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#2315470 - 08/14/14 12:19 PM Sturdy support for digital piano?
elfen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 114
Loc: UK
I have recently purchased a digital piano 'bundle' that includes a standard keyboard stand and a fordable seat. Since I don't have too much space in my studio apartment I thought the setup would work out perfectly for me...until I finished setting up and played my test run. The moment I hit the starting octave of Chopin etude I knew the keyboard stand would not tolerate any degree of banging and even arpeggios at forte! Realizing my oversight I am putting the playing on hold until I get a decent stand - since the piano manufacturer's stand is rather expensive at ~$150.

As such I am hoping to find an alternative at slight lower budget. Considering the height of the unit itself, the height of the support (~25 inches/ 60-65 cm) should be between a coffee table and a dining table in height, and have enough width to cover the length of the keyboard, at 50 inches. In fact, I have an Ikea table with adjustable legs that meets the need but just wondering if there is any other setup that allows heavy pounding at low and high registers?


Edited by elfen (08/14/14 12:24 PM)

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#2315539 - 08/14/14 03:59 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 34
For really solid stands, you may need to pay a bit. I saw a K&M Omega stand and was very impressed with the stability -- but at $200, it's more than your manufacturer's stand.

I've got an older stand like the On-Stage WS8540 that I love, but when I ordered a more recent model, it proved to be very wobbly. Based on the stickers, they shifted manufacturing to China, and apparently didn't give tight enough specifications.

Some of the double-tube x-stands work pretty well. But they may not be up to Chopin!

I'd say this is very much a case where you'll want to try and buy at the local music shop, rather than mail order. It's a pain to ship back lousy stands.

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#2315566 - 08/14/14 05:19 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2380
Loc: UK
I have the quiklok ws650, rock solid, slightly cheaper, the height adjustment is quite coarse however, but mod-able with a drill

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#2315614 - 08/14/14 08:16 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9346
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I always recommend the K&M 18950 stand.

This is expensive, but it is built like a tank and very stable.

There are similarly designed stands from other manufacturers that are available for less, however I cannot vouch for their stability/sturdiness.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2315748 - 08/15/14 01:32 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
moleskincrusher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 172
About six months ago I bought a Quik Lok Monolith for my gigging slab after reading Dave Horne's positive opinion (thank you, Dave). Never liked Z or X stands, and I found the ironing-board type stands unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons (e.g., others tripping over the legs). I have my Roland on a V-stand which is superb but expensive.

Bought the Monolith unseen online ($95 in USA) and I think it's the best stand I've ever had or used. Rock solid, easiest setup ever, heavy but easy to carry, no chance of a wandering pedal. Only be sure to set the piano on the back part of the supports.

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#2315843 - 08/15/14 08:01 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: moleskincrusher]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1893
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: moleskincrusher
About six months ago I bought a Quik Lok Monolith for my gigging slab after reading Dave Horne's positive opinion (thank you, Dave). Never liked Z or X stands, and I found the ironing-board type stands unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons (e.g., others tripping over the legs). I have my Roland on a V-stand which is superb but expensive.

Bought the Monolith unseen online ($95 in USA) and I think it's the best stand I've ever had or used. Rock solid, easiest setup ever, heavy but easy to carry, no chance of a wandering pedal. Only be sure to set the piano on the back part of the supports.



I checked this out and found that the height range was ...

26.2 to 36" (66.5 to 91.5 cm).


That seems about an inch too high at the lowest setting.

Have you found this to be the case ?

Of course, if you play standing up ... no problem.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2315866 - 08/15/14 09:32 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 34
The Quik-Lok Monolith does look nice. Yes, based on a quick measurement, 26.2 inches would put the keybed of an ES7 about an inch higher than my acoustic Kawai, so it does seem odd that that's the shortest it gets. I probably wouldn't notice much (I play on a lot of pianos, often raised up on dollies), but given an option I'd as soon have them at the same height. I do like the bar that keeps your sustain pedal from wandering about.

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#2316585 - 08/17/14 02:46 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: dmd]
moleskincrusher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 172
dmd: I find the sitting height of the Monolith (with the height bars sticking thru the lowest holes) just right for me, but then I'm 6 feet 2 in tall and like to play with my bench at its highest setting.

Others I believe just push the bars in and move the supports to their lowest possible position, below the holes.

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#2316910 - 08/18/14 11:48 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
SlyFrank Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 1
I found this height issue out about 15 years ago when I bought a Quik-Lok Z-stand for my Roland A-90. Even at the lowest setting it was a bit high for my playing preference. Maybe I like my hands a bit too low, but I never had this issue with acoustics. So I measured a bunch of acoustics and sure enough, the keys were all at least an inch lower than the lowest setting on my A-90 on my Z-stand. I thought it was so odd, as there were all these settings up high (I assume for people who stand when playing) and yet they couldn't provide a 'normal' sitting height.

So I took the stand to a welder who cutoff the legs, cut out about an inch, then rewelded it back together. I was skeptical that it would be as strong, but it hasn't failed since. But since I'm either getting a VPC-1 or MP11, which are heavy, I am considering a sturdier stand like an Omega. I'll have to make sure about the height….

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#2316923 - 08/18/14 12:25 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
scorpio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 527
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I plan to purchase an MP11 at some point. It seems odd that there are no decent, stable stands that also meet a typical acoustic height requirement. Right now, the stand issue is holding up my purchase. I really have no interest in having the key height 2 inches higher than "normal."

I have been thinking of trying the K&M 18953 stand, but I am concerned that it is neither deep nor wide enough to hold the MP11. Ugh confused
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2316983 - 08/18/14 03:07 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: moleskincrusher]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1893
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: moleskincrusher
Others I believe just push the bars in and move the supports to their lowest possible position, below the holes.


So, are you telling me that if you remove the "stopper" from the stand and just let it sit on the "bottom" ... it will be at a lower level than the one indicated by the specs ?

AND ... and it is a big and ... that level will be appropriate for most/many keyboards.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2316996 - 08/18/14 03:58 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
skiranged Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 5
Loc: New Mexico
I have this Proel platform-type stand (http://www.proel.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_8_45_178&product_id=3524) that I got at my local music shop maybe 10 years ago (about $100). They sell a version without the 2nd tier, although the 2nd tier "arms" are removable (I leave them home about half the time, and the other half of the time they support a music rest). I play rock & roll/rockabilly so there is plenty of pounding, and this thing is rock-solid. The X-style stands wobble and shake all over.

Another thing you can change is the height of your seat. I use a drum throne ($90), in part because it's more comfortable when you are doing a night's worth of sitting. But it is really easy to dial in the perfect height (like an old-style piano stool).

Just some thoughts.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-5S, Kustom KMA-65 (gig rig)
Hamilton by Baldwin studio piano (home)
Read my blah blah blog at skiranged.blogspot.com

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#2317045 - 08/18/14 06:33 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1893
Loc: Pennsylvania
I looked at the specifications ....

It says minimum height = 720 inches.

What does that mean ? The shortest height is 60 feet ? Not real useful.

Am I mis-reading that ?

Must be a typo. LOL ...


Edited by dmd (08/18/14 06:34 PM)
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2317075 - 08/18/14 07:48 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: dmd]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9346
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dmd
I looked at the specifications ....

It says minimum height = 720 inches.

What does that mean ? The shortest height is 60 feet ? Not real useful.

Am I mis-reading that ?

Must be a typo. LOL ...


Try changing the website language to Italian (Proel is an Italian company) - you will see the minimum heigh shows 720 mm, so yes, it would appear that 720 inches is indeed an error.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2317168 - 08/19/14 03:31 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: dmd]
moleskincrusher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: moleskincrusher
Others I believe just push the bars in and move the supports to their lowest possible position, below the holes.


So, are you telling me that if you remove the "stopper" from the stand and just let it sit on the "bottom" ... it will be at a lower level than the one indicated by the specs ?

AND ... and it is a big and ... that level will be appropriate for most/many keyboards.



Yes, though I can't link you to the place on the Forum I read that. Also, I recall that Dave Horne in a thread on this subject 3+ years ago wrote that he welded his Monolith at a lower height. Sounds to me like a workable solution, maybe worth the trouble.

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#2320599 - 08/27/14 10:42 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
I have just ordered the K&M 18950 stand from Thomann but have yet to authorise payment, so there is still time to change to either the 18953 or the 18810 K&Ms.

Thomann advertises the minimum height of the 18950 as 650mm, while K&M puts it at 670mm.

Has any owner of this stand taken a tape measure and actually measured the real minimum height of this stand?

I am a bit confused.

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#2320710 - 08/27/14 02:47 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: Abby Pianoman]
scorpio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 527
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I am curious too. I need to decide how I am going to support my MP11.

If you take off the movable legs on the K&M 18950, and let it sit on the floor (I would add caps to the bottoms of the legs), what is the height of the stand?


Edited by scorpio (08/27/14 02:47 PM)
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2320868 - 08/27/14 10:42 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Haven't received it yet. Got to pay up first. You place an order, then you have 21 days to pay up. After payment, you receive it within 5 working days from Germany.
The order is automatically cancelled after 21 days, in case of non payment.

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#2320921 - 08/28/14 01:28 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
HaraldC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 10
Especially for the MP11 and only from the information found on internet, I narrowed it down at either:
K&M 18950 --or-- Quik Lok WS-650

See also this thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2297073

The K&M at it's lower setting it's very marginal for me.
Quik Lok apparently have coarse setting steps (but could potentially be hacked with a drill)

I think I'll go with the Quik Lok

IIRC I've seen an unpacking video on this forum (and YouTube) that showed the Quick Lok stand.

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#2327089 - 09/13/14 10:05 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: scorpio]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
64.2 Cms.

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#2327092 - 09/13/14 10:10 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: scorpio]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Originally Posted By: scorpio
I am curious too. I need to decide how I am going to support my MP11.

If you take off the movable legs on the K&M 18950, and let it sit on the floor (I would add caps to the bottoms of the legs), what is the height of the stand?


64.2 Centimetres with removable legs off, and 67 Centimetres with removable legs and rubber feet on.

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#2327161 - 09/13/14 01:57 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
phunqe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/14
Posts: 49
I have the Quiklok WS-550 for my MP11 and it doesn't budge even a millimeter. Really good stands in my opinion.
I would then assume the WS-650 is of equal or better quality.

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#2327215 - 09/13/14 06:02 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
ChoPraTs Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Spain
Like Scorpio, I'm looking for the best stand for a Kawai MP11.

And like HaraldC, I'm thinking about K&M 18950 or Quick Lok WS-650.

Abby Pianoman, I also liked the K&M 18810, but it's the used by Kawai in some MP11 oficial videos and since I could see it's very, very wobbly, I don't like it. So, attending to video, I think this support it's not the best.

The On-Stage WS8540 I think it's similar to Quick Lok WS-650... But If Colorodney thinks it's very wobbly, don't know what to think about that.
_________________________
David Prats Juan
http://www.DavidPratsJuan.com

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#2327240 - 09/13/14 07:16 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: ChoPraTs]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9346
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ChoPraTs
Abby Pianoman, I also liked the K&M 18810, but it's the used by Kawai in some MP11 oficial videos and since I could see it's very, very wobbly, I don't like it. So, attending to video, I think this support it's not the best.


Please note that the K&M 18810 (aka 'Spider' 'Omega') is a very different design to that of the K&M 18950. I don't know why the stand in the Kawai Europe MP11 videos is so wobbly (it's perhaps accentuated because the camera is often zoomed into the instrument?), however as you can see in the Kawai Japan MP11 videos, the K&M 18950 is very stable.

Cheers,
James
x


Edited by Kawai James (09/15/14 01:58 AM)
Edit Reason: Incorrect stand name. Good catch David!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2327267 - 09/13/14 08:55 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
scorpio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 527
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I ended up with the On Stage WS8550. It is not wobbly at all. In fact I am very pleased with it. I have the keyboard at the appropriate height and it is stable.

I plan to make a custom stand for it - mostly for appearance. But I am not in a rush since this On Stage stand is working great for me.
_________________________
Kawai MP11 :: JBL LSR305 :: Focusrite 2i4 :: Pianoteq Standard

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#2327351 - 09/14/14 04:03 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: Kawai James]
ChoPraTs Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: ChoPraTs
Abby Pianoman, I also liked the K&M 18810, but it's the used by Kawai in some MP11 oficial videos and since I could see it's very, very wobbly, I don't like it. So, attending to video, I think this support it's not the best.


Please note that the K&M 18810 (aka 'Spider') is a very different design to that of the K&M 18950. I don't know why the stand in the Kawai Europe MP11 videos is so wobbly (it's perhaps accentuated because the camera is often zoomed into the instrument?), however as you can see in the Kawai Japan MP11 videos, the K&M 18950 is very stable.

Cheers,
James
x


Yes, I know. The K&M 18810 (I think is called Omega) is completely diferent to 18950. Sure the 18950 is more stable.
_________________________
David Prats Juan
http://www.DavidPratsJuan.com

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#2327417 - 09/14/14 10:53 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: ChoPraTs]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
I can vouch for the K&M 18950's solidness. It is SOLID.
No wobbles here. I'm a bit mystified as to why K&M decided to make the minimum height so high.

Probably it was intended for other uses as well, not only keyboards.

I have to add 5 more Centimetres to my Piano bench to obtain a reasonable sitting and playing position. Using the second tier Keyboard is a bit uncomfortable. And this is without the extensions.

But the beauty of Ibiza is that there are Metal and Aluminium workshops all over the place, that will chop and repaint the stand to my desired measurements for as little as 10 Euros.

Monday will be Operation Stand Chop day.

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#2328654 - 09/18/14 07:37 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
K&M 18950.
Ok. I had a guy chop off 5 Centimetres ( just under 2 inches ), drill new holes for the extension tubes, and apply some anti corrosion paint, all for 10 Euros.

Now the MP11 sits at 71.2 Cms ( approximately 28 inches) from floor to the to top of the keys, with extension tubes and rubber feet attached. Any self respecting Metal Workshop can do this for you in under 20 minutes.

I now have a very comfortable playing position at this height.

I hope this is helpful to those who are considering this stand.

IT IS ONE SOLID BEAST.

Takes a bit longer to set up than my previous X stand, but now my worries of my Piano crashing down when I pound it, are gone.


Edited by Abby Pianoman (09/18/14 07:39 AM)

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#2328666 - 09/18/14 07:59 AM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9346
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
10 Euros? That's a bargain!

Did you snap some pics of the wip or finished stand?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2328854 - 09/18/14 09:05 PM Re: Sturdy support for digital piano? [Re: elfen]
Abby Pianoman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 118
Loc: Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Nope. Didn't have time James.
Had to set up and perform almost straight away. Just had time for a change of clothes.
I'll snap the pictures on Saturday and post them.

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