Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum My New Steinbuhler small keyboard

JordanG recently directed me to this thread, which I read with great interest. Let me address the confusion about smaller keyboards for upright pianos. At this point it is not practical for me to offer a retrofit on an upright piano. I am offering new uprights pianos with smaller keyboards. In addition to the imported Chinese upright piano which is showed on my website, you can also purchase a Charles Walters upright with a smaller keyboard.

What a terrific thread! Thanks, Jordang, for taking the time to write about your adventures in such detail. The pictures were very helpful as well.

p.s. You realize you have a dreamboat of a hubby, don't you?

p.p.s. Welcome to the forum, David. Your keyboards are amazing.

Using Jordang's photo illustration of F# to F#
I can reach F# to G#..would I'd better suited to
the 15/16 model rather than the 7/8? Bob

This is one of the most intereting threads I've read in some time.

I can see why is is so expensive. It is almost unbelievable that detail work and accuracy necessary for this to work can be executed.

I am really impressed!

I want one I want one I want one!!!!!

What's the story with getting one of these babies in Australia?

To answer Bob Newbie's question on what keyboard size a pianist should use I offer the following suggestions.

First stretch your hand over a ruler and measure your hand span in the same way as pictured in the Hand Gauge below.



Then compare your hand span with the hands and zones in the chart below. The data in the chart was collected at the 2004 MTNA National Convention. A red dot shows the hand span of a female pianist and a blue dot shows the hand span of a male pianist. Below the dots I have created three zones for three keyboard sizes that represent all of my observations of pianists playing many keyboard sizes over the past 10 years. Notice the three keyboard sizes are divided into three overlapping zones allowing for differences in finger thickness and personal preference. But there is no substitute for a pianist actually experiencing the keyboards.

Thanks! Its 8 1/4.. where do I "fit" in ? Bob

Bob. Your hand size puts you in the top range of the 7/8 and the mid range of the 15/16, as I understand the presentation.. Please consider that your hand size might be only 7 3/4 inches. When I put a ruler up to my computer screen, the picture above is out of scale. 7 3/4 puts you more into the 7/8 range. So you need to use a ruler and then look carefully at the zones of the above picture. Also it is my understanding that finger size has something to do with which you would like the best. Think about how thick your fingers are.

As we wrote about, the Dallas area has universities using both sizes.

Thanks David for contributing. Please tell us about your efforts to make it easier for people in Australia and Europe to get the keyboards.

Jordang, thanks so much for the time and energy you spent in describing all your journey. One has the impression that you lead a happy life with, among other things, a husband that after 30 years marriage is still full of attentions and devotes a lot of energy in your common "projects". Beautiful to read and best wishes and congratulations to both of you!

On the more "technical" side, I'd say that costs in excess of USD 8k for a retrofit will confine this extremely interesting solution to a niche market, particularly in bespoke quality-rebuilds for people with smaller hands. Still, an extremely interesting idea and it surprises that only Charles Walters offers it from the scratch seen with how many personalizations fine pianos can be ordered.
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I have a question for you: do you think that such a keyboard, after allowing for the necessary adjustments, may be beneficial also for people with no particular hand problems?

I am thinking about the following:

1. I can take a 9th, and next years hopefully a 10th. Still, no doctor has ever prescribed that I have to stretch my hands more than perfectly comfortable (situations of partial "discomfort" do happen to me, it certainly does not help the playing).

2. I have, like you, thin fingers; is it fair to assume that a 7/8 keyboard would allow me *greater speed* and *greater ease of playing* even by smaller intervals, whilst the thin fingers would avoid the problem of "overcrowding"? I was astonished at how easily you adapted to the new keyboard, so this 7/8 must fall very "naturally" under the hand of people with thin fingers, right?
Or to put it in a different way: if one has thin fingers, why should the 7/8 keyboard not be beneficial to him even if his hands would allow him to use the standard keyboard?

Food for thought, really... I cannot avoid thinking how would it be to play all the pieces I now know on such a keyboard for ease of learning and speed, irrespective of hands span...

Thanks again. God bless you.

Jordang: I measured in 2 ways..first with a ruler..then I placed my hand on my piano keys
and measured my hand on the keys I can reach a 9th
(no strain)would I be looking at a 15/16 model?

Bob, I was expecting that David would get back today, but he has not. So let me try to give my much less informed opinion. Your hand size is in the lower part of the 15/16 zone, I believe. If you were playing on it you could play another key or two in your stretch. You could play wide interval chords more comfortably. If you have small fingers you could also play the 7/8 keyboard very well and gain another key. Some people prefer the 15/16 keyboard because there is less difference from the normal size and they can switch easier between keyboards with less adjustment. SMU, etc. research shows that when people practice and learn pieces on small keyboards, and then perform on a normal keyboard, they usually do fine. The extra stress and stretching of practice is greatly reduced and people learn pieces much easier and have much more confidence.

You are most welcome. We are glad that you are getting good information that you're interested in from our thread. Yes, I do lead a happy life right now and am truly thankful for my husband. Relationships and marriage is not always smooth sailing, as we all know; and one has to go through that tunnel of tubulence and problems and get to the other side to find a smooth patch in the road again. But it is worth it when you get there.


My opinion is that the smaller keyboard would be beneficial for people with thin fingers. It should allow one to play with greater speed and comfort, if that person has the ability, technique and talent to do so. I have been playing the piano since I was about five years old and, obviously adjusted to the standard key size. Since Joseph Hoffmann had keyboards that were adjusted to the size of his hand and he was such an amazing pianist, other people would excell as he did, don't you think? I found the 7/8 keyboard easy to adjust to, as I said earlier. I don't know how difficult it would be for a person who learned on a 7/8 keyboard to adjust to the larger key size. That is a question, perhaps, David or Dr. Carol Leone could better answer for you. I would be interested in their answer. Be sure and read Dr. Leone's lecture which is referenced on Steinbuhler's web site.

I am currently a public school teacher with plans to become a private and class piano teacher again in a few years when I retire. I plan to teach young children, especially 3, 4, and 5 year olds, on my Steinbuhler keyboard. Until then I have no personal data or experience to know how easy or difficult switching to a larger keyboard size would be for children. However, the universities are reporting how very easy and helpful the switching is for older people. Dr. Leone is now trying it with children in their Piano Preparatory Department. Be sure and read the story about the young boy performing Rachmaninov at a convention.
Boy at Convention

This idea of a reduced-size keyboard sounds very interesting. I don't have very small hands, but then they are still probably only 3/4 the size of Rachmaninoff's. There have been times when I've wanted to play 12ths, 13ths, or even 15ths, but have been unable to.

This is my hand playing an easy 8th (octave)
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/PianoPlayer88Key/PianoHandStretch/photo#5193131992057752530"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/PianoPlayer88Key/SBG2CEpRq9I/AAAAAAAAAYA/-e1L2_poZGw/s640/Piano_Hand_Stretch_08th.JPG" /></a>

Here is a 10th, the largest I play on a regular basis.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/PianoPlayer88Key/PianoHandStretch/photo#5193132073662131186"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/PianoPlayer88Key/SBG2G0pRq_I/AAAAAAAAAYQ/9MIzFMY8IPY/s640/Piano_Hand_Stretch_10th.JPG" /></a>
(White to white is easier than white to black, but I can do some white to black. One of the hardest for me though, of the white to black, is C# to F separated by an octave+.)

Just for fun, I took this pic of me attempting a 12th. I have to press down the one key with one finger, use a finger on my other hand to press the other key, and SSTTRREETTCCHH my thumb to grab onto the corner of the other key.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/PianoPlayer88Key/PianoHandStretch/photo#5193132150971542546"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/PianoPlayer88Key/SBG2LUpRrBI/AAAAAAAAAYo/dXZJE0i9UYM/s640/Piano_Hand_Stretch_12th.JPG" /></a>

That's my old upright that has a conventional size keyboard. If it weren't for the fact that I'm looking for another upright on a less-than-$500 budget AND the fact that David Steinbuhler said in an earlier post that he doesn't retrofit into just any upright, I'd consider getting it installed into either a 1950s Baldwin Hamilton, or a 147cm/58" or taller upright.

FWIW, on the cheap 2-3 octave toy keyboards that Casio & Yamaha have made (the ones designed for kids with narrow & small keys) I can reach a 13th fairly easily, and a 14th with a bit of a stretch. I suspect I could reach a 15th with a similar stretch to what I did with the 12th on my full-size-keyboard piano.

So what you need is a bunch of tuning jobs to pay for the best Charles Walters vertial console with a small keyboard. Then you could quit dreaming and play 10ths and 12ths easily. And have a much better piano to boot. Even play 14ths in your edge playing way which I have used... can't do it very fast though.

Actually, I'd rather have it installed in a Baldwin Hamilton (one of the older ones - pre-1960).

oh well... wishful thinking...

88 key..i did just what you did..I didn't consider
that an easy 10th..that's why I said a 9th comfortably.. I think our hands are of a similar size..which I believe is large for me,I'm only a 5'5 adult... Bob

I'm about 5'11" to 6'0" or so - haven't measured recently though. :p

I guess my hands are too small to comfortably play 15ths, though.

When that means that I had to travel to David, Charles Walter, or SMU then I'm out of luck. They are all so remote, sigh...

So doremi. I guess that you need to get in touch with David and see where you can find a university or individual who has it. Where do you live? David does send out full sized cardboard keyboard in the two sizes. They are fun to play with.

I never know how a pianist will react when they actually experience the different keyboard sizes. At the 2004 MTNA convention the man with the largest hand, measuring 10.2 inches, absolutely loved the 15/16 keyboard saying for the first time he felt at home at the piano. And then there was a piano teacher with an average female hand of less than 8 inches who preferred to have just a little change in keyboard size. She struggles with pain and strain and can only play for about 30 minutes on the conventional keyboard before she has to stop due to pain. She came to Titusville and played all weekend on the smaller keyboards pain free. In the end she chose the 15/16 as the jump to this size keyboard was not too great but it did relieve her pain and strain.

Generally, if pianists have hand spans of 8 inches or less they are very comfortable on the 7/8 keyboard. This includes most women. At universities around the world, 70 to 80 percent of the students studying piano are female and in my view they struggle to learn their repertoire on instruments that no not fit their hands. I believe there is a crying need for the world to adopt the 7/8 size keyboard and level the playing field and then in a perfect world there is a need for the 15/16 as well.