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Hi there,
I have be searching for a DP few months now. I have be mentioned to look at the Kawai VPC1 for its action.
The last few days I read reviews and watched videos in order to familiarize myself with Kawai VPC1, but I still have some questions.

1. For learning I use Piano Marvel which is installed to my laptop (internet access is required at all times) and I connect to my Casio CTK 4200 using USB. For sound I connect the head phone jack of the laptop to the Line- in of the Casio and sound comes out of the keyboard speakers (I use headphone too). How is it possible to do that with VPC1?

2. Is it possible to run Piano Marvel and get sounds from the piano software (Ivory, Pianoteq, Galaxy, Alicia's Keys) at the same time with no issues?

3. Kawai VPC1 supports Ivory, Pianoteq, Galaxy, Alicia's Keys those application I believe have versions and updates / additions etc, does the VPC1 is limited to a certain realise?

Thanks a lot

1. yes, in the same way: connecting the VPC1 to your PC via USB, the sound can be generated by a SW PIano (VSTi or AU) or, alternatively, by a HW module connected to VPC1 MIDI

2. cannot answer for sure, not knowing how Piano Marvel works, but I suppose you should be able to run it together with your SW Piano.

3. VPC1 is a controller and its velocity response curves can be customized so, although it has presets for the last versions of the SW Pianos you mentioned, it can be used with any SW Piano and any release or, in general, with any SW/HW sound generator

One correction, it sounds like the OP has sound coming from the DP, which indicates that Piano Marvel transmits back to the DP via USB. With a VPC1, this will be slightly different since the VPC1 does not have any audio out or any speakers. So the setup is as follows:

USB MIDI cable from the VPC1-->USB on the laptop -->Laptop speakers/speakers plugged into headphone jack on laptop

There are some other arrangements you could do, but slightly more complicated.

As for the software working alongside the VPC1, it all depends on what Piano Marvel has for settings. I would test this out with your current set up. Download the free trial version of Pianoteq and set that up with your current DP. Once this is working, open Piano Marvel and see if there is something in the output settings that allows you to choose Pianoteq directly rather than triggering the on-board sounds from your Casio as it's currently doing. If it works, the sound would come from your laptop and not the keyboard.

If it doesn't work or PM doesn't allow you to choose the output, then you may have to use your current DP for the PM stuff and use the VPC1 for everything else.

To add to the responses from Maxpiano and Morodiene, if you're using your computer's onboard audio, it may be necessary to use the ASIO4All driver in order to get low(er) latency sound from Pianoteq, Ivory, etc.

James
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Larry ...

It is my suggestion that you reconsider the purchase of the VPC1 as your primary instrument.

You can surely see from the above comments that there is a level of uncertainty that comes with the purchase of an instrument which has no internal sound or speakers.

I am sure that the VPC1 is a high quality instrument which, in the hands of an accomplished musician, and after purchasing all the additional software and hardware needed to bring everything up to a high quality performance level, will produce a very high quality experience at the keyboard.

However, you are just beginning this journey. In my opinion, you need a nice quality keyboard with a reasonably nice sound and touch so you can learn to play.

There are a number of options for you and you probably have reviewed each of them. I would suggest picking one and keep things simple.

Sometimes we get caught up in buying fancy equipment with the expectation that the equipment is going to make us sound better. Well, while it may make a small difference ... trust me, what makes you sound better is ... you guessed it ... Practice !

Try out as many keyboards as you can and pick the one you like the best ... and PRACTICE ! That is the path to becoming a better piano player.

If your situation requires you to purchase one without playing it, I would vote for the ES7. I cannot imagine you not being pleased with that machine.

Good Luck

The OP wrote that he connects the laptop audio to his current DP Line-in, so I am not sure if Piano Marvel just analyzes the MIDI data produced by the player or also outputs MIDI data itself. Unfortunately the info on Piano Marvel site are poor, on that side,

@dmd: +1, probably the VPC1 would not be a good choice for that purpose, given teh apparent experience level of the OP, better go for a DP with a higher quality keybed and line-in+onboard speakers (e.g. Kawai ES7... )

It all depends on what's important to the purchaser. The VPC1 is not for everyone, and if using the Piano Marvel doesn't work out with the VPC1, how bad would it be for the OP to use the current DP for PM stuff and the VPC1 for regular practice? That can only be determined by the OP for themselves.

Still, if the OP does what I suggest to at least test out using the PM with software piano sounds, then perhaps they can determine if this would be an issue for the VPC1. Better that than either buy and find out it doesn't work and be disappointed, or not buy it when it would work and miss out on the enjoyment of the VPC1 - which is a superior action to other DPs in that price range, IMO.

Working on a better instrument does help one improve. We've talked about it many times on the Piano Teacher's Forum. Beginners who work on a better instrument want to practice more and improve faster as a result. They have pleasure from playing rather than frustration at the instrument not being able to do the things they are telling it to. I'm not talking about highly subtle things, here, either. So, just saying I'm not a proponent of getting an inferior instrument just because one is a beginner. Nor am I implying that the ES7 would hold them back - I've not played it to know. I do know the VPC1 is pretty darn good.

It may very well be. As far as it goes ... the keys. The bad news is that it has no sound or speakers.

If the OP could get the VPC1 with the sound and speakers of my ES7 I might say "go for it". I say "might" because I happen to like the touch of the keys on the ES7 very much. However, with the OP being a beginner and clearly not knowledgeable about software piano sounds and computer connections and in need of speakers, etc ... I just think it prudent to err on the side of caution here.

Certainly, and it could very well not be the right DP for them. However, if they are made aware of what it would be and they're fine with that, then who are we to argue about that?

I agree.

Hi there friends,
The reason that I want to explore the possibilities with the Kawai VPC1 is because it has wooden action at a price that I can afford. From reading on the net, I came to the conclusion that wooden actions are “better” from plastic actions (more realistic, better expression and dynamics). I may be wrong 
I know that MP11 (€2250) and CA65 (€2155) have the best wood action that Kawai offers today but they cost €790 euros more.
I found from http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_vpc1_bundle.htm the Kawai VPC1 for €1356 including a stand and software piano (XLN Audio Addictive Keys).
The Kawai ES7 is my second option. Things with ES7 (€1385) will be simple and risk free (Line- In, USB to host, on-board speakers etc.). Its price is comparable to VCP1. I know that I will need speakers with VPC1 and a stand for the ES7. But action will be better with VPC1.
I believe also that VPC1 is a 2013 model where ES7 is 2012.
I will try to do some more homework and testing the piano software with Piano Marvel with the current situation and see if it works for me.
Thanks a lot for helping me I really appreciate it.

I failed to notice that you had any piano software to experiment with yet?
You can download pianoteq trial for free. That will give you enough to experiment with.
Appears you're interested in not going over budget right now. You can use your old keyboard's speakers for the time being.
I would like to support the idea of a VPC for a beginner. Feel is extremely important to me. I need that feedback to my nervous system to learn. Makes it much easier.
You're looking. I imagine you have looked at this thread?: VPC thread
Also pay attention to my post number: 2288803. Pay attention to what I said about Ivory and imaging. All you need to do is set up two monitors correctly. Hardly anyone does that. Follow that thread to see pictures on how I have set them correctly.
I think you might be very interested in the Ravenscroft Software piano in the future. Also go look at the Ravensworks videos. They set their monitors up correctly. They have a set of $6k monitors. I lust to try that our for myself. Software pianos are good and are going to do nothing but get better.

Thanks for the link, you have a very nice set-up, I hope I have something similar soon

I do not have any piano software and I am planning to download pianoteq.

To elaborate a bit more I believe the challenge is to somehow have Pianoteq to sent the notes I play on the VPC1 to Piano Marvel.

Also since Piano Marvel has it own sounds (during playing) to somehow to be able to hear Piano Marvel and the keys I play on the VPC1 from monitors and headphone.

The reason that I am going to all this, is because I like piano Marvel so much and I would like to continue to use it.

They have free demo download full functional for 30 days, and they never bother you will annoying emails. I have an account with them for the last 8 months.

https://www.pianomarvel.com/users/free-trial

LarryMan, perhaps you can ask the Piano Marvel developers if the programme can be used with software piano libraries.

Cheers,
James
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I just did

Thanks for the advice

I have exchanged few emails with Piano Marvel (PM) yesterday telling them if the Programme can be used with piano libraries such as Ivory, Pianoteq, Galaxy, Alicia's Keyset. At the end they asking me if I can share with them a brief description of what those programs do and what you would like to see PM do when connecting to those programs.

Can you please help me with that ?

I would like to give them the requirements in order to see if they can help but a feel that I may not be capable and comprehensive enough due to my limited knowledge. If someone is interested to help me address the issue with them, feel free to private message me too.

Thanks a lot have a nice weekend.

This is the last email I got from them for your reference.

.......those programs. Are they audio reproduction programs that improves the sound from your keyboard? How are you anticipating it working with Piano Marvel? I just took a brief look, they doesn't look similar to some of the acoustic programs that will work like PNOscan from QRS or Piano Disc which also has a light sensor strip that allows Piano Marvel to be used on an acoustic piano. I cc'd our engineers to see if we can better answer your question to whether this works with PM and what our future plans are. Maybe you can share with them a brief description of what those programs do and what you would like to see PM do when connecting to those programs.

These programs (Ivory, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D etc) are computer based sound generators. They are computer programs, meaning they are held in HDD or SSD and loaded to RAM. They are used primarily because they are potentially more realistic, more varied and more flexible than those in digital pianos at the moment.

If Piano Marvel works with external sound sources from a DP, I don't see why it shouldn't work with a computer based sound engine. On the other hand, if Piano Marvel uses its own sound fonts, then the question does not arise anyway.

The obvious thing, though is to do what was suggested above, and download a virtual piano - Pianoteq (it's a good free demo) and see if that works with your present set up. If it does not, then I'd think twice about getting the VPC1.

PS I must say I'm very surprised indeed that Piano Marvel technicians are asking what VSTi piano programs are! Surely to goodness they must know very well what they are and how they function re their own software.

Hi all,

According to Piano Marvel, PM does not support any external sound sources or sound libraries.

No more VPC1 dreams for me

Thank all for your input.

I don't see how this rules out the VPC1. You still have your current DP that can be used with that, and use the VPC1 for real playing

I can think of a number of ways you could use the VPC1 with piano marvel.
If you have a multi-client midi driver and a decent computer, you could run both piano marvel and a software piano at the same time. Or, if you don't have a multi-client driver you could use the USB midi with piano marvel and the 5-pin midi with a software piano, both on the same computer. Or, even simpler, use the USB midi with piano marvel, and the 5-pin midi to another midi module or keyboard for the sound.
It may take some experimentation, but I'd be willing to wager that it could be done fairly easily.