point of fact, there's no telling how far a person can go once they set their mind to it.

Can you trouble yourself to give some constructive ideas instead of tearing down, well, everything??


You expect OP to be able to go from being a beginner to playing performance major technically difficult pieces in four years all while being 49 and working at night to pay bills? And speaking of bills, what about tuition?

What about the other classes that would be required for the degree? Or sleeping?

You live in a fantasy land and are giving the OP false hope.

I did give advice and sensible advice at that. Get a private teacher and study music as a hobby.

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#2312400 - 08/07/14 11:46 AM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
Thank you to everybody for advices. It was really helpful to discuss my future with professionals. I will try to find some job in Hospitality in England or Ireland. The private teacher will be the best solution. Thanks one more

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#2312420 - 08/07/14 12:16 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
MALDI_ToF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/14
Posts: 64
Loc: Vancouver
I think a private teacher is a good choice. Let them know what you want to accomplish (a music degree), but know that this isn't something that will happen quickly. It may take literally years before you get to a level where entrance in a Bachelor programme is realistic. Set some smaller, more achievable goals for the short term. It will take lots of little steps to get into a BMus programme (and many more to finish it!).

While your goal is achievable, you must set a realistic timeframe (9 years perhaps even more...and this is just to get in a BMus programme) or you will be surely disappointed.

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#2312436 - 08/07/14 12:56 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
mellifluous Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/14
Posts: 10
I know a couple of people who entered pretty decent performance programs within 4 years or less of starting to play their primary instruments, but admittedly the circumstances were different - they had had previous experience playing other instruments and they were in their late teens so didn't have to work full time. It might be possible, but as others say it may not be a reasonable goal to look towards at this time. If you work hard with a good private teacher for a few years, you'll get a better idea of whether entering a piano performance program is feasible or even something that you want. Even without a performance degree, with hard work you might be eventually able work teaching piano/accompanying;etc. part time or maybe even full time. One of the best teachers in our area started teaching very late as a second career, though again she had been a proficient pianist through early adulthood.

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#2312515 - 08/07/14 04:02 PM Re: my education [Re: boo1234]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: boo1234
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: boo1234


While I applaud your effort to become proficient in English, learning the piano to the level of a performance degree is a totally different beast. You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be more fair to compare it to something like never having played basketball and expecting to make your university team as a walk on.


Boo, stick it back up your nose where you found it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Really.

You have no basis on which to be so disparaging. Unless of course, your musical life turned out to be one big failure in every respect. If that's the case, we'd like to hear the story. And perhaps you should ask the rest of us for some help. Because more than a few of us made it into the professional ranks against even greater odds than the OP here, and some of us were at an advanced age when we started.

In point of fact, there's no telling how far a person can go once they set their mind to it.

Can you trouble yourself to give some constructive ideas instead of tearing down, well, everything??


You expect OP to be able to go from being a beginner to playing performance major technically difficult pieces in four years all while being 49 and working at night to pay bills? And speaking of bills, what about tuition?

What about the other classes that would be required for the degree? Or sleeping?

You live in a fantasy land and are giving the OP false hope.

I did give advice and sensible advice at that. Get a private teacher and study music as a hobby.


Boo, you have no idea what is possible for this person. Your ability to foretell the future is nonexistent. However, that doesn't seem to stop you from giving really bad advice, and being a killjoy at the same time. The only reason I can think of that would motivate that kind of negativity is a very resentful jealousy. It's really not very attractive.

Tell me, is this how you talk to every new poster on this forum?

I didn't have my first music lesson of any kind until I was almost 20, and it turned into a very nice and successful career. I'm so glad I didn't listen to the bunch of negative people like you who also could not predict the future.

There's no telling how far anyone can go in Art, if that is what they really want.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

Top
#2312589 - 08/07/14 06:41 PM Re: my education [Re: laguna_greg]
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 512
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: boo1234
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Originally Posted By: boo1234


While I applaud your effort to become proficient in English, learning the piano to the level of a performance degree is a totally different beast. You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be more fair to compare it to something like never having played basketball and expecting to make your university team as a walk on.


Boo, stick it back up your nose where you found it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Really.

You have no basis on which to be so disparaging. Unless of course, your musical life turned out to be one big failure in every respect. If that's the case, we'd like to hear the story. And perhaps you should ask the rest of us for some help. Because more than a few of us made it into the professional ranks against even greater odds than the OP here, and some of us were at an advanced age when we started.

In point of fact, there's no telling how far a person can go once they set their mind to it.

Can you trouble yourself to give some constructive ideas instead of tearing down, well, everything??


You expect OP to be able to go from being a beginner to playing performance major technically difficult pieces in four years all while being 49 and working at night to pay bills? And speaking of bills, what about tuition?

What about the other classes that would be required for the degree? Or sleeping?

You live in a fantasy land and are giving the OP false hope.

I did give advice and sensible advice at that. Get a private teacher and study music as a hobby.


Boo, you have no idea what is possible for this person. Your ability to foretell the future is nonexistent. However, that doesn't seem to stop you from giving really bad advice, and being a killjoy at the same time. The only reason I can think of that would motivate that kind of negativity is a very resentful jealousy. It's really not very attractive.

Tell me, is this how you talk to every new poster on this forum?

I didn't have my first music lesson of any kind until I was almost 20, and it turned into a very nice and successful career. I'm so glad I didn't listen to the bunch of negative people like you who also could not predict the future.

There's no telling how far anyone can go in Art, if that is what they really want.


Is it possible that I will win the lottery? Sure it is, but it's not likely to happen. I'm sorry if you see me as a kill joy. I am far from it and a very optimistic person. However, there is a difference between being optimistic and being blinded by false hope.

To be honest, I believe YOU are the one who is giving bad advice.

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#2312667 - 08/07/14 09:16 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
I am so sorry if my question starts unfriendly atmosfere in this room. Is there anyone from England or Ireland? Which country has a better situation for finding job in Hospitality and ofcourse to find a good private piano teacher?

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#2312670 - 08/07/14 09:25 PM Re: my education [Re: Mlejnek]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1102
Loc: western MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Mlejnek
I am so sorry if my question starts unfriendly atmosfere in this room. Is there anyone from England or Ireland? Which country has a better situation for finding job in Hospitality and ofcourse to find a good private piano teacher?

Given that you have high goals, start at the top. Find out who is playing in concerts in England and Ireland who lives locally (ie isn't out touring all year), see if you can hear a little of their playing on Youtube or on their website, and if you like their playing get in touch. Find out who teaches piano at the finest music colleges/conservatories there and ask if they also teach privately. You may be told no many times, but eventually you will be told yes, and you'll find someone of higher caliber than if you just look in the phone book.
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Sometimes a bagatelle is just a bagatelle. Beethoven Op. 33
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
Loving Faurť/Barcarolles and Ravel/Tombeau de Couperin
Always a fan of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

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#2313678 - 08/10/14 01:21 AM Re: my education [Re: hreichgott]
Mlejnek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 12
Thank you very much, your advices are really helpful. Also your www. are beutiful. I wish you the best.

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