Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP11 black key noise?

I finally just took delivery of a replacement MP11, after the first one arrived with some dents around the "MP11" text on the back, as well as a disturbing toxic smell.

The replacement actually has 2-3 much smaller dings in the same area, but they're so subtle that you can't feel them, and I think they're only visible if the light catches them just right. This one also has the same smell, but it seems a little less intense, so I'll assume that will dissipate over time. I'm willing to live with these minor faults.

However, I'm concerned about the "acoustic noise" coming from the black keys, after you release them and they bounce up and hit whatever it is they hit. The first octave's worth of black keys (or at least the first few keys) are reasonably quiet, but after that, every single one makes a fairly loud hollow thud as they bounce up. There may be some slight variation among them, but they're all pretty similar-sounding.

All of the white keys are nice and quiet.

Note that the black keys make this sound even if you press and hold the key, and then simply release it -- it doesn't only happen when striking a staccato note, although of course that makes it even worse.

The sound is loud enough to be heard in quiet room, wearing closed headphones. Now, I realize that key noise is often an issue with DPs, although Kawai in general is supposed to be among the quieter ones. However, although I only had the first MP11 for a day before returning it, I'm 99.9% certain that none of the keys were as loud as this -- I definitely would have noticed that.

All this is to say: is there any kind of simple user adjustment that might rectify this? The prospect of having to return this second MP11 is daunting and depressing, whether or not I have to wait another month for another one to come in.

Any advice from you guys (and James) is certainly appreciated. I figured I'd ask here, before contacting Sweetwater to say I received another bad MP11.

How long have you had this new MP11? Is the room it's in relatively steady in humidity levels and temperature? Since this is a wood action we're dealing with, that has to come into consideration that it's been jostled about in transit (maybe in the back of a hot truck) and may need some time to get used to the new room like anything made with wood would need to do.

Keep playing it and do your best to keep humidity levels steady (especially with changing seasons) and see how it is after a week.

I say this because over the summer at my house in WI, we do not have central air and humidity was all over the place. I did notice that high humidity days did effect the action a bit, and then in a few days it would go away. I'm accustomed to this behavior in acoustics, so I think it's to be expected, but if it stays this way after a week with yours, it may be defective.

Thanks for your response. Well, I hadn't thought about that, and it's true that it spent the weekend in FedEx's Miami warehouse (which if not climate-controlled, was definitely hot and humid). Now it's in air conditioning and will remain so, but I've only had it for 3 hours.

I'd love to think it's as simple as that. However, not only are the white keys quiet, but like I said, most of the first octave of black keys are quiet too. So I guess your theory is still possible, though I would have figured there'd be a little more consistency in how all of the black keys respond and sound.

My urgency in resolving this is simply that I had to wait almost a month for this replacement MP11, and the next available one at Sweetwater is at least 2 weeks away, and possibly they can reserve that for me if it's not already spoken for, but even if so, another week's wait and someone might grab it. So every day I wait for it to possibly acclimate, I might be adding weeks onto getting a replacement.

In the meantime, I shot a brief video of the issue, which I'm uploading to an unlisted YouTube page, in anticipation of calling Kawai US this afternoon for their advice, before I call Sweetwater to say if it needs to be replaced.

I'll post the link to the video here once it's ready, for whatever that's worth.

I just spoke with Alan at Kawai US. He did confirm that his MP11 has almost silent white keys but louder black keys. However, he watched my video and said my black keys do seem louder than his, plus he's concerned that my lowest octave is almost silent and then the black keys get louder, whereas his exhibits the opposite pattern, which he said makes more sense, in terms of the different key weights. He also tried some console DP's, as opposed to MP's, and found that the black keys were as quiet as the white ones.

Unfortunately, their hardware tech, Juan, is out today, so he's really going to be the one to weight in on this.

Alan didn't think climate was a likely explanation, since he assumes that would probably cause swelling and sticky keys if it was a factor.

The video is here:

http://youtu.be/P3jnlWApYCw

On acoustics, humidity could make just one key stand out. It does depend on the sound (I'm not able to really listen well at an airport), but humidity can cause screws to loosen/tighten which doesn't make a key stick but can make it noisy. I had this happen on my MP11, like I said, it was just a couple of keys (white ones, I think), but it went away after a bit.

Worth checking into with Juan, for sure. I hope it's an easy fix!

rungabic, I'm sorry to read that your replacement MP11 has arrived with this issue.

I've watched the video a couple of times, and while close-up recordings such as this do tend to emphasise any characteristics, there is clearly a difference in volume between the first black notes played and the later black notes.

I'm hopeful that Alan and Juan will help you to resolve the issue, whatever the cause might be - even if this ultimately means returning the instrument to the retailer.

Kind regards,
James
x

I watched the video, and that's not normal. Looks like you've been sent another lemon. Bad luck!

My guess would be that the noise comes from the middle of the keys hitting the casing as it rebounds. Somehow the casing has become deformed or improperly positioned. I doubt it's something you can fix yourself without taking it to pieces. Send it back.

"Fool me once, shame on... you. Fool me twice... you can't get fooled again," as a wise man once said.

I watched your video a couple times and then checked my MP11. On mine, the keys are all very quiet on the release, with no noticeable difference between the white and black keys. When pressing the keys down, the blacks are slightly louder than the whites, but both are so quiet that I never noticed this before. Altogether, the action is very quiet.

Yours has a very serious defect. I doubt if it's going to be possible to fix in any acceptable way, and it would probably be best not to even try to work with such a lemon. I agree with lolatu. Return it and don't settle for anything less than the instrument you paid for.

Thanks, guys. Not what I wanted to hear, but exactly what I suspected. So now, another 2-4 week wait most likely, and the specter of the next one being dented, smelling toxic, having funky key(s), or some new fault. Frustrating and depressing...

I agree, and my sympathies are with you. As for the toxic smell, that too is unacceptable in my view. I am very sensitive to such smells, and I can assure you my MP11 had none. I think we discussed this before, but I would think this would also be grounds for rejecting the instrument. But the noisy key issue is much worse.

Though it might not be much fun to play the instrument with the keys being so noisy -- and the defect may affect the operation of the action in ways other than just the noise -- you might ask Sweetwater if you can keep the instrument until they have a replacement for you, then do the exchange where your current instrument is picked up when the new one is delivered. That way you won't be without an instrument while you wait.

As this is the second lemon you've received -- and they have not been minor issues -- it might be the least they could do. Besides, they can't resell the instrument you have in the condition it's in anyway. Sweetwater is a pretty good retailer in my experience and might -- should -- make some goodwill gesture to help you.

Considering that the Kawai MP11 is advertised as a top
of the line product (approx. EUR 2000, USD 3000)
and that the defect is documented beyond every doubt,
I wounder why Kawai / Sweetwater representatives are still only discussing this?

IMO the appropriate way forward would be to quickly ship to you 2 new units for
you to choose from, as the quality problems are this big.

And on top of that, if they are out of stock, they could offer you stage piano
of another brand as compensation in the meantime.

Actually, the "delay" is of my choosing, since I was hoping against hope that maybe it could be resolved with some simple adjustment.

However, based on the feedback I received here, today I'm going to either process yet another swap with Sweetwater, or directly with Kawai -- whoever thinks they can get me a new MP11 fastest and/or with less shipping from point to point (just in case hidden shipping damage is a factor).

This is interesting to me. Would the wood parts of an action like the GF or RM3II be affected much by a very arid climate like I live in where we get into sustained periods of less than 10% humidity and 30C temperature swings ? It looks like just the key is wood but that includes direct contact with a few other parts in the action.

It looks like the kawai shigeru action core isn't wood, just the keys and hammers...however the action bed on that one is also wood...

The old clavinova I have is all plastic and has definitely stable.

I would not worry about dryness. I assume that inside your house there are no 30C temperature differences,
and to counter long periods of low humidity you can place a humidifyer or some plants in your piano room.

IIRC some dryness would not significantly affect the wooden mechanics, but more so the stability of
the tuning pins and the function of the sound board. All parts a digital piano normally would not have.

It is much harder to cope with high humidity, e.g. swelling felts, corrosion on metals and electronics.

Thx. Humidification is always a huge problem here. The weather is nice enough to keep windows open a lot. For stringed instruments I will only myself buy laminate. Guitar/ukulele repair shops have good business repairing cracks and failed joints.

So...after another long month of waiting, I took delivery of my THIRD MP11 yesterday. Things didn't start well, when FedEx left it sitting on the doorstep, with no signature having been required (crazy). Then it got worse when I arrived home and saw that Sweetwater had NOT double boxed it like they had the first two time -- I was absolutely shocked. Then it got worse when I saw a huge gash torn out of the box, right above where the keybed was. However, whatever did that apparently didn't penetrate down to the piano, and I saw no evidence of any exterior physical damage to the MP11 itself.

Now on to the status of the keys:

1. All of the white keys are quiet, both on the downstroke and on the release.

2. The black keys, however, are basically the same as the last one I had, except in the reverse direction. By which I mean this time, the highest octave's worth of black keys are very quiet when released (much like all of the white keys), but all of the rest of the black keys make a hollow-sounding "thunk" when released, and it's probably loudest around the middle section of the keyboard.

So, now I'm in a bit of a dilemma, because on the one hand, after all this hassle and all this excruciating waiting, I don't want to feel like I'm "settling" for something imperfect. On the other hand, I'm so worn down and so want to get on with this and start LEARNING HOW TO PLAY, that I'm trying to convince myself that it's not so bad and that any thunks will probably really only be heard if I'm playing through speakers (or maybe even headphones), at fairly low volumes. Honestly, they're not loud as heck, but I can certainly tell they make a sound when released.

Yet just when I convince myself that maybe this is simply how all MP11s are (and that also, real acoustic pianos can be "noisy" too), I re-read this thread, where a couple people watched my last video and said my MP11 was "severely defective" or that their MP11 black keys are "just as quiet as the white ones."

I also recall my phone conversation with Alan at Kawai USA, who watched my previous video, checked out his own MP11 and told me that on his board, the black keys were definitely louder than the white keys overall, but he was more concerned that most of my black keys were "loud" on the release, while a small number of them were actually quiet. He also added that due to the different key weightings, he might have expected that my highest octave black keys should have been quieter, if there was any difference...now with this third MP11, that's actually the case, but I still don't know if this is "OK."

Finally, I should note that being a rank amateur player (by which I mean I don't know how to play AT ALL yet -- I bought the MP11 to learn), I've been evaluating these key noises very "clinically," by which I mean simply testing the downstroke and the release of each and every key, note by note. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't have the luxury of fluidly playing the piano, in order to see whether the noises (or even the feel) is normal or abnormal in the context in which it really counts.

Any advice for a very weary forum member who wants to stop obsessing and start enjoying already?

P.S. -- To add insult to injury, Sweetwater didn't put any candy in the box, and it was delivered on Halloween no less! (Although possibly the candy fell out, through the enormous gash in the box...)

All pianos and DP make some noise from the key action. Some more than others. Some people are less tolerant than others of this noise especially with a DP. I have played an MP11, but not your one(s) and the one I played was within what I would consider normal, or acceptable, even for the (quite high IMHO) price.

Do you have a teacher, or piano playing friend who can advise you whether *they* would consider the noise from your MP11 to be normal. After that you can make a further decision as to whether it is acceptable to you.

Another option would be to get over to a store, piano or music selling DP's. Play some scales up and down, one finger is fine, and get a comparison point.

rungabic,
Maybe you could post a video here showing the difference, there are a lot of folk here that have MP11's, maybe some of them could chime in and let you know if the noise is normal or not. it won't be the same as physically being there (microphone placement, computer speaker volume, etc... can exaggerate the effect). But they might be able to get a sense of the change in loudness from one part of the keybed to the other...

Anyway, might be worth a shot.

- I'd try and ignore the problem for a while and see if you can get stuck into some serious work on your DP. You've got until the warranty expires to get it sorted out so it's not urgent. Maybe someone else will pipe up with the same problem then manage to get it easily sorted out (or not!) - that'll give you an idea of whether it's worth pursuing.

Hi Rungabic

Ok I think my MP11 has the same thunk (mid section more pronounced) but I'm going to chalk it up to the action inside and the long keys. Never going to call it an issue. This is my first digital piano ever too. I think the thunk actually adds to the authenticity of the instrument. I have played with the keys on my acoustic that does not have a silent mode. There is a thunk with the sound. We have to choose to hear the sound. I know that the speakers do not transmit the thunk. Our headphones and recording won't transmit the thunk either.

I recently heard a clarinet and oboe ensemble piece on classical radio. I was delighted to hear their key action flopping around on the recording. I had never heard this! I knew this was not synthesizer music or muzac! This was real!!

I'm very happy with the action of the MP11. I am trying to convince you to be happy too. Make sure you crank up your speakers enough to drown out the thunk or put on headphones and get busy!

There is more than a lifetime of music to learn. I am intermediate, but I'm sure even the Advanced pianists have more pieces they want to learn than there is lifetime left to learn them. Seize the day. We have the state-of-the-art instrument for this price range. I'm so glad I found this forum and this instrument.