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Maybe the hard part here (besides guessing right on what you mean by Ringo Starr) is figuring out what number "10000" is in base 2! (I couldn't believe it needed that many 0's.)
But I will say.....if it's what I'm thinking, I wouldn't call the piece "well known." Yeah, it's not one of the 'unknown' ones, but.....let me put it this way: It's probably the least known of the ones that aren't mostly unknown. * I probably wouldn't have known of it yet, except that it's on a Glenn Gould LP.
Mark... What example were you thinking of when you wrote this?
But I will say.....if it's what I'm thinking, I wouldn't call the piece "well known." Yeah, it's not one of the 'unknown' ones, but.....let me put it this way: It's probably the least known of the ones that aren't mostly unknown. * I probably wouldn't have known of it yet, except that it's on a Glenn Gould LP.
Mark... What example were you thinking of when you wrote this?
-J
I am curious also, since I consider it to be "well known". (Gee, I would probably describe it a little differently but then I would give away the answer. Perhaps, I could describe it in "French"?)
Gottit finally - and without deciphering the binary code, too. Odd thing was I could visualize the score and name its composer when I first read the OP. But not the composition.
Shall I spout it, beet?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
Gottit finally - and without deciphering the binary code, too. Odd thing was I could visualize the score and name its composer when I first read the OP. But not the composition.
Shall I spout it, beet?
Maybe, some on the forum would like to "sleep on it".
But I will say.....if it's what I'm thinking, I wouldn't call the piece "well known." Yeah, it's not one of the 'unknown' ones, but.....let me put it this way: It's probably the least known of the ones that aren't mostly unknown. * I probably wouldn't have known of it yet, except that it's on a Glenn Gould LP.
Mark... What example were you thinking of when you wrote this?
6th (final) variation of: (this fits the description except for how it doesn't -- doesn't meet the "A" and "B" thing)
The variation starts at 8:02, "Allegretto." I have no idea why the "Adagio molto," which starts at 9:10 (with a riff intro before that), isn't considered a separate variation. Actually I suppose it's a reprise of the opening theme (very elaborated), but aren't such reprises usually labelled as a separate variation, or at least (as in the Goldberg) titled in a way to make it distinct from the previous variation? I think usually yes. I think we can be pretty sure Beethoven had something in mind in making it (apparently) part of what preceded, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of you will come up with ideas on it. I might have been able to myself but I don't feel like thinking.
BTW youtube also has a video with ACTUAL VIDEO of Gould playing it, which is of a different performance. Usually when there's a choice like this I'd post the one with the video, but in this case his tempo in the other one is so slow you could die.
What the hey, I think the people here are pretty hardy. I'll post that one too:
I think DameMyra thought I meant some other piece.
It's certainly not a "B" section; the 6th variation "proper" covers the whole theme, so whatever that Adagio section is needs to be considered something different.
You *could* call it a 7th variation, but it's really functioning more as a coda/elaborated reprise of the theme. As for whether you're supposed to label such a thing specially, I don't know. There are only two other data point I know of: The Goldbergs does label its reprise of the theme, while op.109 last movement does not.
....when I was thinking about Brahms, I had to wonder: why is it that his Variations on an Original Theme (Op 21) is not more often played?
What a fabulous work.
Yes it is. Why not more played? I think a bunch of reasons. It's very hard and kind of elusive, tough to figure out (both note-wise and musically-wise), but not hard in a way that sounds hard or particularly impressive except to the most cognizant of the cognoscenti -- that is to say, people like us.
Many people, including knowledgeable classical music lovers, find it "boring" upon first hearing. And, often upon second, third, and fourth hearings too, unless it's a super performance. In this respect, it's similar to the slow movements of late Beethoven and large portions of Schubert's late sonatas.
Speaking of which, how often does Schubert's posthumous B-flat Sonata get played?? Not nearly as often as it might -- and I think it's for similar reasons, although with the Schubert there's also the thing of how long it is.
Think I've thought of two more candidate variations that might just fit the OPs criteria - both classical, by a famous composer, but not familiar repertoire works. I suppose I've just made the quiz 3 times more challenging, haven't I. But at least beet can share our own fun as a fellow contestant now!
Originally Posted by argerichfan
....when I was thinking about Brahms, I had to wonder: why is it that his Variations on an Original Theme (Op 21) is not more often played?
What a fabulous work.
I do so agree. For me they're among his very most beautiful, self-transcending and powerfully intimate works - the apotheosis and swan-song of his musical youth, whose imminent passing he seems to recognize himself (and in that sentiment of valediction and musical plane, matching the Alto Rhapsody and Four Serious Songs). I don't know about you, but while I couldn't be without the Handel Variations (published just 4 years later) I have to consciously remind myself they're actually by the same composer.
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Speaking of which, how often does Schubert's posthumous B-flat Sonata get played?? Not nearly as often as it might -- and I think it's for similar reasons, although with the Schubert there's also the thing of how long it is.
I thought every last concert pianist on the planet plays that. To death, I feel!
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
....I thought every last concert pianist on the planet plays that. To death, I feel!
It's "to death" only if they take all the repeats.
To me the repeat in the 1st mvt is a little dilemma, because for the most sake I feel little doubt that it's best to leave it out (I can already feel the tomatoes being thrown at me) ....but.... that means we lose the great great 1st ending followed by the return to the opening.
BTW, IMO, taking this repeat isn't as 'bad' as taking it in the 1st mvt of Chopin's 3rd Sonata, where if you take it, to me a very great piece gets almost ruined.
Quote
....the apotheosis and swan-song of his musical youth, whose imminent passing he seems to recognize himself (and in that sentiment of valediction and musical plane, matching the Alto Rhapsody and Four Serious Songs)....
I just love how you wrote about the Brahms Op. 21, but I don't see the "musical youth" thing. Actually I don't think of it along any such lines, but if I must ....to me it's more like looking way ahead to the eventual end of life, maybe prompted by losses or disappointments and feeling like there would never quite be what he might have wished for from life. (BTW, did he know Clara yet .....I imagine he did.)
I know those other pieces fairly well too. We sort of studied the Vier Ernste Gesänge (sorry for the German, that's how we learned it) in a college music history course, and the Alto Rhapsody was performed there at a concert as sort of a prelude to the Brahms Requiem. I think the "alto" was a then-mostly-unknown Jessye Norman (even though nominally she's a soprano -- she has "range," in every respect).
P.S. No idea on those 2 pieces in your quiz! After all I almost didn't come up with even the one example...
OT, when I was thinking about Brahms, I had to wonder: why is it that his Variations on an Original Theme (Op 21) is not more often played?
What a fabulous work.
Along with some of the late pieces and the 3rd Piano Sonata, this is my favorite Brahms piano work. I'm not the biggest fan of Brahms (yet, I'm sure), but I just love this piece.
Anyone else want to try? And is it possible this is a unique phenomenon?
One of the variations in "The People United Will Never Be Defeated!" does it (Variation #27). It starts slow, then suddenly goes into a faster Keith Jarrett/minimalism mash-up, returns to the slow tempo, and recaps the Jarrett bit again.
And I'm guessing that the variation you had in mind is the "French Overture > fugato" variation from the Goldbergs?
is figuring out what number "10000" is in base 2! (I couldn't believe it needed that many 0's.)
I would probably describe it a little differently but then I would give away the answer. Perhaps, I could describe it in "French"?)
