Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Steinhoven... where's the discussion?

I disagree, I think it's closer to 99.99% of the people on this planet wouldn't notice. There's 7 billion people so even 0.01% is still 70 million people. But there might be 100 million piano players in the world (I think 20 million in the US alone), but maybe many of them also couldn't tell the difference between a Steinway or a Steinhoven.

Similarly, there were blind taste tests for red wine done by non-wine drinkers, and most couldn't tell the difference between a two-buck chuck and something like Opus One. But that doesn't mean there's no difference, it just means that most people can't tell the difference.

Well anyway, go play all the pianos, it'd be interesting to see if you're part of the 99.99% or 0.01%.

Robin,

The simmering process seems to have produced mostly facetious comments directed at the name. I suppose that's because the brand has such low industry visibility.

Many years ago I inquired here about a piano named Bostie. Same thing happened. In the absence of anything else, people posted facetiously on the name. A few years later I actually got to see a couple of Bosites in Shanghai and play them. As new, they weren't half bad, and they were cheap. But the only visibility Bosite had in the US was an outfit in Atlanta that was trying to pitch them on eBay.

Going to a showroom and comparing some cheap pianos with those that cost twice the price should be interesting, but it's only half the story. The other half involves intended use.

A member from UK who participates here regularly posted recently that his Chinese Brodmann grand had developed a lot of issues in five years of ownership and that he had to sell it privately because the company's warranty turned out to be worthless in his case. He didn't mention whether he was a heavy user. I'm pretty certain he is.

People who are heavy users are often advised by retailers to stay way from the cheapos. That's not always about upselling. If the dealer is a technician himself he will know some indicators that separate pianos that can take a beating from those that can't. There's a big difference between light recreational use and hours upon hours of daily practice.

Take that into account before you place a bet on a cheapo if you're likely to be a heavy user..

William I am considering at least one more! LOL

Turnadot, that's a v good point about durability. I'll probably be averaging about 30 mins a day, so I guess that's somewhere in the middle. I see from ebay that Yamahas hold their value pretty well. I had been looking at silent grands but baulked at the £5k premium these command over their vanilla acoustic counterparts cf. £2k premium for silent uprights. This resulted in me branching out my research.

Actually, thirty minutes a day is very light use. I'm no technician, but based on my experience as a user, I think you should be ably to shop freely among all the the 'value' brands with the understanding that you will pay attention to routine maintenance.

There are many reasons why Yamaha's silent series command a premium. Obviously the technology adds to the manufacturing costs. But there are marketing considerations too. In the US, a silent grand is often a special order for the retailer. Unit sales are not great. Turnover is slower. I think the market for silents is stronger in Europe, but still weaker than for regular acoustic pianos. Yamaha can also charge a premium because their silent series is the industry standard. They know that.

Resale on silents here in the US is not guaranteed to recoup that premium for the seller. It's like a house with a swimming pool. Some shoppers find it attractive. Many want no part of it. Traditionalists don't want technology sitting inside their pianos, and a majority of acoustic piano buyers are traditionalists. There's also a concern among many people that changes in technology will render their silent piano obsolete. That is not a concern with straight acoustic pianos.

There's no reliable data on this one, be it for intermediate or advanced pianos. While it is easily "assumed" that cheaper brands will automatically need more service, maintainance or replacement under heavy use, the verdict is still highly inconclusive.

I don't know about "Steinhoven" but in our case Brodmann and Ritmuller pianos have been sold to a good number of professionals and institutions. In most cases without the slightest trouble or complaints. In fact we have sold to a good number of teachers, churches, the B.C. Conservatory, Royal Conservatory and more. All "heavy-use" customers.

By same token, let's not forget some top pianos including Steinway appear to be needing constant adjustment and 'polishing' if only to keep them in top condition.
Of course we're talking mostly concert set - the "heaviest" of users.

Anybody ever wondered why so many concert halls are selling their piano after only 2-3 years of stage use?

Demand and expectation is also different between different pianos, a lesser grade piano may be marvelously performing for long time, while another one from higher tier may not - or at least not to the extent expected.

It's not black and white and while some may be happy to knock somebody else's piano - as has happened here on a number of occasions - the verdict appears far from conclusive.

Play on Charlie!

Norbert

I would second this. My grandma has an old Wurlitzer spinet that needs very little work to stay in top shape. Obviously, top shape for that piano is not much.

The quality of the piano is not high, but she knew that when she bought it. The point is, it stays near the purchased quality with surprisingly little work.

I love the sound of Brodmann very much, and it is quite unique, especially on that price level.

It happens that some of the tier 1 pianos are not so attractive to me. I think higher price may mean higher quality for performance, but it is not a guarantee for the satisfaction of one's personal taste.

And I'd like to tell something interesting. (perhaps not related to the subject..)

For me there is a difference between listening and playing. When I play by myself, a brand which I personally love more can be an inspiration for my thought and emotion. However when I listen, I'd rather that the performer played on a brand which I didn't love that much. Something like a Sauter or a Steingraeber may grasp my concentration too much on its sound, which certainly distract me from what the performer try to express.

Of course, good pianists will always own some kind of magnetism to hold my attention on their performance than merely on the piano, haha~

I've noticed the difference as well...

My pianos sound really good to me when I sit and play them; they sound ever better when I stand back and listen to someone else play them.

Of course, I'm sure it has something to do with my playing ability as well, as opposed to someone who really knows how to play a piano.

Rick

It's not necessarily your playing ability, Rick. I notice this too, and I play pretty well. It is such a pleasure when someone else plays my piano and I can just sit out in the room and take it all in!

I hold the same point as Joe. What our ears get from a distance is actually a bit different from what our ears get when sitting at the piano. And a piano which sounds "good" can really be a "wow~" when I hear some others playing on it.

If there were ever an understatement, that would be it.