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#2332526 - 09/30/14 09:34 AM How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have?
Giancarlo Robles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 60
Loc: San Juan, Puerto Rico
I was wondering if there is a resource somewhere of the various actions Kawai has currently and in the past and the order of realism in the actions (from least to most realistic or least to most expensive).

It seems like there are a lot of actions and each has their own features so a list of them would be interesting to have for a sort of "history of Kawai actions" and how every new action gets closer to replicating a real acoustic. Just a thought that came to my head right now smile
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-350 | CS-67 Stand | SP-33 Pedal Unit | Audio Technica M40x Monitor Headphones | Galaxy Instruments Vintage D and Grand Piano Collection (Steinway, Bosendorfer Vienna Grand Imperial and Bluthner German Baby Grand) VSTs

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#2332570 - 09/30/14 11:36 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
Pete14 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 293
2.

A folded plastic action, and a pivot-based wooden action.

Everything else is a slight improvement (debatable) on the previous iteration: Longer keys, three sensors vs. 2, synthetic ivory etc.

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#2332575 - 09/30/14 11:49 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
bnolsen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 186
Loc: Colorado
kawaius.com lists the actions if you click on them.

These ones seem like the ones currently sold on the internet or in showrooms:

RHII - mp7, es7, cn24, cn34
RHIII - cn25, cn35
AHAIV-F es100, cl26, kdp90

RM3II - vpc1
GF mp11, ca65, ca95


Edited by bnolsen (09/30/14 11:57 AM)

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#2332579 - 09/30/14 11:56 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
Giancarlo Robles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 60
Loc: San Juan, Puerto Rico
So it really does not make that much of a difference the various actions they've made? For example, they do have Responsive Hammer action I, II, and III. Each of them must have better features with each new iteration. I think they also have a Grand Piano action. But there are so many it's kinda hard to keep track. I know every action must be different plus there is also the factor of wood vs plastic. My point is that it would be a good idea to list them all maybe from simplest action to most complex and also depending on the material of the keys (plastic vs wood), if they have synthetic ivory or not, details like that IMO changes the action from one to the next.
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#2332829 - 10/01/14 01:15 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9692
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Giancarlo, bnolsen's list is correct, however I believe the following table should provide additional information that addresses your queries.


* Optional Let-off refers to the fact that some models could share the same keyboard action, but include/exclude let-off.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2364293 - Yesterday at 03:55 PM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Kawai James]
blackspaven Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 99
Coming from a CN24, and only a basic knowledge of playing uprights, what difference exactly does the counterweighting on all keys do on the newer RH3 over the RH2 then?

Don't worry, just found the follwing... http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2323243/New_Kawai_DP_&_RH3_action_.html


Edited by blackspaven (Yesterday at 04:02 PM)

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#2364325 - Yesterday at 05:44 PM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: blackspaven]
Rolf Benz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/14
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By: blackspaven
Coming from a CN24, and only a basic knowledge of playing uprights, what difference exactly does the counterweighting on all keys do on the newer RH3 over the RH2 then?


Significant to not noticeable.
Sorry to be that enigmatic, but it is just my own experience. If you play either of both actions and you do not have much experience with grand piano actions you will most likely not miss anything. Or notice anything, to be more precise.

Just in direct comparison you *might* feel the difference. But it's more or less quite subtle and will usually only reveal its strengths to experienced players.

Don't worry, either the RH2 or RH3 will feel nice and capable, be it counterweight or not. You will have to develop quite advanced skills to notice the difference (and pay attention to it). For the time being, if I were you, I would not pay to much of attention to that feature. You should concentrate on how each action feels to your playing and how well it connects to your expectations.

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#2364517 - Today at 10:49 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Kawai James]
Marcos Daniel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 191
Loc: Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
James, I'm wondering what does exactly 'key length mean', is it the visible part of the key? does it refer to the whole key?
Thanks!

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#2364536 - Today at 11:36 AM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
Ben Boule Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 64
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Marcos it refers to the entire key, whether it is visible or not.

The longer the key the closer the leverage becomes to that of an acoustic.

All these things do matter.. the closer the action is to that of an acoustic the better off you are when you go from playing your digital to playing someone else's acoustic piano, particularly if you're a beginner... experienced players will have learned how to adapt, but we beginners don't have this sense yet.

If it wasn't for cost & portability all the digital pianos would have the most realistic action the manufacturer could design..

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#2364699 - Today at 07:16 PM Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9692
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Marcos, as Ben notes, the table above refers to the entire key.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2364708 - 37 minutes 13 seconds ago Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Ben Boule]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 567
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Ben Boule
The longer the key the closer the leverage becomes to that of an acoustic.

All these things do matter.. the closer the action is to that of an acoustic the better off you are when you go from playing your digital to playing someone else's acoustic piano, particularly if you're a beginner... experienced players will have learned how to adapt, but we beginners don't have this sense yet.

The pivot length (listed in a separate column) is the important one in determining the feel, or more specifically, how the force required varies with how far up the keys you play. I don't see how the key length is relevant. It's a bit naughty really, including that as a column, with the implication that longer is better. Moreover, the AHA/RH action is a completely different design to the AWA/GF, and doesn't need any more key length beyond the pivot, because the hammer is triggered on the near side. It could be argued that shorter is actually better, because it reduces the key's inertia and makes the whole assembly more compact and lighter.
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#2364710 - 33 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 567
Loc: UK
Another funny thing I noticed the other day is that acoustic piano technicians refer to all modern piano keyboards as being "plastic", as opposed to ivory, rather than "wooden", as Kawai uses for their digitals.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Pianoteq Stage / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2364715 - 19 minutes 36 seconds ago Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: lolatu]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3712
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: lolatu
It could be argued that shorter is actually better, because it reduces the key's inertia and makes the whole assembly more compact and lighter.

ahhh, no....

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#2364720 - 18 seconds ago Re: How many different actions do the Kawai digitals have? [Re: lolatu]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9692
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: lolatu
Another funny thing I noticed the other day is that acoustic piano technicians refer to all modern piano keyboards as being "plastic", as opposed to ivory, rather than "wooden", as Kawai uses for their digitals.


I don't believe you are comparing the same thing.

The key itself is made of wood, while the key surface is made from a composite plastic. This is true of most - if not all - acoustic piano actions and Kawai's wooden key digital piano actions.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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