Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Is the Keyboard Technique for Jazz and Classical the same?

While it's true that jazz pianists don't often play melodies with the L.H., some jazz bass patterns are quite challenging.

For example, "stride" piano involves the L.H. jumping across two or three octaves, often keeping the beat steady as the R.H. syncopates (as in ragtime). And L.H. boogie-woogie patterns are difficult enough on their own, before adding the R.H. melody.

I totally disagree that there is no "lilt"
or "hitch" in classical music. This in fact
is the essence of all music and what
differentiates it from, say, the quasi-rythmic
noise that a stamping press makes in a factory.

Take, for example, the Minute Waltz. In the
first measure you have an Ab quarter and then
G Ab C Bb eighths. You can play it evenly, like
a machine, but there is actually a slight
"lilt" or "hitch" where there is a rise and fall
pitch, the C. This is fundamental musical
technique and is univeral in music,
whatever the style.

The "lilt" is different in jazz phrasing than the "lilt" in classical. It's a swing in jazz.

piano technique is piano technique is piano technique. What style of music you play, and what types of sounds you get out of the intstrument are a very different matter.

Oscar Peterson and Glenn Gould had a very similar, if not identical approach to the physicality of playing the instrument.
It may not look the same to you but it is.

Being a classically trained pianist and also having learned to improvise over many years, of course classical piano technique can give you speed, expression, and power for playing jazz. That being said, jazz is mainly improvised, which means the hand can move in any direction at any time. I would advise thinking of balanced hand position fingerings for jazz piano technique that would help you to move quickly in any direction. Personally I've devised fingerings for the major and minor blues and pentatonic scales to acheive this.

Keith
http://www.keithphillips.net
http://www.keithphillips.net/AdvancedPianoSecrets.htm
http://www.freepianoresources.com

Timing and accenting are parts of technique requiring a learned muscle control. The timing and accenting in jazz are very different than in classical.

The question of the presence or absence of a specific jazz piano technique originated long ago - together with another question: "Is there a special jazz harmony, if in jazz is used chords borrowed from classical music ?" Since then , the question of jazz harmony was finally settled, and she took pride of place in an academic framework .
With piano technique that has not happened yet, because - in contrast to the harmony - involved in it piano teachers , who are not aware the specifics of jazz performance and can not be compared.
Even when we talk about the art of piano of Grieg compared with Mozart, we are referring to the historical changes in the approach to the piano, that create the inevitable differences, and now someone wants to convince us that between the technique of classical and jazz piano difference does not exist!
As can be seen, is not always clear what is attributed to piano technique. Keyboard of jazz and classical piano the same, scales in jazz and classical are the same,chord technique is the same, the same arpeggios. However, the sound and the sound production is quite different - the aesthetics of sound is not based on the Italian bel canto, but on American scat singing; there ghosts notes that do not exist in the classical; basis technique is not legato - as in the classics, but non legato; deep key punch down confronts the with a bottom, brings to general piano sound element of drumming ; is there articulation and accentuation of swing, which also does not exist in classics .
The difference in the technique of playing the piano can be seen, if we judge by the playing movements . This can be easily verified by looking at the hands of a pianist in the TV without hearing the sound; movements in jazz is always different. You can even compare when K. Jarrett played jazz or Mozart concerto; can then be understood with the eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1o1Hwpo8Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuMzOCpQRt0

However, aforesaid does not negate the need to study classical piano; this instrument was created for baroque and classical music. Classical piano base is the best platform for learning jazz pianism.

[quote=jazzwee]As a jazz student that has studied technique with a classical teacher, I'm noticing some differences.

I've learned classical technique from the arm weight/relaxation school. The immediate impact of this training was I lost my swing feel.

. [/quote]


This is an interesting case. If You own a swing feel , You will not lose it under any circumstances. Maybe You have learned swing as a kind of finger technique (which is not), and with its change lost the ability to perform swing . Something like that, as I remember, it was Andre Previn, who played on jam in Leningrad in 1969 - after a long break, how he played jazz. In his performance was missing absolutely swing feel .

[quote=Ken.]if I take jazz piano lessons would the keyboard technique be applicable to classical, or are other keyboard techniques necessary for classical?

For example, if I decide to practice a classical piece would I be able to work out the fingerings etc based on my jazz piano lessons?

[/quote]

Ken,

Playing the piano is playing the piano and styles have all kinds of nuances. But you're looking for skills that you hope have some transferability.

So to that goal: Find a teacher who can help you with that–which is how to take lessons learned in one domain (or style) and apply them to another. They're out there. You'll probably find along the way that there's a lot more to technique–tons and heaps more–than issues of fingering about which you asked.

To give two interesting examples: Abbey Whiteside, an influential teacher on the classical side of things has written that fingerings really aren't the main point at all–on the jazz side of things Barry Harris, also a great teacher, has said exactly the same.

But neither of those points of view mean AW and BH have a monopoly on the answer. Because they don't.

The thing is technique–the acquisition of efficient technique–goes way past fingers alone. The "way past" of it includes using the mechanisms of the body (physical and mental) to efficiently control the physical mechanisms of the piano.

Find the right teacher, develop an efficient technique, and everything else will follow. Including answers to "which fingers" to use and when to use them.

You realize that this thread has been dormant for 6 1/2 years? Many of the posters have long since departed PW. Often, it's better to begin a new thread on a topic, even if it's been visited before.

Thanks John for pointing out what I now see is obvious. It's not the first time I've missed a date, Probably it won't be the last time. In any case, regardless of the age of the thread, Nahum made some good contributions earlier today. And the thread will show up in searches on PW. So things here began several years ago but they're worth reading/revisiting now. ... Ummmm ... You could follow up on your own advice and start a new thread on the same topic. Would be interesting to see if/how anyone's views, including the OP's, have changed.

Mark, it's not so much a criticism as a realization that your contributions are going to reach an entirely different audience then intended. We have Phoenix threads all the time; sometimes it makes sense to continue the thread, other times not. My sense was that Nahum didn't realize the age of the thread.

I surely seen date of last reply here; however, this issue   interest to many pianists; and it must be lighted from different angles, not just from the almost religious belief . This question has always taken me as a teacher of jazz piano; ;   especially since my past includes 13 years of study viola and piano in academic frame work , 11 years in chamber and symphony orchestras and 33 years of teaching jazz piano at Jazz department of the Academy of Music .
In addition to this I would like to hear from jazzwee, how he solved his problem.

I haven't seen jazzwee in a very long time. You might try sending him a private message (PM).

Thanks, John v.d.Brook !

I have encountered many times with cases where the pianist learns a piece first as a completely perfect classic , and then introduces an element of swing . This gives very good results.

Nahum, you might be interested in Drumgenius . It's a great app (runs on iOS and Android) for practicing and exploring different jazz feels–and swing in particular. I recommend it for all sorts of things: play Charlie Parker or other transcriptions, Bach, sightread, improvise, play scales with it. How anyone uses it comes down to being creative with it and what you'd like to accomplish.

I'm not affiliated with it in any way except that I'll always mention it as a great tool for practicing.

Thanks, Mark, very interesting, and it sounds good!