Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
87 registered (ando, armani, beeboss, anamnesis, AndrewJCW, 22 invisible), 1054 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#2322017 - 08/30/14 09:10 PM special gloves to reinforce good hand position
Will1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 3
I'm a self-taught beginner piano player, and I struggle to keep my hands curved enough while playing. I've tried several reinforcement tactics such as holding silly putty in my palms and rubber banding the fingers of each hand around half a lacrosse ball. These tricks have major drawbacks, so I'm wondering if a better solution already exists. I'm picturing a special kind of glove with springy material that keeps the hand in the classic position. The resistance of the glove shouldn't be too high because players need to move their fingers, but it should be high enough to penalize flat hands and flat fingers. Does this already exist? If not, the implementation could be a worthwhile enterprise.

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2322018 - 08/30/14 09:19 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12587
Loc: Canada
Oh goodness, you don't want to aim for that at all. There are still some old fashioned books around, and some old fashioned instructions on-line, that have this "ball-holding, "curved hand" idea. It's caused problems for quite a few people.

When you hang your arms down with your hands down relaxed, that's the starting shape you want to have. As you play the piano, the shape will keep changing. For example, if you spread your hand to cover a whole octave, they would be rather flat. If you had them on 5 white keys from C to G it would be rounder because the fingertips are closer together. If you covered some black keys, you'd have another shape again.

Asking a moderator ---- There used to be basic lesson that was stickied - did it get unstickied, and could it get restickied, I wonder? It was by a teacher, and highlighted by Dave Frank, as I recall.

Top
#2322040 - 08/30/14 10:18 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
Forrest Halford Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 546
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Listen to keystring.

No gadgets, just what your body does naturally.

Forrest
_________________________
Mozart K. 332
Bach 866
Schumann Op. 15

Top
#2322043 - 08/30/14 10:30 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
fizikisto Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1161
Loc: Hernando, MS
Yes. Keystring is exactly right here. I'll add that rather than worrying about keeping some particular shape, you should be focusing on being comfortable and relaxed. You want to eliminate unnecessary tension wherever it might rear its ugly head. It often shows up in the shoulders, or the lower back, or the wrists. Focus on finding a comfortable position (right height, right distance from the piano, etc...) and just focus on playing in a way that is relaxed without collapsing your joints.

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

Top
#2322047 - 08/30/14 10:36 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: keystring]
Will1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 3
That comes far more naturally, and it's the way I play now. I got rid of collapsed knuckles within the first month or so with Leschetizky's solution, but I was having a really hard time maintaining the "ball-holding" that my old-school book recommends. (I have big hands.) Now that I search around, I see that there's a lot of debate about neutral hand position. Thanks for the tip!

Top
#2322073 - 08/30/14 11:51 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
Will1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 3
Thanks, everyone, this makes a lot more sense. Gotta work on loosening up.

Top
#2322089 - 08/31/14 01:07 AM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22791
Loc: Oakland
Many people have ruined their hands using devices to hold them in unnatural positions while playing the piano. Robert Schumann comes to mind.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#2322222 - 08/31/14 12:21 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: BDB]
carlos88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Colorado
Time, patience, and slow playing helped me. My thumbs and pinkies used to stick out at all angles.

For about a year, I spent 10-20 minutes per day with slow playing, mostly Bach 2-part inventions, and tried to keep my hands relaxed, with fingers in control. When my pinkies started to point outwards (which meant my hand was tense again), I'd slow down more.


Fingers, hands and wrists are delicate things, stay away from the gadgets.


Edited by carlos88 (08/31/14 12:22 PM)
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

Top
#2322231 - 08/31/14 12:37 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12587
Loc: Canada
The upsetting thing is when people use their hands naturally in the first place, and then some stupid book or instruction gets them to try to do something unnatural because supposedly that's how it's supposed to be done - and then they ruin something that was fine.

Top
#2322250 - 08/31/14 01:51 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: keystring]
Brian Lucas Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 1098
Loc: Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: keystring
The upsetting thing is when people use their hands naturally in the first place, and then some stupid book or instruction gets them to try to do something unnatural because supposedly that's how it's supposed to be done - and then they ruin something that was fine.

Complete agreement here. The one I use as well is reaching out as if to shake someone's hand, then rotate your hand and drop down to the keys. This will also help you figure out if you're too close to/too far from the keys. The ball thing never made sense to me.

I'm also curious why hand/wrist problems usually tend to be left hand issues. I initially thought it might be a right-handed thing, but I've had leftys also drop just their left wrist.
_________________________
-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music

Top
#2322279 - 08/31/14 03:17 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
Charles Cohen Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 2074
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
One problem with the original "gloves" suggestion:

When you take the special gloves _off_, to play something seriously, your muscles are going to have to develop new habits! The "glove resistance" will be gone.

All-in-all, not a good idea.

. Charles

PS -- there is a classic S/F story by Kurt Vonnegut, about a world in which every person who is talented is forced to have a 'handicapping machine' which reduces him/her to "average ability". It's not a pretty story.
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / ZXA1 speaker

Top
#2322508 - 09/01/14 05:21 AM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: keystring]
casinitaly Online   blank


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5745
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: keystring
Asking a moderator ---- There used to be basic lesson that was stickied - did it get unstickied, and could it get restickied, I wonder? It was by a teacher, and highlighted by Dave Frank, as I recall.


Are you talking about the videos? I don't remember the fellows name. I think they got unstickied a while back when folks were complaining about too many stickies. smile

If you can help me remember what the name of the fellow was, or what the thread title was I can insert a link into the "Important information" thread.

BTW: moderators don't read every post in every thread - I just happened to see this by chance. If you have a request of this nature, it's ok to "report" the thread with a note to get our attention smile , or to PM one of us and flag the thread.
_________________________
XVIII-XXXIX
Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard. BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

Top
#2322517 - 09/01/14 05:55 AM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 2220
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
I've read elsewhere about pianists taking their gloves off, I don't think the expression always is meant to be interpreted literally wink.

What you don't want are joints that indent during playing. When starting out it can take deliberate practice to achieve this.

Top
#2322641 - 09/01/14 12:37 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
carlos88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Colorado
Is this the video/topic?

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...oper_Hand_.html

(If it's not, I still think it's another great video by Robert Estrin)
_________________________
I'd rather play badly than not at all...

Top
#2324187 - 09/04/14 09:40 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5446
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Will1
Thanks, everyone, this makes a lot more sense. Gotta work on loosening up.

One way to do this is to go so slow you prevent tightening in the first place. It's not very glamorous, but it is very effective. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2324193 - 09/04/14 10:02 PM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: carlos88]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12587
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: carlos88
Is this the video/topic?

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...oper_Hand_.html

(If it's not, I still think it's another great video by Robert Estrin)

That's the one I was thinking of. That's the one that used to be stickied.

Top
#2324223 - 09/05/14 12:00 AM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Will1]
imustlearn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/14
Posts: 32
Having a support tool/device to keep your hands in position sounds horrible . The more you play and practice , the more comfortable your fingers will become .

When I first started I had a really hard time as well , it feels unnatural and weird but after a while it becomes alot easier.

Piano to me , is like learning to touch type from the beginning.
_________________________
Casio PX850

Top
#2324287 - 09/05/14 05:51 AM Re: special gloves to reinforce good hand position [Re: Brian Lucas]
JohnSprung Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 2097
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
The one I use as well is reaching out as if to shake someone's hand, then rotate your hand and drop down to the keys.


Yes, but most important, use only the minimum necessary rotation. That's the comfort zone, and an added bonus is that it gets big 2, 3, and 4 fingers between the black keys a little easier. That puts the contact point a little toward the outboard side of your fingertips, not absolutely square on, like getting fingerprinted by the cops. ;-)
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad) Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
PianoDisc
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bad to visually memorize chords?
by Fatih
37 minutes 20 seconds ago
Showing signs of...
by johan d
Today at 06:35 AM
Help with KAWAI CE-7N
by dominic70s
Today at 02:54 AM
Concert tuning or not
by TheTuner
Today at 01:19 AM
Had to Pass on some Work Today.....
by Musicdude
Today at 12:30 AM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,605 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,643 Topics
2,441,551 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission