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I listened to the recording - very odd. It sort of sounds like the sample has been designed with a very noticable transition from the attack, to the looped portion. Maybe, just maybe, it is phasing issue with the sample, which changes as the sample playback transitions between attack & loop.
It might be worth listening in mono mode, through headphones, to see if that makes any difference. Make sure you are listening to left + right summed - I don't want you to listen to just the left, or just the right. This is really wild-arse-guessing.
Very interesting problem!
EDIT: Then again, I doubt whether the looping would start that early into the sample.
Greg.
Last edited by sullivang; 08/15/14 07:59 PM.
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There is another user on this forum (McBuster) who has been driven to insanity by G4 on his CA95. I couldn't hear anything wrong in the recording he made, but he certainly can, and maybe it's not coincidence that it's the same note that's causing you problems. Your problems are clearly audible. I can't really see how it can be a hardware issue. Neither can it be software, since yours is the same as everyone else's. The best I can come up with is that the flash ROM has become corrupted somehow. Doesn't really matter to you what the exact cause is - it's up to your dealer to sort it out under the warranty, however they see fit.
One thing that's for sure is that there are bugs in the way sustain is applied by the HI-XL engine: for instance if you play a note then apply the sustain pedal after a pause, the sound gets louder, which is obviously unrealistic and physically impossible. Also when you play certain notes repeatedly with sustain applied, the sound builds up into a cacophony, but with others it doesn't. I have screenshots of the WAV recordings on my CA95 showing this, and another thread confirmed it was still the case on the MP11. I have shared these findings with Kawai Europe but unfortunately I can't force them to do anything about it.
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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There is another user on this forum (McBuster) who has been driven to insanity by G4 on his CA95. Hmmm, I wonder if I'm putting my "head in the sand," so to speak, by playing with a setup that minimizes the evidence of the G4 problem, thus sidestepping it to a large extent, rather than addressing it directly with Kawai and getting the problem resolved? Returning the instrument, or whatever might be required along those lines, would be something of a nightmare to have to do. However, there is no question that the G4 issue is real, and is definitely a problem.
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Okay, didn't want to add more to the mix until I got a definitive response from Kawai Japan through Alan at Kawai USA. But that could be a while, and in light of my new information, I wouldn't want anyone sending back their unit just yet.
Alan called back and told me he dug deeper and was able to confirm that there are stability issues with both G4 and A5. He was able to somewhat reproduce my problem with G4 .. but I've forgotten the exact differences between his experience and my own. One thing is clear: it's much more pronounced through line out.
Alan told me not to bother exchanging the MP11, since it wouldn't help. He also doesn't think it's my speakers or other components.
Alan decided to open an issue with Kawai Japan; they're on vacation so it may be a while before we get an answer. It may be they do nothing.
Now here's some real confounding data: with the JBL LSR 305s I hear no faults in either G4 or A5. Maybe I've gotten used to the wavering in A5, but it no longer stands out. I'm not switching back to confirm because it's a hassle and I've had enough, considering that actual engineers will be looking into it. But G4 .. the biggie .. sounds fine. Since another person noticed a reduced problem with different speakers, I guess it fits.
Could be intermittent - it did go away though we don't know why when we tried transposing once. I'll be listening intently of course, and will relay what Alan tells me when he knows.
Mark
PS: the JBLs sound great!
PPS: Alan is doing a great job confirming the reputation of Kawai support.
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There is another user on this forum (McBuster) who has been driven to insanity by G4 on his CA95. Hi folks, McBuster here ... "Ahhhh, the Ole G3 Problem." to quote WC Fields The Note is actually G3, as, the first full octave starts at "0", not "1". I have submitted this problem twice. First, soon after I got the CA95 and again this summer. I will forward a full review of Kawai Service and The Cure. After trying everything I could thru the Settings, there is something inside that is causing the issue. Yes, my G3 in the Concert Grand voice is faulty. Absolutely consistent. I can also sense other notes in other voices also have an issue. This seems to be related to the Voices made by recording an actual piano. Not generated. At this writing, with over two months into it, I am still waiting for a Tech from Kawai to come and fix it. It is very annoying and I use Pop Piano which sounds much better. Here is a Link for the Sour Note ... http://www.mediafire.com/watch/v21c4p9s1nu88ha/G3_Being_Played.MOV. (Note: G3, is actually G4. I stand corrected.)
Jon ...
Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
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The Note is actually G3, as, the first full octave starts at "0", not "1".
G3 is G below middle C, right? At least that's what the manuals and dictionaries seem to say. (middle c, at around 256Hz is C4 and C0 would be about 16 Hz)
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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You are correct. I am not steeped in anything piano, so I used the values from one of the settings deep in the Menus. My post has been corrected.
Jon ...
Kawai CA67
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Jon, I just read a bit more about this, and you are being too gracious! There is actually a small band of Middle C = C3 people who are following a tradition of Yamaha and EW studios, apparently.....but I think most people say Middle C is C4, which makes sense because only those sub-bass notes (bottom A on a normal piano, bottom C on an Imperial Bösendorfer) would be termed 'zero' range.
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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Okay, didn't want to add more to the mix until I got a definitive response from Kawai Japan through Alan at Kawai USA. But that could be a while, and in light of my new information, I wouldn't want anyone sending back their unit just yet.
Alan called back and told me he dug deeper and was able to confirm that there are stability issues with both G4 and A5. He was able to somewhat reproduce my problem with G4 .. but I've forgotten the exact differences between his experience and my own. One thing is clear: it's much more pronounced through line out.
Alan told me not to bother exchanging the MP11, since it wouldn't help. He also doesn't think it's my speakers or other components.
Alan decided to open an issue with Kawai Japan; they're on vacation so it may be a while before we get an answer. It may be they do nothing.
Now here's some real confounding data: with the JBL LSR 305s I hear no faults in either G4 or A5. Maybe I've gotten used to the wavering in A5, but it no longer stands out. I'm not switching back to confirm because it's a hassle and I've had enough, considering that actual engineers will be looking into it. But G4 .. the biggie .. sounds fine. Since another person noticed a reduced problem with different speakers, I guess it fits.
Could be intermittent - it did go away though we don't know why when we tried transposing once. I'll be listening intently of course, and will relay what Alan tells me when he knows.
Mark
PS: the JBLs sound great!
PPS: Alan is doing a great job confirming the reputation of Kawai support. I think you can rest assured that they are actually looking into a solution for this, as when other issues were encountered they were also addressed. I think reproducibility among several different instruments helps a lot in this process, as well as taking the time to contact Kawai and go through troubleshooting with them.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
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Regarding G4 vs G3 ... it is confusing. That's why I added the phrase 'G above middle C'. There's all sorts of numbering schemes out there and I don't know who uses which where. http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/WhatToCallTheKeys1.htm Mark
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Morodiene,
Thanks for the reassurance, appreciate it.
Mark
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"Scientific pitch notation" is what most people will assume you're using if you give a note name like "C4". In this system, C4 is Middle C. The note below Middle C is B3. For some reason Kawai and Yamaha call Middle C "C3" so all the notes are off by 1 octave to what everyone else thinks they're talking about. Kawai James mentioned that they might be changing this in the future.
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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"Scientific pitch notation" is what most people will assume you're using if you give a note name like "C4". In this system, C4 is Middle C. The note below Middle C is B3. For some reason Kawai and Yamaha call Middle C "C3" so all the notes are off by 1 octave to what everyone else thinks they're talking about. Kawai James mentioned that they might be changing this in the future. Yes, my issue is with the G above middle C, and I think that is also the case with everyone who has noted the problem. I called it G4 because I always think of middle C as C4. I was aware that Kawai refers to middle C as C3, but that didn't occur to me when I made my posts in this thread. I glad to hear that the issue is acknowledged and being addressed. If I get some time, I'll call Alan and let him know that I also experience the issue and look forward to a resolution by Kawai. Having more people speak up about the issue will probably help direct more attention to its solution.
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Re the octave 3/4 issue, I suggest we always include a reference at least once in a post or thread, e.g "Ok hold the phone guys - take a listen to my B3(middle C = C4) - how the heck did THAT get through QC?"
Greg.
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Hello chaps, can we please try to focus the discussion on which note/notes specifically is problematic?
Posting audio recordings (using the built-in WAV/MP3 recorder) is also useful.
Kind regards,
James
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G4 or G above middle C has a break in it ... only present when using speakers, not ... from a recording taken with the MP11 internal USB recorder.
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Thank you Mark.
It's rather strange that the characteristic you're hearing is not captured by the USB audio recorder. This sound is taken directly (digitally) from the instrument's tone generator, and should therefore capture all characteristics - good and bad.
Kind regards,
James
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It's rather strange that the characteristic you're hearing is not captured by the USB audio recorder. This sound is taken directly (digitally) from the instrument's tone generator, and should therefore capture all characteristics - good and bad. James With my G3-4 problem, the USB Recorder sounds great. Headphones sound great. But bad thru the speaker systems. http://www.mediafire.com/watch/v21c4p9s1nu88ha/G3_Being_Played.MOVJon ...
Jon ...
Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
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Regarding G4 vs G3 ... it is confusing. That's why I added the phrase 'G above middle C'.
There's all sorts of numbering schemes out there and I don't know who uses which where.
Mark
To be honest, I got my info from page 90 of the CA95 Manual. User Tuning. The lowest 3-4 notes are (-1), the first octave is (0) and the octave starting with Middle C is (3). Whew, done with that finally.
Jon ...
Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
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James
You are over your PM Limit, but I have some info I would like to share privately with you that will help the G3-4 issue.
.
Jon ...
Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
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